RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: patsymac on Wednesday 24 October 12 02:35 BST (UK)
-
Looking for a passenger list for the Indian Queen left Liverpool Dec 1856 arrived Wellington 1857. Have seen the semi list that was posted but I want to see WHERE my man came from and if his wife was with him on board or did she arrive as a single woman and themarriage not noted here. Does anyone know if the original list has been found at all?? thanks
-
Hi Patsy,
Would you like to put the names of your folk on here and see if we can kelp help (thanks Spades) you
Cheers Janette
-
That might be a bit painful, don't you think Janette? LOL ;D
Spades
-
Ooops,it could have been worse I guess :P :P
Cheers Janette
-
Hi everyone, looking for John MASON b c1831 arrived on the Indian Queen married c1860 to Mary Ann MARSHALL (no sign of a NZ marriage) but I note on that part passenger list that there were also MARSHALL's so maybe she came on the same voyage. John died in 1869 in Wellington so death registration tells me zilch. I really want to know where he came from if possible. He belonged to the Anciety Order of Foresters and I have managed to contact the Lodge in the UK sadly they cant help but info in the National Library on the Lodge. Not sure it will be of help though but have asked. He was a chimney sweep night cart man and advertised in the local papers so have managed to scoop info from Papers Past. The Passenger list would at least give me a County to start with. cheers Patsy
-
I wonder if this is his marriage
Marriages Dec 1852
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
MARSHALL Mary Ann Belper 7b 812
MASON John Belper 7b 812
The district Belper is in the county of Derbyshire
Cheers Janette
-
Hi patsymac
Some years back, (as ya do), I spent an hour or so at Archives in Wellington," painstakingly" endeavouring to transcribe the list of persons who travelled per the "Indian Queen". :D [ And somewhere I still have a copy of it, I think? ]
It is not though, an actual list documenting all passengers - but rather in the style of a promissory note for each male immigrant ( and notes the number of persons accompanying the "head of each family group".)
At the time I also scoured the local Wellington papers (which weren't online at that time) and the "best" information as to passenger names came by way of a testimonial to the ship's Captain (but that of course did not include all passenger names.) I also looked at the pass./lists held in Wellington Library's index card system (which I believe NZSG members may have compiled using the newspaper reports).
Anyway, having done all that (and being a bit slack in getting around to publishing the "Indian Queen" list) ... I discovered a few months later, that someone else had gone to Archives and prepared something similar. ;D
I do believe you can find that information at the "family tree circles" website (of, I think, "ngaire edith" ... or similar). It should come up in a Google search.
~ Lu
-
here is a link to that list
http://www.familytreecircles.com/indian-queen-28081.html
Cheers Janette
-
Hi Patsy
yep ... just google "Indian Queen passenger list 1857" and it'll pop up for you. ;)
~ Lu
-
I notice that the website owner (ngaire edith) has added the following comment accompanying the "Indian Queen - 1857" list.
"... the number after each name is the number of promissory notes signed" .
--------------------------------
That however was not the way I interpreted the information when I viewed it. ;D
The head of the family group was named ...
e.g. SMITH - John
alongside of which was a number
e.g. 5678 ... followed by another number - say, 5682
That allowed you to work out that ...
John SMITH was number 5678 and his family group consisted of persons numbered through to "5682".
= John SMITH accompanied by 4 other persons.
[As far as I am aware, the head of the family group would sign just the one promissory note (on behalf of all family members accompanying him.) ]
[I used the list I compiled on a number of occasions for people seeking look-ups wanting to know how many immigrants were in a particlar family group. In all but about one instance, the numbers totalled those known to have travelled with the named head of the family group.]
Have just added this for clarification for any others who at some later date may be looking for "Indian Queen" info (there is at least one other thread on the topic, in this forum].
~ Lu
-
Thanks Janette for that marriage it is something I will keep handy until I hopefully find that John came from Derbyshire??? I must look for children of the marriage between then and 1857 just in case
If he is mine then there maybe more children to the family I only have those that were born here in NZ. Five born between 1862 and 1869
Also thanks to Lu and again Janette for that link I have been there and yes John Mason is on it which is wonderful but that is all the information there is and he has the number 4 after his name so does that mean there were four family altogether or that he signed 4 Promissory notes?? Still will keep searching and see what comes up. thanks heaps again. I have checked out the old thread re the Indian Queen
cheers and thanks all
Patsy
-
Meant to ask Lu do you think that the County of origin may have been something that you noted on your list or would that not have been available on the papers that you transcribed from?
cheers
Patsy
-
Hi Patsy,
There may well be a couple of children born before they arrived if that marriage is the correct one.
I see on NZ BDM's there were 2 John and Mary Ann Mason's having children between 1862 and 1889, with 2 children worn in 1868.
it may be worth having a look here
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Cheers Janette
-
yes trap for players those two families. However I have managed to sort them out thank goodness. I will checkout the poss births in the UK but still need to KNOW if its my family otherwise its a wasted effort. Sadly there are TWO possibles in the 1841 census for John Mason (father John) I found that marriage you noted on Family Search which was great) so have noted both although The 1851 census doesnt throw up anyone that matches. However the chase is half the fun isnt it :)
-
.... that link I have been there and yes John Mason is on it which is wonderful but that is all the information there is and he has the number 4 after his name so does that mean there were four family altogether or that he signed 4 Promissory notes??
