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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Toban on Friday 26 October 12 14:06 BST (UK)
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Hi,
William Wild came to Australia in 1858. When he died in 1879 his death certificate stated that he had one male and two female children currently living and nine sons deceased (12 kids all told!). I am a little skeptical about the accuracy of this, as I know he had two daughters who predeceased him... Regardless, there should be more children than what I have in my files currently. I have found the four children he and his wife had after arriving in Australia, which leaves eight to find (if the death certificate got the numbers right). I assume they were born in Bilston or Wolverhampton.
William Wild married Eliza Hale in 1845 in Wolverhampton and was living in Bilston in 1851. I know of three children who were born in Bilston: Dennis in 1845 (d. 1848), Ann in 1847 (d. 1869 in Australia), and Sarah in 1852. This leaves five children to find.
If anybody has access to Bilston baptisms and burials and can find the children on William & Eliza Wild therein I would be very grateful.
Cheers,
T
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Doesn't quite pan out does it. He can't have only had two female children if one died before him and two were living when he died!
Who filled in the death cert with that info?
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Have you checked out
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl ?
By just entering the surname and the years ie 1845-1858 and the area Wolverhampton, which Bilston came under until 1935, I found plenty of deaths for Wild. Unfortunately the records don't list parentage or age so, unless you know of any names of the deceased children, it's a bit like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack!
Another possibility is the FamilySearch website.
I also came across this site
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
If you scroll down the page there is a listing for Bilston St Leonard's Burials 1813-1837 A-Z. Looking at the listing there are burials for eight Wilds but the dates are too early for the children. They may, however, be relatives of the family.
Tony
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Hi
What was the address that William was living at in Bilston, also what was his year and place of birth, I don't seen to be able to pick him up on the 1851 census
Margp
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I can see him either Margp.
There's a William and Margaret with a Mary Ann not a William and Eliza with an Ann :-\
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Hold up could it be under Wels?
William 24
Eliza 22
Ann 3
Can't read the address but could be Wild on the original.
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Yes Millie that's him and the address is Oxford St Bilston, I lived not far from there, until I married many moons ago
I have found the following burial record
James Wild
Aged 2 years and 1 month old
12 Nov 1848 St Georges Wolverhampton
Abode Oxford St Bilston
Margp
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Interestingly, when I did a search on FreeBMD, the only marriage that fits was to an Eliza Hall, not Hale, but FamilySearch came up with the following:-
parents: J. Wild
spouse: Eliza Hale
groom's name: William Wild
groom's birth date: 1826
groom's age: 19
bride's name: Eliza Hale
bride's birth date: 1828
bride's age: 17
marriage date: 03 Feb 1845
marriage place: St. Peter, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
groom's father's name: J. Wild
bride's father's name: D. Hale
indexing project (batch) number: I03185-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1040904
so maybe the FreeBMD record is a transcription error. There are also records for the birth of Ann to William and Eliza and also Dennis to same.
The only Eliza Wild I can find in Bilston is working as a servant at the home of Robert Hodgkinson who is listed as a courier.
Tony
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Well done Milliepede! looking at the record, it's difficult to see how it was transcribed as Wels as, comparing it to the style of writing on the other entries, it quite clearly says Wild. (I've put a correction in on Ancestry to update the record)
I'd also go along with Oxford Street MarjP
Tony
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Well done Milliepede! looking at the record, it's difficult to see how it was transcribed as Wels as, comparing it to the style of writing on the other entries, it quite clearly says Wild. (I've put a correction in on Ancestry to update the record)
I'd also go along with Oxford Street MarjP
Tony
Love the cats Tony, the one on the left is very much like my 10 week old kitten Monty
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Well done Milliepede! looking at the record, it's difficult to see how it was transcribed as Wels as, comparing it to the style of writing on the other entries, it quite clearly says Wild. (I've put a correction in on Ancestry to update the record)
I'd also go along with Oxford Street MarjP
Tony
Love the cats Tony, the one on the left is very much like my 10 week old kitten Monty
Sadly neither are with us now Marg. The one on the left died in 2000 aged 14, and her sister died in 2004 at 18. I hope yours has as long a life as ours did. We now have one that decided to adopt us after living in the garden for a few weeks while she decided if we were up to her standards! We passed. ;D
Tony
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Wow, that was quick. And so much done.
