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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: christiek on Wednesday 24 October 12 18:40 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help because I'm struggling a little.
I'm looking for a William John Poots. His wife was called Eliza Ann (Elizabeth on a couple of documents) and his children were: Eliza Ann (Lizzie), Robert, William John, David, Olive, Margery (who died in 1906) and Andrew. He died sometime before 1909 because his wife remarried a Wright and is listed with some of the children under the name Elizabeth Wright in the 1911 census. I've found them on the 1901 census living at St Mary's Row in Banbridge. According to that census he was an agricultural labourer and he couldn't read or write.
Here is where I come a little unstuck. I can only find indexes online for marriage and birth records. There's a marriage listed for 1893 (a year before the first child was born) in Banbridge for a William Poots, can't work out how to find the spouse.
Would like to find his birth record as well, the only one I could find puts his birth as 15th December 1844, which would make him 62 when the last child was born!
Obviously, without finding his birth record, I'm struggling to find who his parents were!
I also have absolutely no clue what Eliza Ann's maiden name was either, so if anyone comes across that information, that would be much appreciated. Thank you!
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Hi,
10 Oct 1893 William Poots married Eliza Anne McKeown in Seapatrick Church of Ireland, Banbridge. The fathers' names were William Poots and Andrew McKeown.
Regards
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Here's the Poots family in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/West_Urban__Banbridge_/Mary_s_Row/1202903
...and the 1911 census showing Poots children with mother & stepfather-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Banbridge_West_Urban/Kenlis_Street/206741
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Thank you ever so much kingskerswell. Would you mind me asking you where you found the information, just so I know where to look for it/what records to order when I get over to N Ireland in a couple of weeks?
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Given the age differences between the couple, it might have been a second marriage for William. The marriage cert will tell you. (I see a possible previous marriage in 1864 in Banbridge to Mary Lanigan Vol 1. Page 268.) I also see what may be his death in Banbridge in Jan – Mar 1908, thought the age isn’t quite right (b c 1853). You might need to get the cert to check.
His age means that he was born before the start of statutory registration so you won’t get a birth cert for him. You will probably have to rely on church records. He was Church of Ireland and so I’d start with the local COI records (Seapatrick parish) which have been copied and are in PRONI, but are probably not on-line anywhere.
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Hi,
See https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084
Regards
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Thanks ever so much. You've just opened up a new line of enquiry. I think I can trace my family back a little further now. I'm flying over to Ireland in a couple of weeks so now I have a little bit more of an idea what I'm looking for as well in regards to PRONI.
Do I mark this as completed now? Or do I leave it open, bearing in mind that I may have a couple of questions in the future? (If nobody minds that is?)
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The topic's fine as it is, feel free to add more queries here. Meanwhile, there are lots of Poots from Co. Down here which might be of interest-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/P/PlPo.htm
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According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) website, son William John who appears in both the 1901 and 1911 census records fought and died in WW1:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1586908/POOTS,%20WILLIAM%20JOHN
Brother Robert also died in WW1 a couple of years earlier, details also on the CWGC website:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/65948/POOTS,%20R
Their names also appear on the Banbridge War Memorial opposite the Downshire Arms in Newry Street, Banbridge.
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Given the age differences between the couple, it might have been a second marriage for William. The marriage cert will tell you. (I see a possible previous marriage in 1864 in Banbridge to Mary Lanigan Vol 1. Page 268.) I also see what may be his death in Banbridge in Jan – Mar 1908, thought the age isn’t quite right (b c 1853). You might need to get the cert to check.
His age means that he was born before the start of statutory registration so you won’t get a birth cert for him. You will probably have to rely on church records. He was Church of Ireland and so I’d start with the local COI records (Seapatrick parish) which have been copied and are in PRONI, but are probably not on-line anywhere.
The father of William Poots who married Eliza Ann McKeown in Seapatrick CoI in 1893 was William Poots, a shoemaker.
The father of William John Poots who married Mary Lannigan in Seapatrick CoI in 1864 was William Poots, a shoemaker.