Hi Patsy
Just to save me repeating, please refer to to my explanation and interpretation, at Reply # 9. :)
[I believe that only the heads of families would be required to sign a promissiory note - and that that would be on behalf of wives, minors (children). ]
~ Lu
-
Meant to ask Lu do you think that the County of origin may have been something that you noted on your list or would that not have been available on the papers that you transcribed from?
Hi Patsy
No sorry, County of Origin was not noted.
As I said, the list held by Archives at Wellington, from which I transcribed details, is not an actual passenger list.
The "Indian Queen" passenger list appears to have been lost - Archives New Zealand don't have it - and the Wellington Library's list of passengers (which by no means includes all who were aboard and for the most part records only adults), was, I understand, compiled by NZSG members from two newspaper items naming passengers who'd signed a testimonial to the Captain of the vessel.
[The only other thing I recall was that a handful of the immigrants (males), had notes alongside of their names, giving brief details of their future employers, or indicating which district (in the wider Wellington region), they intended taking up residence. ]
I'll have a dig around to see if I still have have my original notes [though have a feeling they may have gone "west" in a recent tidy-up. ] ::) :D
~ Lu
-
Thanks again Lu .
Would appeciate it if you did find the list Lu but can understand if you dont, having just did the 'clean up' myself and wonder if stuff I threw SHOULD have been kept. trouble is the mountain groweth!! ;D
so need to trim it occasionally. cheers Patsy
-
Hi again Patsy
Along with others here, more than happy to try to help you with this brickwall. :)
Need some further info from you though, please.
* Can you give details (names of, y.o.b's) for the children of Mary Ann and John MASON. [Often "naming patterns" can assist when checking UK census returns.]
* I see that John Mason died as a result of an accident. Did his death cert. note whether an Inquest had been held ?
* Any further info you can supply for Mary Ann MASON (wife).
[Or was she the Mary Ann MASON who died in 1874 ? ]
~ Lu
-
Hi again
I see that Archives NZ (Wellington) hold a probate file for >
MASON - John -- 1869
I'm happy to have a look at this for you next time I'm at Archives (pse. let me know).
~ Lu
-
... noting also that there's a probate (@Wellington) for Mary Ann MASON - 1874 ... if she happen to be "yours".
~ Lu
-
Yippee !!!
Have found my "Indian Queen" notes. (Usually write all my transcriptions in a book - that way less like to biff it out). :D
I recall the Archives list wasn't in strict alphabetical order so will have to go over it again, but what I have so far is >
MASON - John and Mrs.
[Not quite sure why that entry on the website, "translates" as "MASON - J A " ] ???
Will get back to you.
~ Lu
-
You asked about MARSHALL (per "Indian Queen") ....
From the Archives NZ list (Promissory Notes) I have them transcribed as >
B. MARSHALL (# 1133 )
W. (or N? ) MARSHALL (# 1134 )
[I can't see that there were others travelling with these two men, ]
~ Lu
-
From a list of passengers who signed the testimonial to Captain D. F. DOBSON, Commander of the "Indian QUEEN" at Wellington on 6th February 1857 :
... We the undersigned between deck passengers of the Indian Queen .... (long list of signatories) ...
John MASON
Mrs. MASON
(Can't see MARSHALL amongst those who signed. ? )
[Source: Newspaper clipping - "The Wellington Independent" - Saturday, 7 February 1857 ]
~ Lu
-
.... Oooops.
** CORRECTION ** (to my last post)
Captain D. F. JOBSON (and not D. F. Dobson as I had written).
:-[ :D
-
Hi again Luc,
Children were William b 1862,Mary Ann b 1864, Marshall John b 1866 Helena Augusta b 1868 and Robert b 1869.
Great that at least we now know that the marriage you found is probably them?? and thanks for the offer but I have a copy of his Probate. No Inquest though which is a pain I felt sure there would be one but I got Lynley to check for me and nothing could be found. His Will left everything to Mary Ann she was executrix and then to his children. NONE of them are named in any of the papers sadly. Mary Ann "married" again to a James Donnelly as her and John's son Marshall was known as a Donnelly (divorce case in Papers Past) cant find that marriage so possibly lived together without benfit of clergy as they say :o)
I see that he and Mary Ann signed the petition and I wonder why I didnt pick that up on Papers Past must have another look. I am not sure if that is her that died in 1874 because if she was known as Donnelly could she have been buried under Mason? If you are at Archives some time and could look at the Probate for Mary Ann Mason who died in 1874 maybe there will be something in that that will help if it is her??? although she possibly would have been buried under Donnelly and there is nothing at Archives for a Mary Ann Donnelly. again Many thanks for your help. cheers Patsy
-
Hi Patsy
Mary Ann MASON ... can rule out the 1874 lady of this name.
