RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: owenc on Sunday 28 October 12 10:38 GMT (UK)
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Hello, I have done this family tree before. But now, someone is asking for evidence.
I lost everything, so now I have to start over and I can see why they are looking for evidence.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Glenkeen/Ballyrogan/1520108/
There are no births in Henry for the whole of Northern Ireland in the period 1865. So he has given the wrong age.
Here is his will:
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx
From what I can see, I found a man who was born in 1874 and died in 1904 and that is how I connected him to Samuel henry of 1841 Garvagh 1st presbyterian.- This was on Emerald ancestors but I have no subscription anymore.
However, I would like this confirmed, as recently I have found a Hugh henry who was born in 1871 and died in 1904 in Coleraine.
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"...died in 1904 in Coleraine"
Do you have the death certificate or a newspaper announcement giving place of death as Coleraine? or are you assuming Coleraine because that's what is listed in the registration index? Ballyrogan townland comes under Coleraine registration district and Will Extract does not indicate he died anywhere else but Ballyrogan.
"Administration of the estate of Hugh Henry late of Ballyrogan Liseall Garvagh County Londonderry Farmer who died 25 June 1904 granted at Londonderry to Bridget Henry Widow"
Your previous Henry thread-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,484694.0.html
How on earth are you connecting Hugh Henry a Catholic living in Ballyrogan in 1901 with a Samuel Henry a Presbyterian who was alive in 1841 in the same approximate area? They are not the same family. Not at all surprising someone is questioning this.
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I think I found something on emerald ancestors. The way I made the link. I think was because Samuel was from garvagh and so was hugh, hugh was born in garvagh and he died in 1904.
And there is the possibility that he converted for the land. People do convert.
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The Henrys of Ballyrogan are and have always been Catholic. Hugh Henry of Ballyrogan is NOT connected to the Presbyterian Henrys in the area.
Instead of wildly trying to attach different Henrys in the area to each other please tell us exactly who or what you are trying to find so that we can help you find the correct information.
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And how do you know. Henry isn't really a catholic name.
I'm trying to find his father.
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What do you mean 'Henry isn't really a catholic name.'
There are 2985 Catholics with the surname Henry in the 1901 Irish census- and 438 of them are living in County Londonderry.
Instead of wildly trying to attach different Henrys in the area to each other please tell us exactly who or what you are trying to find so that we can help you find the correct information.
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I can't remember how I connected it I'm going to try and find the marriage stuff as I have a funny feeling that it says Samuel is the father on there. But I could be wrong.
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For the last time- exactly who are you looking for? (facts not speculation please)
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Owen,
I am slightly confused but see if any of this helps.
Hugh Henry was born in 1874 to Samuel Henry and Rachel Taylor who married in Macosquin Presbyterian Church in 1865. A Samuel Henry was Baptised in Garvagh Presbyterian Church in 1841. What appears to be the family are available in the 1901 and 1911 census, living in Ballinteer.
I have no way of determining if the two Samuels are the same man.
Regards
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Hi, I found that before.
But I need to find proof that hugh henry of garvagh who died in 1904 is the son of Samuel and rachel henry.
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Samuel Henry mentioned in 1841 list of First Garvagh Presbyterian Church was from Movenis (just outside Garvagh).
Hugh Henry, son of Samuel Henry & Rachel Taylor, ...
Eight children of Samuel Henry and Rachel Taylor baptised Macosquin Presbyterian Church 1866-1879. See box #19 of church microfilms at Coleraine Library.
I found out who they are, i forget about them ones lol. Thanks, but that wasn't what i was looking for i was trying to find out the birth and birth place of john henry samuel henrys father, can we do that or is that possible even lol?
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I am confused. Is it possible if one of you could go and find the marriage of hugh and bridget? Perhaps it will provide details of parents on there.
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Hi, I found that before.
But I need to find proof that hugh henry of garvagh who died in 1904 is the son of Samuel and rachel henry.
HUGH HENRY OF BALLYROGAN IS NOT THE SON OF SAMUEL AND RACHEL HENRY of BALLINTEER.