Milliepede, the informant for the death certificate was his widow Eliza. You'd think she'd know!
Tony, I have checked out the FreeREG, FamilySearch & Wolverhampton sites, but, as you mentioned, there's a fair restriction on what's available. Hard to verify who belongs to who....
I did have their 1851 census from Oxford Street, along with the note that they were mistranscribed as 'Wels.' But that James from 1848 is a new one! I'd put money on him belonging to William & Eliza.
This Wild family gives me headaches every time I come back and try and tackle them again. It's my direct paternal line, so I'd love to know more (well, everything!) about them, but they just don't want to cooperate...
William's father is also an issue...
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Hmmm... I may want to take my money off James....
If his details are correct in his burial record, that his age actually was 2 years, 1 month, then that would put his birth in October, 1846. However, Ann (who we know is one of William & Eliza's) was born in May, 1847. With only seven months between them, it's biologically impossible for them to be siblings...
Having just checked the FreeREG entry for him, it notes that his age was 2 years, 11 months. But this doesn't help either, as it would put his birth in Dec 1845/Jan 1846 - only 7/8 months from the birth of Dennis. And I doubt any child born a month or more prematurely would have survived to the age of two in those days.
Can anyone locate James' baptism record to prove who he really belongs to?
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Hope it is ok to put his link on
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
you can look through a few of the churches but if you go on all burials in the area you will find the James age 2yrs 11 months he was living Oxford Street at the time of his death but it gives no parents names.
Sal
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Hi Toban
I am sorry about the information on James Wild burial record, it was 11 months on the parish record.
I would not rule out James yet , unless you have the actual date of when Dennis Wild was born, I am not 100% on this, but if he was born in March and not register until April he may have gone into that quarter.
Margp
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Hi
This link may help with registrations of birth
See Column 1 and 8
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm#ENTRY
Margp
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Dennis's christening took place on the 8 June 1845 at St' Leonard's in Bilston, so it looks as though Eliza was "with child" at the time of her marriage to William. It does give added weight to Toban's argument that James may be from different parents, although still possibly part of the extended Wild family in Bilston.
Tony
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Hi
That is a baptist record and could have been born any time before that date
Margp
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I have a birth date of 3 May 1845 for Dennis, but having checked FamilySearch (where I got the baptism info from) there's no mention of a birth date, so now I don't know where I got this from...
If James does belong to them, the latest Dennis could be born is January 1845. This would mean he is William & Eliza's illegitimate son. If his birth was registered on April 1 (to get him into the June registration quarter) then his birth would have had to have taken place after 26 February to get him within the 6 weeks. Though some fudging may have taken place...
Tony, I don't know about any extended family in Bilston. Eliza's family was from there, which I why they probably moved there. William's family was from Wolverhampton and he only had one surviving brother, whose children were all born in Australia (he was my ancestor). William's father was born in Staffordshire (according to the 1841 census) between 1791-1796, but that's all I know about him... But there were a lot of Wilds in the area!
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There is a James Wild baptised 15 Nov 1845 at St. Peter’s, Wolverhampton, to George & Hannah. He was a miner of Warwick Street. So it looks like this is the James who died in 1848, and thus not the son of William & Eliza.
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Hi
There is a baptist record for George and Hannah's daughter
Hannah Wild,
1 Jan 1848 St Peters
Father George, Mother Hannah
Abode Warwick St
Burial Record for Georges Wife
Hannah Wild,
10 Dec 1848 St Georges
Aged 27
Abode Warwick St
George Wild is still Living with his 2 daughters Hannah and Caroline, in Warwick St, on the 1861 census, so this may rule out there son James.