But I've found your Mary Ann (thanks to the extra clues you provided.) ;)
James DONNELLY or rather Sergeant James DONNELLY, was a very prominent citizen of Wellington. :)
"Evening Post" - 22 June 1900 - page 6 - Deaths
DONNELLY - On 22 June at his late residence, 7 Evelyn Place, James DONNELLY, Sergeant of Police and Inspector of Weights and Measures. Aged 72 . Deeply regretted.
There are numerous tributes to him in various newspapers (haven't read them all).
So, the notice above doesn't mention a "wife" or children - but in 1901 In Memoriam notices were published from a wife and son (unnamed).
see Next >
-
DONNELLY .... Mary Ann MASON - continued
The '"Evening Post" - 5 December 1901 - Latest Telegrams - carried this marriage notice :
BROWN - DONNELLY -- On 26 November, William BROWN, widower, late of England, to Mary Ann DONNELLY, widow of the late Sergeant James DONNELLY of Wellington.
-------------------------------
And ... "Evening Post" - 26 September 1913 - page 1 - has this Bereavement Notice :
"... Mr W. BROWN wishes to thank .... his dearly beloved wife, Mary Ann BROWN ..."
--------------------------------
Mary Ann BROWN was buried 25 September 1913 at Karori Cemetery, Wellington
next >>
-
Karori Cemetery, Wellington :
If you view the cemetery record for James DONNELLY - died 22 June 1900, you'll see a link which takes you to a photo of his headstone.
Besides the inscription for James, there is also this.
"... also Vera Gladys DONNELLY ... b/o daughter of M. J. and Jessie DONNELLY - d. 1900"
-------------
NZ Birth
1899 - DONNELLY - Vera Gladys Mason
Parents: Hughena Jessie and Marshall John Mason DONNELLY
~ Lu
-
Hi Patsy
Here's the Karori Cemetery link >>
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/search/search.php
Hadn't noticed at first because I didn't look at both photos for James DONNELLY's plot .... but see that Marshall John Mason DONNELLY is also in Plot 42 K.
Will leave you to explore those meantime.
~ Lu
-
Great that at least we now know that the marriage you found is probably them??
Someone else suggested that 1852 Derbyshire marriage :D (of which I am a little dubious 'cos my initial look at UK census returns, suggested that couple may have still been in England in 1861 ? )
Anyway, as we now have found Mary Ann BROWN (formerley DONNELLY), I think you will probably be able to make more progress in your search, via her. ;)
-----------------------
Mary Ann BROWN - died Wellington 1913
The Karori Cemetery record gives her age as 70 years ... [bc 1843 ]
And that is confirmed at BDM (online) with this record.
*1913 / 4544 - BROWN - Mary Ann - 70 years
[Date of death deduced from online record is 23 September 1913 ]
[* Just noting there were two Mary Ann BROWN deaths in 1913 - the one aged 76 died in July of that year. ]
-------------------------
~ Lu
-
Mmmm ... was just getting a little ahead of myself re: the Mary Ann BROWN death 1913 at Wellington. Really need to do some more checking -- e/rolls etc. to make absolutely sure I have the right Mary Ann BROWN.
~ Lu
-
Hi Lu
thanks so much for your help it seems nearly all the family used the DONNELLY name I still cant find that marriage though either under Mason or Marshall. I will do all the checks and again thanks so much for your help Seemed mary Ann was the marrying kind ! :D cheers
Patsy
-
Hi again Patsy
Just to let you know where I'm currently at with this search.
The Mary Ann BROWN (aged 70) who died at Wellington 1913, is buried at Karori Cemetery with a William BROWN who died 1914 ... aged 65 years [bc 1949 ] ??
I'm still thinking that this particular Mary Ann BROWN is the same lady as Mary Ann (formerly DONNELLY - marr. William BROWN 1901). If so, then William BROWN was some six years younger than his wife ?? Not that that matters, but it just makes me wonder if wife Mary Ann was indeed 70 years at death (or even a bit older) ??
Unfortunately can't find ("Evening Post") death notices for these two - only the Bereavement thanks notice for Mary Ann BROWN of 1913.
Still have another Mary Ann BROWN - buried Karori, Wellington 1919 (no death notice) aged 81 [bc 1838 ] which I need to check further.
~ Lu
-
Archives New Zealand (Wellington) have this probate file >
DONNELLY - James -- 1900
Can take a look at it to see if there's anything of interest.
~ Lu
-
Hi Patsy
Our last posts, crossed. ;D
Can I ask which of the MASON children is the line you are following ?
Cheers
~ Lu
-
I wonder what happened to my reply????