On the 24 Sept.2010 you said "Thanks, but that wasn't what i was looking for" when I gave details of Samuel & Rachel's family
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Ok.
I will wait to money and do it myself then.
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I am confused. Is it possible if one of you could go and find the marriage of hugh and bridget? Perhaps it will provide details of parents on there.
Marriage: Hugh Henry Apr./June 1891 Coleraine registration district volume 1 page 549- Bridget Higgins on same page.
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Hi,
Hugh and Bridget were married in Garvagh Roman Catholic Church. I have no access to the fathers' names.
Regards
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Ok thanks. I guess I'm going to have to order the death certificate to find his birth date and then tie it up from there.
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Death certificate will not list birthdate. It will show age at death as given by the informant and may not be accurate. Years ago people were not that concerned about such details and may would not have been sure exactly when they were born.
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So how am I going to find out then?
He doesn't give his correct age in the census anyway? There are no Hugh henrys born in 1865 at all in Northern Ireland.
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Civil registration of births started in 1864 and became compulsory in 1870. Therefore, he might have been born just before 1864, his birth not registered or registered as male (no Christian name chosen) or under a different Christian name.
The marriage certificate for Hugh Henry of Ballyrogan will hopefully show his father's name and occupation as well as Hugh's residence at the time of the marriage.
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Ok.
Well I have the document from Emerald ancestors and it says that the marriage is a cival marriage.
I will just order the certificate next week.
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Yes, it was a civil record (I posted the details earlier) but that doesn't mean that it didn't take place in a church (details also posted earlier).
Not sure if Emerald Ancestors will give full details (such as witnesses, occupations of couple and their fathers, exact residences).
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So what do you do if the marriage certificate doesn't have the father?
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Does this sound right? I did a bit of fixing about..
Hugh Henry M Bridget Higgins
1891 aged 20.
Hugh Henry
Died 25th June 1904 aged 33 (born 1871)
Hugh Henry
Born 1870 July
Rose ann Kelly and Hugh Henry
Trying to get it back further but no luck. Not even a will for his father.
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Why don't you order the Irish Civil Registration Marriage Certificate for the marriage of Hugh Henry (Snr) and Rosann Kelly in 1867?
I did a quick free search on the IFHF website and they were married in the Garvagh Registrar's District and this search also gives the fathers' names as James Henry and John Kelly. A search on Familysearch.org gives similar information, but you cannot beat getting a copy of the actual marriage registrar entry.
Hugh Henry Snr and Rosann Kelly also had another child (a baby sister to Hugh Jnr) either called Mary Anne or Mary Jane (per civil record) born and baptised in 1873 in Garvagh RC parish church.
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Why don't you order the Irish Civil Registration Marriage Certificate for the marriage of Hugh Henry (Snr) and Rosann Kelly in 1867?
I did a quick free search on the IFHF website and they were married in the Garvagh Registrar's District and this search also gives the fathers' names as James Henry and John Kelly. A search on Familysearch.org gives similar information, but you cannot beat getting a copy of the actual marriage registrar entry.
Hugh Henry Snr and Rosann Kelly also had another child (a baby sister to Hugh Jnr) either called Mary Anne or Mary Jane (per civil record) born and baptised in 1873 in Garvagh RC parish church.
I already have their marriage certificate and it doesn't give a father. I think its pretty obvious the birth in 1870 is him as the birth is in the church in boleran or however you spell it. What I am trying to do is find his father but I can't as the records don't go back that far.
There does not seem to much data on these Henry's from up there.
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I have found their marriage and it says its in Garvagh registrars district. ???
The marriage is in 1867 and the father is James Henry and that is all there is for that marriage. I am trying to get back further..
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Hi Owen
I have interloped into this post as the place names interest me but I am confused/intrigued as to what you are looking/fishing for. In date order, the collated info posted on this thread (working from most recent data date):
A Hugh Henry d. 1904 in Coleraine. Admon states "late of Ballyrogan, Liseall, Garvagh Co., Londonderry", farmer, widow (wife) Bridget. Catholic.
