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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dione on Sunday 06 January 08 04:14 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the marriage and births of:
George Forbes and his wife Eleanor Craggs.
1841 Census -Stamford ,Embleton.
George Forbes age 50 Ag Laborer
Eleanor wife age 55
Mary 15
Jane 14
Thomas 11
Have Forbes on all census to 1901.
Information from Bamburgh Parish reg.1810
Birth James Forbes 11/2/1810 2nd child and son -parents George Forbes of Fowberry husbandman native of Hartburn in the parish of Hartburn by his wife Eleanor Craggs native of Chatton.
Hope this info is helpful.
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dione,
So where have you already looked for their marriage and baptisms ?
What religious denomination were they ?
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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Hi Micheal,
I have checked for their marriage and baptism in the following:
Chatton Parish registers
Bamburgh " "
Hartburn " "
Embleton,Rennington and Rock Parish registers.
I have no idea what their religion was. I have only checked C of E.
George and Eleanor had 11 children. I can't find the birth of their first born but I have found all others. The birth place for all the children is given as Bamburgh.
I estimate George Forbes birth as being approx 1788 and Eleanor as approx 1786.
Hope this is a help.
Dione.
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Belford West Street Presbyterian register has the baptism of John son of George & Eleanor Forbes of Belford town & parish, born 23 November 1807, baptised 25 December 1807.
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Many thanks for that great piece of information.
Regards Dione.
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Dione,
That was a tasty bit of info provided by Jora. So a Presbyterian baptism indicates their chosen religion !
Now onto the marriage laws of England ( and Wales).
The ONLY legal way to marry was in a "Parish" church
(Church of England/Anglican).
( Jewish folk and Quakers were except from this legislation)
So Presbyterians ( and other "non-conformists") had the choice of ..
a) just not marrying, b) marrying in the "Church of England", or
c) marrying outside of England - e.g. Scotland.
This restrictive legislation was withdrawn fro July 1837, when marriages were allowed in any place of worship or a Register Office.
So it would appear that you have exhausted the possible C of E venues for their marriage.... that leaves "no marriage" or Scotland !
Google for "irreglar marriages", "cross-border marriages",
"Lamberton Toll" , Coldstream Bridge",
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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Hi Micheal,
I hadn't had a look in the Belford reg.before I would presume that Jora would have had a look for the marriage or births when discovering the birth of John Forbes.I am a little curious as to why one child is baptised in a Presbyterian church when all the other children were baptised C of E.
Regards Dione.
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There are no marriages recorded in the Belford Presbyterian registers, as Michael explained it was only legal to marry in the Church of England.
If George & Eleanor married in the area of Chatton/Belford, you ought to check Belford Parish registers first. You have checked Bamburgh so I think you should also check Lowick, Wooler, Kyloe and Doddington as outside chances, maybe even Holy Island and Chillingham.
If they went to Scotland and married in a Presbyterian church there, try Mordington and Coldstream registers.
However, I am afraid the most likely probability is that they married irregularly at Lamberton Toll or Coldstream Bridge or any of the other places where marriages took place on the border, in which case your chances of finding a record is minimal!
You have now found out what a minefield you have wandered into here!
Happy hunting,
Jora
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Hi Jora,
I seem to step from one mine field to another with my family research. I will most certainly take on board all you have given me to think about. Trouble is I live on a farm in a rural area of Victoria, Australia and it takes me quite a while to be able to get to the Genealogy place in Melbourne to which I belong and is about a 3 hour drive for me.
I am not overly concerned as to whether George and Eleanor were married or not it was just a means for me to find out who their parents were as I have no idea.Also I want to know their birth dates.
Thank you so very much for all your help and advise.
Regards Dione.
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Wooler West Street Presbyterian baptisms -
24 September 1784 - Eleanor daughter of James Craig & Eleanor his wife of Chatton Parish, born at Chatton 17 September 1784.
If you think this may be your Eleanor, I will send you the rest of the family baptisms from this register.
Jora
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Hi Jora,
You are very quick with your research. I am only taking Eleanor's age from the 1851 Census which is approx 1786. I will live in hope that you have found her for me.Chatton is the right Parish.
She has named her first born daughter Eleanor and her second born son is James if that is anything to go on.
Regards Dione.
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Cheers Dione, so your folk were Presbyterian, likely Scottish and by the name, likely from Aberdeenshire. The northeast of Scotland's farming was very progressive at that time so guys from there would be sought after, he was more likely, than his southern buddies, to be literate also.
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I am still looking. The best detail is on the post dated Saturday 10 January 09. After nearly four years I am still no further forward.