I am chasing Helena Augusta MASON Luc, born 1868. And yes please can you look at James Donnelly's probate because it just may mention the MASON/DONNELLY children in there somewhere. I see no actual Probate for Mary Ann BRown in 1913 but wonder if the one in 1916 could be her? sometimes it takes a while especially if there is something 'odd' and 3 marriages with perhaps 'step' children from a couple of the husbands' ??? I see that there was Death Duty to pay on over £3000 in 1916 so maybe?
thanks again Patsy
-
Hi again Luc I might try asking on NZ list if someone has access to the marriage fiche and see if I can find that marriage for Mary Ann and james COnnelly. It may have been missed off the online list and it isnt on the NZSG CD either. cheers Patsy
-
sorry that should read James DONNELLY lol
-
.. and thanks for the offer but I have a copy of his Probate. No Inquest though which is a pain I felt sure there would be one but I got Lynley to check for me and nothing could be found. His Will left everything to Mary Ann she was executrix and then to his children. NONE of them are named in any of the papers sadly.
Hi Patsy
I'll get back to you shortly and reply to your earlier questions.
In the meantime here is the report from the Inquest into the death of John MASON.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Wellington Independent" - 17 April 1869 - Fatal Accident - page 2
... it states he had a wife and six children. ???
~ Lu
-
... it states he had a wife and six children. ???
And if Robert MASON (1869) was the son of the same John and Mary Ann MASON, then he was born shortly after the death of his father.
(Date of Birth for Robert MASON = 17 June 1869 -- deduced from online Birth registration record.)
[So maybe seven children in total ... unless the soon-to-be-born "Robert" was included in the six spoken about ? ]
???
-
Hi Luc
I am so cross (not with you :D you are wonderful) but with myself HOW DID I MISS THAT???? I have a copy of the death notice from the SAME days paper!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr thank you so much.
I asked on the NZ list about the marriage of Mary Ann and James nothing found but I was sent a transcript from the marriage of Marshall John Mason (aka Donnelly) and that actually stated his father John Mason his Mother Mary Ann Mason nee Marshall and the WITNESS was James Donnelly. It also states "Marshall John Mason his name by birth & baptism but took the name of his stepfather Donnelly & nowknown by that name" If they were married (and no one has found the marriage on the birth fiche) then surely she would have been noted on Marshall's marr as Mary Ann Donnelly prev Mason nee Marshall or somesuch?. The marriage could have missed being sent to the Registrar I suppose then I guess it wont be found unless it comes up on a Church list somewhere maybe??
Again, thanks very much for your help it has been invaluable.
Yes you are right Robert was probably born after his father's death and there must be other? children somewhere that I dont know about.
cheers
Patsy
-
Hi Patsy
Marshall's marriage cert. would be evidence enough for me, that his mother was not actually married to James DONNELLY. ;)
Mary Ann MASON probably preferred to face the public as "Mrs DONNELLY" but I believe her son has given an honest account of the true situation ... and to boot, has provided an explantion as to his change of surname. And all in the presence of (former policeman) James DONNELLY - as witness to the marriage. ;)
~ Lu
-
It wasn't of course illegal for Mary Ann MASON to change her surname to DONNELLY (all that was required was that she be able to prove that her new name, "was the name by which she was commonly known". )
So whilst Mary Ann was a widow and free to remarry, it seems likely that James DONNELLY wasn't in that same position (i.e. another Mrs DONNELLY in his past.)
[A probable clue is that no wife or family was mentioned in the numerous newspaper references to his death and the notes on his funeral. ]
And after wading through a great number of articles about DONNELLY's death, I finally happened upon a more lengthy obituary which in turn led to finding more about his past.
"Manawatu Standard" - 23 June 1900 - Obituary
... James DONNELLY - at age of 20 enlisted in Irish Constabulary and afterwards migrated to Victoria (AUS) ;
- he came to NZ in 1863 when he joined the Colonial Defence forces and was in 4 engagements in Taranaki during the Maori wars ;
- in 1867 he entered the Police Force - was stationed at various places including Wanganui - Wairarapa - Palmerston North ;
- Since 1890 (following retirement from the Police force) he had been Inspector of Weights and Measures in Wellington.
continued next >>
-
Can place "James DONNELLY - Police Constable" at Masterton (Wairarapa) in March 1868, and "James DONNELLY, District Constable" April 1877- ("Manawatu Times") Palmerston North, from where I think he went on to Wanganui.
And while there were other police officers named DONNELLY referred to in the newspapers without a christian name, I believe the Sergeant DONNELLY involved with a Constable BUCHANAN at Wanganui (1879 and earlier), is James DONNELLY.
You'll need to read through these Court cases to get "the drift". ;)
"Wanganui Herald"
- 18 January 1879 - R.M. Court
- 20 January 1879 - page 2 - R.M. Court
{There may be a couple of additional references in other papers too ? }
One of the above items confirms the separation of Sergeant DONNELLY and his wife - but she 'ain't named in any of them. Grrrr !!
"Wanganui Chronicle" - 1 February 1879 - Local and General
- Police Changes ... reports Sergeant DONNELLY is to be transferred to Wellington.