Margp
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Hi
There is only 1 birth registered and 1 death registered for a James Wild for the time frame, I wonder if the abode is where he died and not where he lived, and he is the son of George and Hannah, if this is so George may be related William.
Margp
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Tony, I don't know about any extended family in Bilston. Eliza's family was from there, which I why they probably moved there. William's family was from Wolverhampton and he only had one surviving brother, whose children were all born in Australia (he was my ancestor). William's father was born in Staffordshire (according to the 1841 census) between 1791-1796, but that's all I know about him... But there were a lot of Wilds in the area!
Sorry Toban, I was going on the number of Wild burials at St Leonard's, 18 between 1784 and 1837, and assumed that they were possibly extended family.
Tony
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William did have a brother George, but moved to Australia in 1849. I don't know whether they had any cousins on the Wild side, as I'm unsure about their father's parentage. The only baptism I can find in the right time frame does not appear to have siblings...
No worries, Tony. As I said, there are a lot of Wilds in the area and I can't seem to connect my family to any of them!
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Hi Toban
What information do you have on the brother George, and the baptist record that may be William
Marg
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George (my GG grandfather) was born on 15 Sep 1827 and baptised 26 Oct 1827 in St Peter's Wolverhampton. He was convicted of larceny at age 19 on 11 Mar 1848 and sentenced to seven years' transportation. He received his Ticket of Leave less that a week after the convict ship 'Adelaide' docked in Sydney, on Christmas Eve 1849. He took up the carrying/carting trade in NSW and eventually settled in Wagga in the south of the colony, where he operated a 75-odd acre farm, married and raised a family of seven. He died on 25 Mar 1902 of apoplexy.
William was baptised on 26 Sep 1825 in St Peter's Wolverhampton. He was apprenticed to a hinge maker, with whom he is living when then 1841 census was taken. By the time he immigrated in 1858 his occupation was as an iron moulder. He bought a farm in Swampy Plain, near to his brother's property in Wagga. There he and his wife Eliza had four children, in addition to their daughter Ann, who had travelled from England with them. He died in 1879 of dropsy.
George and William's parents were John Wild and Ann Windle, who were married on 26 Feb 1816 in St. Peter's Wolverhampton. Ann died in 1839, and John is found in Ward Street, Wolverhampton, in 1841, a labourer, aged 45, living with his son George and (assumed) daughter Ann, aged 8. I don't know anything about John after this point, nor can I find a baptism for Ann.
John and Ann's other children are:
Harriet (1819-1904) married Henry Westwood, moved to Birmingham
John (1821-1841). At death of Walsall Street. This is a tentative death record at the moment...
Sarah (1824-1824)
Joseph (1830-1832)
There was also a Mathias Wild who died in 1840 at the age of 5 who I believe is also John & Ann's. This is because Ann's father's name was Mathias Windle.
A Samuel Windle was born to Ann Windle, seamstress, and baptised only two months before John & Ann were married, so it is probable that John was the father of him.
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Hi Toban
Thank you for the information, this confirms what I had found previous to your post, there are a few maybes for John Wilds baptist record but nothing definite.
One thing I did note is, that on the marriage for William and Eliza that J Wilds occupation was a Backer and this is old term for a Baker ???
Margp
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I had also noted the 'backer' occupation of John. Perhaps he was a baker for a short period before becoming or reverting to labourer status. At the baptism of all his children he is listed as a labourer.
I cannot find a suitable death record for John between 1841 and 1851 (I assume he died in this period because I could not find a good match for him in the 1851 census). I've checked all the deaths registered in Wolverhampton district for this period and none matches.
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There is a death of a John Wild in Wolverhampton in 1870
Wild John 77 Wolverhampton 6b 295
The age at death would put the birth at around 1793. Would this fit in with your estimate of John's birth?
I did have difficulty finding him on census returns, but that could just mean that he moved around and didn't just stay in Wolverhampton.
Tony
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Thanks Tony, it would certainly fit if it were him. But he needs to be found in the censuses to be sure. As my subscriptions to both findmypast and ancestry have currently expired, I can't do much about that.