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Given the age differences between the couple, it might have been a second marriage for William. The marriage cert will tell you. (I see a possible previous marriage in 1864 in Banbridge to Mary Lanigan Vol 1. Page 268.) I also see what may be his death in Banbridge in Jan – Mar 1908, thought the age isn’t quite right (b c 1853). You might need to get the cert to check.
His age means that he was born before the start of statutory registration so you won’t get a birth cert for him. You will probably have to rely on church records. He was Church of Ireland and so I’d start with the local COI records (Seapatrick parish) which have been copied and are in PRONI, but are probably not on-line anywhere.
The father of William Poots who married Eliza Ann McKeown in Seapatrick CoI in 1893 was William Poots, a shoemaker.
The father of William John Poots who married Mary Lannigan in Seapatrick CoI in 1864 was William Poots, a shoemaker.
So going by that, we could safely assume that his birth date is actually the older date then?
Thank you so much everyone I am quite overwhelmed by the amount of help you've been.
I knew about the two brothers because they've been subject of much family lore. The elder one also signed the Ulster Covenant along with his sister who signed the declaration for females. But thanks to some resources on here, I've managed to get a lot more information than I had before. My family were not aware of the war memorial either.
It's quite interesting how well I'm doing this time round because apparently my granny and granda started their family tree when my dad was little and didn't get anywhere with it. I'm motivated to explore both the Hyde and the Poots side of my family because my granny would really like to finish what they started, but it's becoming a bit of an obsession now!
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Yes, he may be a bit older...
BTW, here's a webpage about Banbridge War Memorial:
http://www.ulsterwarmemorials.net/html/banbridge.html
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Hi, Have a look at http://countydown.x10.mx/
There is also a Poots family in the Dromore area. Could be some of the same family.
Cheers, Sam.
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Hiya,
I'm a little further on with the William John Poots marriage issue, though it's just getting increasingly confusing!
Going by the census of 1901 and matching up kids names and then corresponding burial records and address records, I'm pretty much sure that the William John Poots is the older one who married Eliza Mckeweon (who then remarried and became Eliza Wright). I've been in Banbridge this week and with the help of a lovely genealogy guy called Jason at the Banbridge tourist information (btw they have a family history section where you can make appointments and they have some of the general records information, like cause of death etc) he helped me find all the children of this particular William John Poots of Banbridge. He had 3 children before his second marriage - William John, Margaret Jane and Annie. BUT - their mother is not listed as Mary Lannigan, it's listed as Mary Poots Scott. There's also 5 years between the birth of the first child we found (William John born 1869) and the marriage to Mary Lannigan.
We've found absolutely nothing on Mary Lannigan prior to her marriage, but there is a Mary Poots who died in 1881 in Banbridge, who could be the wife?
Could Mary Lannigan and Mary Poots Scott be the same person?
Or could William John Poots have married two seperate women called Mary and then married Eliza?
If anyone could help, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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hi, i,m researching my gt.gt grandparents william potts[ he comes under the name poots a few times]and mary scott from banbridge mary comes from seapatrick. i wonder if this is the same william you are looking for. i will have to look at my information and i will get back to you. ???
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hi, ive looked at the information i have and my william potts who married mary scott, i have a list of children .sarah potts born banbridge 1864 she is my gt grandmother,margaret potts b banbridge 1880, william john potts b 1867 banbridge, annie potts b 1878 banbridge, david potts b 1871 banbridge, james potts b 1873 banbridge, margaret potts middle name was jane, this is all the info i have on the potts family i have been looking for ages to find more out. all i know is my gt grandmother sarah went to live in ayrshire and married a john kelly fron ireland 15months after her first child was born and got married in ayrshire scotland 1899 and had another two children one was my grandfather william kelly. :)
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Children of William Poots (registered as Potts) & Mary Scott-
William John (1867) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR9P-NJT
George William (1869) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPDW-2WR
David (1871) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F535-292
James (1873) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGPD-Q7C
Thomas (1874) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPSY-WRH
Annie (1878) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG63-RMX
Margaret Jane (1880) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGK5-SZ1
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hi aghadowey, where do you think sarah potts[my gt grandmother fits into this family as william and mary are her parents. ???