~ Lu
-
Hi Luc - well that sure answers that question doesnt it. Thanks heaps. Does make interesting reading too doesnt it? As you say nothing to prevent Mary Ann calling herself whatever she wished but it does explain why no wedding between the two. I wonder if her family knew??? and I wonder if he had children. No doubt his Will might shed light on that do you think? Oh what a web we weave etc etc etc I do wonder what they would have thought that umpteen years down the track family are 'digging up these secrets' One ofmy great grandfathers' was what I would call an oldfashioned cad! and my cousins and I often talk about what he would think if he knew we had dug up all the 'bits' about his life that he thought he had covered up??? :D cheers from here Patsy
-
Hi again Patsy
Hmmm ... the following won't excite you (but no need to go into a "spin", just yet.) :D
Have been doing a bit more digging re: immigrants per the "Indian Queen" - in particular looking very hard at the records on the Petone Settlers Database (which I see someone gave you the link to in the other forum.)
[Should just explain though, that this Petone Museum (Early Wellington Settlers) database is compiled (for the most part) from "family-submitted information", and as such should be treated with caution. There is too a propensity for persons sharing a surname, to be lumped together under the "Is Related To" category, when that isn't necessarily the case. Despite that, the database is still a useful resource - just needs a bolder "user beware" tag. ;D ]
So on that site you will have seen a number of entries for -- "MASON - J.A. /" John or J. MASON" ... associated with the immigrant ships "Kinnaird" and "Indian Queen" - dates ranging from 1856 to 1859. [The "Kinnaird" apparently falls into the same category as the "I/Queen" in that "passenger " info is only available from the promissory notes records. ]
Earlier I mentioned being puzzled that the MASON aboard the "Indian Queen" was indexed as "MASON - J. A.", and it now transpires that this was one "John Augustus MASON" (with his wife (Jane ?) and 2 children).
Confirmation can be found in the obituary of John Augustus MASON who died at Lower Hutt (nr. Welllington) in 1915. "Evening Post" - 8 June 1915 - Personal Matters :
see next >>
~ Lu
-
Think I read somewhere that you thought your John MASON may have a connection to William MASON and his son William Frederick MASON - both of whom also resided for a time in Molesworth Street, Thorndon Flat ??
I'd explored the idea of your John MASON perhaps arriving in NZ as a very young child but flagged that, because one of the Petone database records shows a "John MASON" (arrived 1858 - ship "KINNAIRD") with sureties having been given by "W.F. MASON and Wm. MASON".
[That all these MASON's lived in the vicinity of Molesworth Street, makes me think they might have a family connection ?? ]
So, will now have a look at Archives to see what else can be found.
[William MASON above, was the Blacksmith chap (d. 1866) - after whom the "Mason Steps" in Wellington were named. "Evening Post" - 29 January 1913 ]
~ Lu
-
Hi again Patsy
In the Will of your John MASON (1869) was any of his property (real estate), detailed at all ? If so, details might be helpful.
* Also, meant to ask earlier about what became of dau. Helena Augusta MASON (as I couldn't see a marriage for her) ??
~ Lu
-
Hi Luc, Helena Augustus MASON married James McDONNELL 18 Dec 1885 in Napier I have copy of marr reg. Says father John Mason mother Mary Ann MARSHALL witnesses were W Mason and Ellen Gertrude Mason (her brother and sister in law) and I have a copy of her birth reg born in Wgtn father John Mason contractor, mother Mary Ann Marshall so know I have correct parents. Sorry John's Will only stated leaving everything to his wife and if she predeceased him to his children. No sign of anything about the property he owned at all.
It seems that it isnt my John Mason on the Indian Queen so its start again I presume? nothing is easy is it?? :-\ Maybe he is the one on the Kinnaird ??? and yes it was the occupation of Blacksmith that made me wonder about a family connection dont know why either and the living in the same area. thanks so much for your help Luc you sure are better at this than I am ! cheers Patsy
-
Hi Luc, I found the passenger list for the Kinnaird online at Our Stuff and it lists a Mr and Mrs Mason and family as arriving so maybe THIS is them :D Need now to see if I can access the original list.
cheers
Patsy
-
Hi again Luc, reading the Petone database I note that the John Mason arriving on the Kinnaird is listed as "being related to" Jane Chambers Mason and John Augustus Mason and may be he IS as that could be why he names his daughter Helen Augusta Mason?? so both these Mason families could be part of a wider family unit? I know you say that "being related to" may not of course be correct the naming of Helena can may be a pointer? what do you think? cheers Patsy
-
Hi Luc, Helena Augustus MASON married James McDONNELL 18 Dec 1885 in Napier I have copy of marr reg. Says father John Mason mother Mary Ann MARSHALL witnesses were W Mason and Ellen Gertrude Mason (her brother and sister in law) and I have a copy of her birth reg born in Wgtn father John Mason contractor, mother Mary Ann Marshall so know I have correct parents. Sorry John's Will only stated leaving everything to his wife and if she predeceased him to his children. No sign of anything about the property he owned at all.
Hee, hee ... no wonder I couldn't find Helena's marriage ... NZ BDM and NZSG both have her indexed as "Gertrude" MASON. ??? ;D
Cheers - never mind about John's will.