Can anyone find him?
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Hi Toban,
I did a search on Ancestry and came up with quite a few John Wilds but, not knowing whether or not he did move about, it is difficult to say for certain that this is the particular John Wild you are searching for. I don't have a sub to FindmyPast so am unable to look for that. Sorry I can't be more helpful with that.
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Were any of those Johns born in Staffordshire? That's where the 1841 census said he was born...
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Hi Toban
I can't find John any where on the 1851 census, I see that Ann is a servant with a family.
The only burial record I can see for John Wild, is the one for Walsall St, and I think you have this.
I have Googled Walsall St and it is around the corner from Ward St, the age is a bit out but this not unusual, as the information is only as good as the informants knowledge, also his year of birth on the 1841 census may also be out, as they rounded up or down by 5 years
Here is the GRO ref for that burial
John Wild
July-Sept Qtr 1856
Reg Wolverhampton
Vol 6b
Page 229
The only other suggestion I can make, did he go to Australia as well
Marg
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Hi Marg,
Can you give me the details of Ann's 1851 record - I don't have that.
I don't think the 1856 death is his, as I doubt the ages would be out as much as 20 years, which is what they'd have to be. The age of the '56 death was 42, meaning he was born c.1814. This would mean John was married at age 2!
I have no evidence that he came to Australia. There are a couple of John Wilds in the NSW death index. One stands out as a man who died in Parramatta (a Sydney suburb now - then a separate settlement) in 1859 aged 66. This put his birth year at c.1793, which fits well. However, on William's immigration papers of 1858 he states that both his parents are already deceased and the only relations he has in the colony is his brother George.
There's always the possibility that John's death was not registered in the Wolverhampton district, but with 357 deaths of "John Wild" recorded between 1841 and 1858 it'd be very difficult to pinpoint which one is him!
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Hi Tony,
Were any of those Johns born in Staffordshire? That's where the 1841 census said he was born...
None do seem to fit Toban. The only one that came close had a wife named Elizabeth, so that was a non starter.
It is a problem when people are not where you want them to be. ???
One of my ancestors doesn't appear on the census returns for quite a few years, even though I know he was still alive and kicking. Oh for an unusual surname to follow up - I have Davies and Murphy to contend with! ;D
Tony
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Just checked FreeBMD and there were, according to their records, only three deaths for a John Wild in Wolverhampton between 1841 and 1851:-
Deaths Jun 1841
Wild John Wolverhampton 17 240
Deaths Mar 1846
WILD John Wolverhampton &c 17 257
Deaths Mar 1849
Wild John Wolverhampton 17 262
Does that help narrow the field down? Unfortunately, ages at death weren't given on BMD until 1870!
ADDED The first one can be ruled out as FamilySearch have his birth as 1821
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Thanks Tony.
He may have remarried.... The one married to Elizabeth may still be him.
I've checked out those records already. The 1841 death was aged 20; 1846 aged 64 and 1849 aged 9 months. None of which fit. :(
It looks as though he may have died outside of Wolverhampton. His daughter, Harriet, moved to Birmingham sometime before the 1851 census was taken, so he may have been living there too. Or perhaps just visiting her when he died.
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Just checked out the return for John and Elizabeth Wild and the record states born in Bridgnorth, Shropshire.
Back to the drawing board! :(
Tony
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Was Harriet married when she moved to Birmingham? If she was, do you know her married name?
Tony
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Oh well....
Yes, Harriet was married when she moved to Birmingham about 1845. Her husband was Henry Westwood. I have all her census records except the 1891. There's no mention of extended family in the censuses, just her, husband and children. A couple of lodgers on the '51 too... Not much of a help
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It doesn't look as though John was visiting on census night then. I suppose he could be visiting elsewhere but he would still show up on records if he were. So you have the possibilities that he'd died before 1851, that he was elswhere but not recorded, or that his name was mis-transcribed (as we've seen with William's family). They certainly don't make it easy for us!
Tony