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You said she was born 1864- do you not have her birth certificate? If not, where did you get the year of birth from?
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hi aghadowey, i have sarah's marriage cert. i had a local geneolagist start my family tree . i found out that sarah and her husband died in 1909 and there 3 children was boarded out to a thomas and margaret chalmers at fauldribbon rd girvin ayrshire so i am also trying to find out margaret chalmers maiden name to see if she was sarah's sister but no luck yet.
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If the birth year of 1864 is taken from a Scottish certificate then it might be slightly out. Civil registration of births started in 1864 but some early births didn't get registered.
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It could possibly be that William Potts and William Poots are the same person. We are descended from his second marriage to Eliza Anne Mckeowan.
Right on my family tree so far, we've found Thomas Poots (1876), Annie Poots (1879) and Margaret J Poots (1879) and William John Poots (1867) so it's helpful to see we've missed a couple out.
Cathy52, do you have a marriage certificate for your William John Poots and Mary Scott? Because we are pretty sure he married this Mary Lannigan at Seapatrick church, the geneologist at Banbridge tourist information agreed with us, as the occupation and name of the father matched up and the family church was Seapatrick church for a few generations. So when it came up that he was fathering children with a Mary Scott, I was getting a bit confused as to whether Mary Lannigan and Mary Scott were the same person or not.
Aghadowey, you haven't by any chance come across a marriage record for Mary Scott and William John Poots have you?
Cathy52, I don't know if it helps but this is the information I have on my William John Poots, which I'm fairly sure is the same person you are researching. Btw, I know you shouldn't go by family lore but according to a relative of mine (who may not be the most trustworthy) the joke was the he was a bit of a dodgy character and was a bigamist, hence part of my interest in trying to unravel how many wives etc. I have that he married Mary Lannigan on 27th March 1864, witnesses were Adam Mercer and Anne Curry. His occupation at that time was a hotel servant. The Banbridge geneologist told me that there were only two hotels in Banbridge at that time and one of them was pretty close to his house, so it was probably that one...his possible place of work is still there btw, but I can't remember the name of it right now.
On 10th October 1893 he remarried, to Eliza Anne Mckeown. I've seen the original marriage certificate but don't currently have a copy. The Minister was John E Browne, witnesses were Henry John Harris and Mary Jane Russell. In 1893, he was a labourer in Banbridge. In 1901 his address was 11 Mary's Row in Banbridge - you can find this information on the census. The house he lived in is no longer standing, it was rebuilt into a newer council estate in the 1970's. In 1901 he was an agricultural labourer. He couldn't read or write according to the census.
He went on to have seven children with Eliza Ann Mckeown - Eliza Ann Poots (1870), William John Poots (1895) died in WW1, Robert Poots (1897) died in WW1, Olive Poots (1899), Margery Poots (1900), David Poots (1902 - we are descended from him) and Andrew Poots.
He died in 1908 aged 63 and we think he was buried in an unmarked grave in Banbridge town cemetary with two adults and one infant. When I had an appointment with the registrar at Banbridge council office they found that he had purchased this particular unmarked grave and the addresses added up, but they couldn't find the specific record in the book so I had to go by the cemetary record which just has the surname Poots and how many adults and infants are in the grave. It was row F, but I can't remember the number right now. If you are planning to visit, I can try and hunt it out for you but there's nothing to see there. Just in case you are interested, I know the grave for Thomas Poots is there as well, so it's not him in the grave.
I hope some of this information helps, if you want further back I have some more information on previous generations but as I'm researching the generation back at the moment myself, I'd rather verify everything before I pass it on as fact.
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You can search for a possible marriage - Irish civil registration index online at www.familysearch.org- search for bride and groom separately then see if you can find matching registration details.