~ Lu
-
Hi Luc, I found the passenger list for the Kinnaird online at Our Stuff and it lists a Mr and Mrs Mason and family as arriving so maybe THIS is them :D Need now to see if I can access the original list.
cheers
Patsy
ooops ...yep, sorry, had forgotten to mention the "Kinnaird" list (transcript) was online.
[Must re-check that as I forgot to make a note of its source. ]
:-[
-
Sorry about that meant to say she was listed under Gertrude. Caused me no end of trouble one of those ones where the Vicar fills out the info AFTER the event probably thought "oh dear what was her name again" took a look at her signature and thought Gussie, of course her name was Gertrude, when in fact Gussie was a nickname for Augusta.
Have noticed that William Mason of Molesworth St died in an accident (careless lot werent they??) and that he arrived in 1842 must try and track down WHERE he came from and see if its anywhere near where John and Mary Ann came from.
cheers again
Patsy
-
Hi Luc, I found a facebook site for William Mason and discover that yes he is from Landiacre in Derbyshire now I cant find Landiacre??? cant seem to get any info apart from one or two mentions I have tried GENUKI and nothing on there either I want to know how far it is from Alfreton. going to try google earth next :D
-
Hello Patsy,
Could it be Sandiacre?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandiacre
Cheers Janette
-
Ok, there IS a place also called SANDIACRE so maybe thats where he was from it is only 12 miles from Alfreton where John and Mary Ann married so ??? perhaps - I guess I need to find a common family member
cheers again
-
Hi Patsy
[Drat ... having some trouble at the mo, getting my "posts" to post. GRRR !
Just lost a whole lot of info so will have to try it again. ]
Yep, it is indeed "Sandiacre" - Derbyshire.
And I'd earlier found a census return 1841 for William MASON - mechanic, wife Lucy (Lucy Ann), daughter Lucy, (Lucy Ann) aged 15 / son William (13) ... and John MASON aged 10 years (presumably another son ?) ... and born c. 1831 !!
Resident at Sandiacre, Derbyshire.
[Might have to "eat my hat" re: the earlier Derbyshire marriage of a John and Mary Ann - 1851 ... although it is the only MASON / MARSHALL marriage which stacks up.]
~ Lu
-
Hi Patsy
Think we're on the right track now with William MASON (Blacksmith). ;D
Incidentally, there's a 2004 message (in that other forum - r/web) re: a Lydia Ann MASON.
States that William MASON (the blacksmith) was born Warwickshire, though the MASON family were ex Nottinghamshire. That lister also has a copy of William MASON's (1866) Will (probate record) if you'd like to try contacting her. [Otherwise I'll look it up at Archives. ]
Interestingly, she mentions too that William Frederick MASON was the only child of William MASON and Lucy Ann HUNTER (although the family (2 William's // 2 Lucy Ann's) are shown on the passenger list for the "LONDON" ariiving at Wellington 1842.
~ Lu
-
Frustrating isnt it??? just got your last one twice so things are looking up ;D
My thoughts exactly when I saw John son of William born 1831 !! But there is another family with son John Mason born 1831 in Darley only 10 miles from Alfreton and one at Barrow on Trent only nine miles from Sandiacre soooooooooooo a couple to choose from. AND if we have the correct marriage John's father was John as well and both of those I mention above the father's are named John one with wife Sarah the other with wife Lucy not a lot of help but could be either occupations of the father's are gardener and ag lab (not helpful) and there doesnt seem to be any family names that I can cotton on to either. makes for interesting search if nothing else. Im leaning toward the one from Barrow on Trent ::) dont ask me why lol just for the heck of it really. chers
-
ooops ... meant to add re: 1841 census ... NONE of the MASON's were born in county (of Derbyshire).
-
Our mails crossed obviously.
I will see if I can contact the lady in question but could you checkout the Will when you are at Archives anyway thanks Luc. Not sure why she would say only son when there was John mentioned especially in the 1841 census. Children were William, Lucy and John. Possibly back then person didnt have access to census of course. now heres a thing WAS that John that belongs to William and Lucy ON THAT Passenger list if not then he could have been left behind and he COULD be mine and came out later, families often left one behind when they came out (hedging their bets!!) cheers
-
Mails crossed again and I saw that they were not Derbyshire people but how do we know where they came from??
-
Hi Patsy
No, John MASON wasn't on the "LONDON" (1841) passenger list (that I could see) ... and yes, I think probably left behind in England (which seems perhaps a little odd - but of course they did things like that in those days) ? [Have often been tempted to leave my own kids behind in foreign countries ! :D ]
~ Lu
-
ok answered my own question John not on the list so you may be correct we on the right track with William which is why he sponsored John's passage do you think?
How come though that marriage of John and Mary says John's father is also named John?????? drat!!
-
Frustrating isnt it??? just got your last one twice so things are looking up ;D
My thoughts exactly when I saw John son of William born 1831 !! But there is another family with son John Mason born 1831 in Darley only 10 miles from Alfreton and one at Barrow on Trent only nine miles from Sandiacre soooooooooooo a couple to choose from.
Hi Patsy
I'd ruled the Darley-born one out when I looked the other day - (for the reason I think, that he was still in UK after 1861 ?)