Dione
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Hi dione
I am a regular visitor to Woodhorn archives and don't mind doing the odd look up but need to clarify -
Are you still looking for George Forbes who isn't in Hartburn where he says he should be? Where else have you tried in the last 4 years?
Christine
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hi Christine
I really should have brought forward the following link instead of the one I did.It explains a bit more that I had found out.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,276927.0.html
Moderator Comment: recent replies merged with old topic.
As far as searching Hartburn and surrounding parishes and any others I felt I needed to I purchased microfiche of Parish Register transcript from Northfiche.
Alnwick Bamburgh (where most of the children were born) Berwick
Bolam Chatton (where I find the info on Eleanor) Chillingham
Doddington Ellingham Elsdon Hartburn Netherwitton Norham
Rennington
I have also been through the films that the LDS have on Hartburn and Bamburgh.
On the Hartburn film the is a John Forbus marrying an Isabel Purdey(Prudey)27 Nov 1764 Hartburn. there were 4 children that I could find but no George.
John b23 Jan 1766 He died.
William 17 Mar 1768
John 18 Jun 1769
Isabel 19 Jan 1771 and that is all I could find.The family seems to follow a bit of a naming pattern.So I felt that if so Georges Father would be John and Mother Isabell
I hope this paints a clearer picture. I still can't find the marriage of George and Eleanor. I did try the border marriages. I am not so concerned with the marriage although that would be a bonus I would just like to find George's birth.
Dione
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Hi dione
I did read this thread yesterday.
I'm thinking Meldon and Mitford, possibly Bolam, as being neighbouring parishes where his baptism might be. Hartburn consists of loads of villages and some are likely to have been nearer to another parish church. Assuming, of course, that he's right about being born in Hartburn ;D
Christine
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Hi Christine
Apart from the microfiche I have bought I have also trawled through the LDS Pilotsearch Parish registers quite before they revamped their site. the following are the ones I have searched.
Embleton Wooler (1780-1794 missing) Mitford Kirkwhelpington
Rothbury Lucker.
Of course on that site I feel it is always easy to miss things. I will have a look at Meldon tonight.
Dione
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Whoops Meldon isn't online.
Dione
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The Bishop's transcripts are a great resource but with gaps.
Mitford has a gap between July 1783 and March 1787 where George could be lurking and also another from March 1788 to March 1791 - another potential lurking place.
Meldon is the tiniest parish - used, I believe, only by the workers on the Meldon Estate. Still worth a look though - George's father could have been working there.
Christine
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Hi dione
I checked out the missing years for Mitford today, also Meldon and Bolam but sadly didn’t find George.
Woodhorn has a book which contains an index of names in Hartburn registers which I also looked at. There were Forbes occurring but none in the period which includes 1788.
Perhaps you should now cast your net a bit wider. Hartburn may be the first place he remembered living but not where he was born.
Christine
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Hi Christine,
I also keep telling myself that Hartburn is the first place George remembers as a boy not that it helps me at all.
His wife Eleanor is a native of Chatton but again religion comes into it.She and all her siblings were christened at West Chapel Presbyterian Nc Wooler Nbl. Jora found all of her family for me back in January 2008. I haven't got much further have I????
Dione
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Well, between us we've looked at every single neighbouring parish to Hartburn (and there are a few). Is there any chance that the Forbes could also have been Presbyterian?
Christine
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Hi Christine,
Yes religion does come into it with the Forbes family and their descendants starting with my father and working back to George Forbes.
My Father married 1939 Methodist Church Brentford
Grandmother married 1906 St. Matthews Parish Brixton
G/Grandmother married 1871 Wesleyan Chapel Poplar
G.G.Grandfather James Forbes 2nd son of George Forbes. I cannot find his first marriage but the baptism of his first child was at Gateshead Wesleyan Methodist Circuit 1838 Bill Quay. James married his second wife at the Parish Church Jarrow 1842.
That brings us to George and Eleanor. They had their first born son John baptised Presbyterian at Berwick on Tweed. All the other children including James were baptised at Bamburgh Parish.
Dione
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They certainly hopped about the denominations, didn't they.
I know that the Methodist chapels in the vacinity belonged to the Hexham PM Circuit (ref. genuki) but their baptism records at Woodhorn only start in 1888 - a wee bit too late for George.
He's looking more likely to have been baptised in a non-conformist church or chapel, isn't he?
Christine
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No Forbes in Rothbury Presbyterian or Morpeth St. George Presby
Janis
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Thank you Christine and Janis for your help.I feel am going to have to think outside the box although where that is I have no idea. ???
Dione