A Hugh Henry married a Bridget Higgins in 1891, civil registration Coleraine, Catholic Church marriage, Garvagh
A Hugh Henry b. 1871 or 1874.
Hugh Henry b. 1874. Baptised Presbyterian. Parents Samuel Henry and Rachel Taylor (who married in 1865, macosquin Presbyterian). Samuel and Rachel had 8 children, all baptised Presbyterian, macosquin). I think this Hugh Henry has been discarded as a possibility?
A Hugh Henry b. 1870. Parents Rose Ann and Hugh Henry. (Where? Garvagh? Assuming catholic baptism - refer collated info below)
A Hugh Henry married a Rosann Kelly 1867 Garvagh RC. Father of Hugh listed as James Henry. Father of Rosann listed as John Kelly. This Hugh and Rosanna Henry appear to have baptised a daughter (Mary Ann or Mary Jane) in 1873 Garvagh. Daughter Mary Ann/Mary Jane was baptised Catholic.
Do you have the dc for Hugh Henry who died in 1904? Is this the man you are trying to research?
Do you have mc for the Hugh Henry marriage to Bridget Higgins in 1891? Any father names listed?
Did Hugh and Bridget have any children? If so, when and where? Names of children might provide clues.
With clues from the above we might be able to sort through possible parents listed in this thread (and others) for your Hugh Henry....
Cocksie
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Hi Owen
I have interloped into this post as the place names interest me but I am confused/intrigued as to what you are looking/fishing for. In date order, the collated info posted on this thread (working from most recent data date):
A Hugh Henry d. 1904 in Coleraine. Admon states "late of Ballyrogan, Liseall, Garvagh Co., Londonderry", farmer, widow (wife) Bridget. Catholic.
A Hugh Henry married a Bridget Higgins in 1891, civil registration Coleraine, Catholic Church marriage, Garvagh
A Hugh Henry b. 1871 or 1874.
Hugh Henry b. 1874. Baptised Presbyterian. Parents Samuel Henry and Rachel Taylor (who married in 1865, macosquin Presbyterian). Samuel and Rachel had 8 children, all baptised Presbyterian, macosquin). I think this Hugh Henry has been discarded as a possibility?
A Hugh Henry b. 1870. Parents Rose Ann and Hugh Henry. (Where? Garvagh? Assuming catholic baptism - refer collated info below)
A Hugh Henry married a Rosann Kelly 1867 Garvagh RC. Father of Hugh listed as James Henry. Father of Rosann listed as John Kelly. This Hugh and Rosanna Henry appear to have baptised a daughter (Mary Ann or Mary Jane) in 1873 Garvagh. Daughter Mary Ann/Mary Jane was baptised Catholic.
Do you have the dc for Hugh Henry who died in 1904? Is this the man you are trying to research?
Do you have mc for the Hugh Henry marriage to Bridget Higgins in 1891? Any father names listed?
Did Hugh and Bridget have any children? If so, when and where? Names of children might provide clues.
With clues from the above we might be able to sort through possible parents listed in this thread (and others) for your Hugh Henry....
Cocksie
I'm just trying to make my way back. I can't find much on this Henry family from up there as they seem to quite isolated from the other families in the area.
But basically the way you have it is the correct way. I fiddled it up the last time by thinking that because Macosquin was only down the road that they would be connected but I guess not which is an easy mistake as I am not from Garvagh...
I don't think that catholic church has records that far back. I have looked at the wills and only found one or two wills from the area and the same thing on Emerald ancestors. Very little data on the family..
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Owen
I see you are at least on the same continent as the Hugh Henry you are researching. My irish ancestors left those shores a long time ago - pre irish civil registration, so I don't know much about irish researching post civil registration and am still learning (struggling) with Irish info available online pre 1840s.
However, it does appear to me that there would be info on your Hugh Henry who died in 1904.
What is his connection with yourself? (ie how do you know this Hugh is yours?)