-
?
How come though that marriage of John and Mary says John's father is also named John?????? drat!!
Duh ... must have missed something ?? ;D Where did you find the John / Mary marriage info ??
~ Lu
-
I used the Family search online and up it popped.
John Mason
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
birth: 1831
marriage: 29 Nov 1852 Alfreton,Derby,England
parents: John Mason
spouse: Mary Ann Marshall
groom's name: John Mason
groom's birth date: 1831
groom's age: 21
bride's name: Mary Ann Marshall
bride's birth date: 1832
bride's age: 20
marriage date: 29 Nov 1852
marriage place: Alfreton,Derby,England
groom's father's name: John Mason
bride's father's name: William Marshall
indexing project (batch) number: M04627-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1041620
I use the Archer software search and is great you can zero in on each parish from the start. wonderful stuff
-
Cool ... cheers. ;)
It might have stacked up if the father's forenames had been swapped around ... eh ? :D [Have to trust that the indexers got them in the correct order ? ;) ]
~ Lu
-
I see the "KINNAIRD" (1859) passenger list transcript was taken from info published in the "Wellington Independent - 9 February 1859.
Of the passengers in steerage (another item states) ..." the majority of them have arrived to join their friends under the Provincial Government Regulations".
I'm hopeful then that I can track down at Archives the Promissiory Note records or the Cash Book, pertaining to to this voyage. I see too (Petone d/base) that "John MASON - Location: Molesworth Street" has a note alongside of his name regarding "correspondence concerning the repayment of passage money ... 19/09/1863". Will try to find that too.
-
I actually did think of that and may have to get a copy of the marriage to satisfy myself if nothing else eventuates. It would be great if you could scare up that promissory note stuff at Archives Luc most appreciated. May William's Will could also hold something that puts everything in context fingers crossed. cheers again
-
Hi Patsy
{Mmm ... just had a thought about the (1866) Will of William MASON - if the lister who has the copy of this, only mentions Wm. Frederick as being a son, then possibly he is the only child named in it ? ;)}
Will check it out though ... and the other records I previously offered to look up.
Hopefully will get it done by week's end.
~ Lu
-
I know what you mean still you never know. No hurry just when you are next at Archives Luc. If you want anything here in ChCh let me know as I am in the city at least once a week.
cheers and thanks again
Patsy
-
Hello again Luc, should have got your email address. We will be away until late Saturday my daughter in law is unwell and we have to make a dash to their place for a few days. So dont worry about the Archives stuff as I wont be home until them. cheers Patsy
-
Hi Luc
back from our trip away which was very enjoyable and we had wonderful weather too boot. The camper went well and now its just a case of doing the 'houseworl' and getting it ready for the next trip. Did you get to Archives last week? no matter just wondering. cheers Patsy (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
-
Hi Patsy
Have just come online so will go back over thread as a refresher "to where we're at". ;)
Yes, managed to get to Archives early last week ... have lots to tell (and a bit more, besides.) :D Will begin to add it all shortly.
[Unfortunately I don't have access to the messaging facility in this forum so am unable to send info via PM or email. Please understand also that I'm not in a position to photograph Archive documents or produce copious notes (largely due to time constraints.) What I can offer though is to view Archives files and extract any information which may lead to progressing a search. Have had lots of experience in doing this. ] :)
Back soon.
~ Lu
-
Thanks so much Luc and I dont expect you to do copious amounts of research just give me a few pointers if you can and I am very grateful for your help. cheers
-
Hi again Patsy
Have lots of info to add here, and will attempt to post it in an order that will hopefully not confuse you. :D
-----------
Firstly, the John MASON (J. A. MASON) who arrived in Wellington on the "Indian Queen" in 1857, can be eliminated. [As per Obituary for John Augustus MASON (1915). And have since been able to confirm (death notice) that his wife was in fact "Julia". ]
Whilst the Petone Settlers Database (Immigrant information) is a useful tool, it is in my opinion, ;D unreliable in the areas where it shows "Is related to" (- there is no supporting evidence, and it appears to be "pure guesswork based on surname association". The database is compiled from "family-supplied" information.)
However, via the "clue" provided on the Petone database > John MASON and family - per "Kinnaird - arrived 1859 -- with sureties given by W.F. and Wm. MASON < have been able to establish that this is the John MASON most likely to be "yours".
I'll come back to this ("Kinnaird" voyage) subject in a later post - 'cos it needs some explaining. ;D
~ Lu
-
Extract from Probate File of ~
William MASON, Blacksmith of Wellington NZ - Deceased 12 November 1866
[Besides containing the last Will and Testament of William MASON, this file was largely made up of details of accounts relating to the Estate, which were dated up to 1873. ]
The most helpful piece of information was to be found in the following statement :
[Excerpt]
"In the Will of William MASON - Deceased :
Petition of T.H. CLAPHAM, late Publican of Wellington - Filed 22 August 1873
THAT William MASON, Blacksmith, late of Wellington, Deceased, by his Will dated 10 January 1860, devised unto James WALLACE and the Petitioner all his property both real and personal UPON TRUST for his grandchildren as tenants in common.