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hi christiek, i will have a look and see what cert i have. im just thinking william poots or potts maybe changed his name every time he got married if he was a bigamist.he seems to have used a lot of the same names for his children whith the different wives he had,it seems when my gt grandmother was born in 1864 he was getting [married] to mary lannigan the same year, his last child that i know of was born 1880 who was margaret jane, now i'm getting confused, ??? will have to check all the info that i have,how many marriages have you found for him. i would love any info you have on the poots[potts]i have been thinking about going to visit banbridge some day, will let you know if i have marriage cert. i'm confused about who's children are who's ha ha. :D
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I think you both be making things more complicated than they really were.
To start with you need to get the 1893 marriage for William John Poots to Eliza Ann McKeown to find out if he's listed as widowed or single.
Then, if in 1893 he was a widower, the 1864 marriage with Mary Lannigan to vertify that her surname is really Lannigan, her father's name and occupation, etc.
I think Mary Lannigan/Scott are the same person and his 2nd wife was Eliza Ann McKeown but you need to check in case that isn't correct.
Re: sarah's birth c1864- I think she might have been born just before or around the time of the 1864 marriage and either wasn't registered or registeration under mother's maiden name if before the marriage.
You also need to see if church records survive and then check for baptisms, burials and anything else in the church records.
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Okay Aghadowey,
Thank you.
I have seen the information they have in Banbridge records for the Mary Lannigan marriage, her fathers name is Thomas Lannigan and he's an agricultural labourer. And she is listed as Lannigan.
Hence my confusion as to why he's then fathering children with a Mary Scott.
There's only one William John Poots of that age though, so I'm thinking it is the same one and he names his kids pretty much the same names. The only way we'll know though is to apply for the certificates. This'll be the first record I've paid to order, been very lucky in that my Granny has the majority of the original records, but not this one or further back on this side of my family tree.
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hi christiek, no i havent got marriage cert for william poots [potts]and mary scott.i dont know that much about the poots[potts] family just bits and pieces would love to find out more .i was hoping when you have time if i could pm you with my email address if you could forward anything on to me. i am going to apply for the marriage cert for william and mary scotts marriage. i am going to go through my records tomorrow and see what info i can find. i've even wrote to the few potts that still live in banbridge to see if they were related to william and mary, only had 2 reply's back. will let you know what i find out. :)
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Hi,
I just came across your post by coincidence yesterday when I was trying to help a friend trace an ancestor interned in Banbridge cemetery. I am related to William John Poots of Banbridge. He was my Great Grandfather. My mother was May Poots who was the Daughter of Olive Poots whose father was William John. My William John had 2 sons who died in the First World War, Robert and William who would have been my Great Uncles. If any of this information relates in any way to your search and I can help you further I would be glad to do so. I have photographs of Robert in his uniform and also of his brother William ( not in uniform ) and would be happy to email copies to you if you thought we may be related. I remember my Uncle Andy very well, my Grandmothers brother. I have 3 brothers and a sister and extended family in Australia, Canada and beyond. Good luck regardless, with your search. Best wishes, David
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Hi there again.
Sorry, but I just joined this forum and if I had read your profile properly I would have seen you actually are related to me through my great uncle David. If you read this let me know and I will send you the pictures of Davids brothers Robert and William. I see you have done a lot of research into the families past and I would very much like to know how far back you have managed to get. I am afraid I cant help you much with that but I would be intrigued to find out what you have unearthed. I have a DVD somewhere of a large Poots gathering for 2 Canadian Poots who would also be your relatives, which I will endeavour to find and send to you. Its a very small world, long lost cousin Christiek!
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hi david,i was reading your post today,so william john poots is your gt grandfather he is my gt gt grandfather his daughter from his first marriage is my gt grandmother do you know anything about his children from his first marriage. would anyone in your family have a photo of william poots, if not to cheeky i would love to see the photo's of robert and william his sons just to see what they are like and if they look like there dad just to get a idea of what the poots family look like, regards catherine ps i have been researching the poots family for ages got a lot of info from christiek, anymore info would be great. :)