I don't want to appear rude, but it would help if you could answer the questions I listed in my previous post), if not for myself, then for the other rootschatterers who have been trying to help:
1. Do you have the dc for Hugh Henry who died in 1904? What info does it list? The admon indicates he was married to a Bridget.
2. Did Hugh and Bridget have any children? If so, When? Where? Names? Do you have any bcs or info on these children? If so, what do info do bcs have?
Then we would have clues to establish/confirm/link the info on marriage of Hugh and Bridget (one possibility kindly posted here is the 1891 marriage of Hugh Henry and Bridget Higgins).
I think we should think of doing baby steps backwards rather than making giant leaps and incorrectly making assumed connections.
Am happy to help as learning how to access the irish data and information system available online will help me gain an understanding of how to do my own irish research. I am currently swamped trying to understand townlands, civil districts, catholic parish districts, 1922 fires burning up the public records etc - so any distraction from my own brick walls would be a good distraction.
Cocksie
Australia
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Owen
I see you are at least on the same continent as the Hugh Henry you are researching. My irish ancestors left those shores a long time ago - pre irish civil registration, so I don't know much about irish researching post civil registration and am still learning (struggling) with Irish info available online pre 1840s.
However, it does appear to me that there would be info on your Hugh Henry who died in 1904.
What is his connection with yourself? (ie how do you know this Hugh is yours?)
I don't want to appear rude, but it would help if you could answer the questions I listed in my previous post), if not for myself, then for the other rootschatterers who have been trying to help:
1. Do you have the dc for Hugh Henry who died in 1904? What info does it list? The admon indicates he was married to a Bridget.
2. Did Hugh and Bridget have any children? If so, When? Where? Names? Do you have any bcs or info on these children? If so, what do info do bcs have?
Then we would have clues to establish/confirm/link the info on marriage of Hugh and Bridget (one possibility kindly posted here is the 1891 marriage of Hugh Henry and Bridget Higgins).
I think we should think of doing baby steps backwards rather than making giant leaps and incorrectly making assumed connections.
Am happy to help as learning how to access the irish data and information system available online will help me gain an understanding of how to do my own irish research. I am currently swamped trying to understand townlands, civil districts, catholic parish districts, 1922 fires burning up the public records etc - so any distraction from my own brick walls would be a good distraction.
Cocksie
Australia
Well yes its my granny who was a Henry. But I am not and I don't know much about that family. I think this Hugh Henry is my gg grandfather. It is quite far back as I am a bit removed from that family.
I only have the marriage certificate.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Glenkeen/Ballyrogan/1520108/
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I found a death of a Hugh Henry at 82 in 1886
Perhaps that is his grandfather.
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Okely Dokely
1911 Hugh is allegedly 36 (b. abt 1875) a farmer, wife Bridget is 34 (b. abt 1877)
With 5 children living with them, Annie being the eldest age 10, so born about 1901.
Followed by Hugh, Richard, Catherine and Sarah.
All RC. Living in Ballyrogan (Glenkeen, Londonderry).
Do you know where Annie (the eldest) was born?
Given the info .... I am struggling to work out how/where the possible marriage in 1891 could work.
Hugh would only be 16, and Bridget only 14. Not impossible .... But ......
Secondly if marriage was in 1891 then where are the older children (ie born between 1891 and Annie in 1901(ish) in the 1911 census? ie are you thinking that the couple had no children for 10 years between a marriage in 1891 and 1901?
I can't see Hugh and Bridget Henry in 1901 census (thanks for the link, tremendous). So .... Am wondering is, perhaps they weren't married at time of 1901 census? Possibly married not long after and then had Annie very quickly?
Hey, when you say you have a marriage certificate - who's marriage? Your granny's? (Cos info on that might help) or the Henry and Bridget marriage in 1891?
Cocksie
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Hi cocksie,
this is a link to the 1901 census entry;
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Glenkeen/Ballyrogan/1520108/
if you go back to the 1911 entry a lucky mistake was made on the form. Bridget has filled in " the years married column" as married 20 years, then stroked out. This was only to be filled out for an ongoing marriage, bridget was a widow at this stage, so it gives a guide for a marriage as 1891.
Tony
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Okely Dokely
1911 Hugh is allegedly 36 (b. abt 1875) a farmer, wife Bridget is 34 (b. abt 1877)
With 5 children living with them, Annie being the eldest age 10, so born about 1901.
Followed by Hugh, Richard, Catherine and Sarah.
All RC. Living in Ballyrogan (Glenkeen, Londonderry).
Do you know where Annie (the eldest) was born?
Given the info .... I am struggling to work out how/where the possible marriage in 1891 could work.
Hugh would only be 16, and Bridget only 14. Not impossible .... But ......
Secondly if marriage was in 1891 then where are the older children (ie born between 1891 and Annie in 1901(ish) in the 1911 census? ie are you thinking that the couple had no children for 10 years between a marriage in 1891 and 1901?
I can't see Hugh and Bridget Henry in 1901 census (thanks for the link, tremendous). So .... Am wondering is, perhaps they weren't married at time of 1901 census? Possibly married not long after and then had Annie very quickly?
Hey, when you say you have a marriage certificate - who's marriage? Your granny's? (Cos info on that might help) or the Henry and Bridget marriage in 1891?
Cocksie
But that is them though because my granny used to talk about that one higgins and his age is wrong. In the marriage certificate it says hes 20.
And the marriage certificate is for the Hugh and Bridget. It just says the father is Hugh Henry and the mother Rose ann Kelly.
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Just found a death and a will at Ballyrogan so that is him.
James Henry
1880 aged 84. Closest baptism is Garvagh 1st Presbyterian in 1796 but just gonna ignore that one.
Gonna try and see if I can find some other stuff on him
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Am with you now - took me a while to catch up but right with you now.
You've got Bridget, widow and the five kids in 1911
You've got Hugh then dead in 1904, admon citing his widow Bridget
You've got the family in 1901
You've got the marriage of Hugh and Bridget Higgins in 1891, citing father of Hugh as Hugh and mother as rose Ann Kelly.
You've found the birth/baptism of Hugh Henry in 1870, (where? What place?) father Hugh Henry and mother rose Ann Kelly. Plus a sibling sister Mary Ann or Mary Jane in 1873.
And you've also got marriage of Hugh Henry and rose Ann Kelly 1867 Garvagh. This lists father of Hugh as James Henry (died 1880 aged 84 at Ballyrogan with will).
Hence you're looking for James Henry b. about 1796 ish?
Plus the baptism of Hugh, James Henry's son - the Hugh who married Rose Ann Kelly in 1867. Or have you found this already?
Cocksie
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Am with you now - took me a while to catch up but right with you now.
You've got Bridget, widow and the five kids in 1911
You've got Hugh then dead in 1904, admon citing his widow Bridget
You've got the family in 1901
You've got the marriage of Hugh and Bridget Higgins in 1891, citing father of Hugh as Hugh and mother as rose Ann Kelly.
You've found the birth/baptism of Hugh Henry in 1870, (where? What place?) father Hugh Henry and mother rose Ann Kelly. Plus a sibling sister Mary Ann or Mary Jane in 1873.
And you've also got marriage of Hugh Henry and rose Ann Kelly 1867 Garvagh. This lists father of Hugh as James Henry (died 1880 aged 84 at Ballyrogan with will).
Hence you're looking for James Henry b. about 1796 ish?
Plus the baptism of Hugh, James Henry's son - the Hugh who married Rose Ann Kelly in 1867. Or have you found this already?
Cocksie
Yeah...that is it.
I paid for the GRONI site and found all of this on there. It is better than Emerald ancestors if you have details. It said the baptism took place in 1870 in Errigal Catholic church.
I am trying to find the baptism but I can't find it. I found a baptism in 1796 but that is Presbyterian (Garvagh 1st) so I am hesitant. I suppose it is possible but theres no way of me tying that down...