THAT deceased left six (6) grandchildren of his only child William Frederick MASON, one only of whom is of age, the others being minors, but one of whom is married to Frederick Walter (or WALLIS ?) HODDER."
[ Another note on file confirms that William Frederick MASON is the father of the children (i.e. grandchildren) referred to in Will and that Edward MASON, son of William Frederick MASON, is the only one "of age". ]
[[Note: Lydia Ann MASON married Fredk. W. HODDER in 1873. ]]
------------------------------------------
So above confirms that John MASON (1831 - 1869) was not a son of this William MASON (but that does not preclude John from having been related in some way, and it seems possible that he may have been a nephew of William. Further info to come on this aspect. )
continues >
-
Hi Luc, it seems that reading Wm Mason's Will was the best bet doesnt it? it certainly confirms that John is NOT his son but as you say could be nephew maybe? also good to eliminate the other John Mason as well thanks so much. So it seems I must have another look at the census etc and see if I can find another John Mason that fits the bill. You are wonderful thanks so much for the help
cheers
Patsy
-
WILLIAM MASON, Blacksmith of Wellington - d. 1866 :
Just adding at this point some further info for William MASON from various sources, as it is now known that both he and his son, W.F. MASON, sponsored other immigrants to Wellington (and these persons also have a MASON connection). ;)
[This additional info may be of help (later) in finding further details for your John MASON.]
* Found an M/I [source: Wellington Library], for Lucy Ann MASON - died 1855, aged 30 - buried Bolton Street Cemetery : It stated that she was the second daughter of Lucy Ann and William MASON.
* That lead to the following finds at FamilySearch :
Mary Ann MASON - baptised 25 May 1823 - at Radford, Nottinghamshire, ENG.
- d/o William and Lucy Ann MASON
Ann Lucy MASON - baptised 11 October 1825 - at St. Mary, Nottingham
- d/o William and Lucy Ann
------------
Couldn't find a baptism for a "William Frederick MASON" though trees (@ ancestry and a "submitted entry" @ familySearch) show "William Frederick MASON - baptised Nottingham, St. Mary - 6 June 1828 - Father: William, occupation Lacemaker / Mother: Lucy Ann - abode: Grosvenor Place : Ref. # 13680 " :
Nor anything for a John MASON (bc 1831) who might have been a son of this couple.
-------------------
Additionally, there was also this marriage entry (@ familySearch) : ???
William MASON - Lucy Ann WHITEHEAD - 4 August 1822
Saint Peter, Nottingham.
[You'll recall that the researcher, referred to earlier, who gave info re: Lydia Ann MASON (2004 thread), stated that William Frederick MASON's mother was "Lucy Ann - nee HUNTER". ??? ]
---------------
The connection between William and Lucy Ann MASON and others whom I'll detail shortly, "hinges on" a place named Radford, Nottinghamshire and also the churches of St. Peter and St. Mary.
continues >
-
Hi Patsy
Like I said ... lots more to come. :D
[Have got some info too from UK census returns, will add this shortly ... but no harm of course in you searching further. ] ;)
~ Lu
-
Thanks Luc now where did the fact that Nottinghamshire comes in to it please? I have looked at everything I have and the only County I have note of is Derbyshire where John and Mary Ann married. Not sure where the Nottinghamshire comes in and I have obviously missed something :( No point in me searching Derby census if they were in Nottinghamshire. Mind you I have spent some time doing just that and nothing seems to pop up as such. cheers
-
Have to admit there is better luck in the Nottinghamshire census. Now just need to know HOW I know that John came from Nottinghamshire originally??? :)
-
Like the "Indian Queen" (1857), there is no "official" record of ALL immigrants who were aboard the "Kinnaird" to Wellington in 1859. [Although for the "Kinnaird" we have the passenger list info originally sourced from a newspaper report.]
These two vessels and a number of others, were part of an Immigration Scheme known as the "Black Ball Contract" (named I think, after the shipping line who transported the emigrants to Wellington). The scheme allowed for persons already resident in the Colony, to bring out to NZ, their relatives and friends.
There's an interesting article (from 1857) giving all the conditions etc. at ...
"Wellington Independent" - 16 February 1859 - page 1 / column 4
-----------
But unlike the "Indian Queen", there is no particular list showing the actual number of Promissory Notes held by each of the immigrants (or heads of family on behalf of others). So it's been a case of having to scour the (unindexed) "Cash Books" and "Outward Letters" and other "Correspondence" to glean a little more information. :D
------------
MASON - John and family - per "KINNAIRD" (1859) appeared in a cash book dated 1860 ... with the amount of "50 pounds 10s" alongside of his name (and a note that Wm. MASON had provided the surety). Only marginally helpful - but it did give a clue that that amount of passage money probably represented "a husband, wife, and two children under the age of 12".
Directly above that listing though was a "Jno. LEIGHTON and family" (for the same amount) ... sponsored by "W.F. MASON" !!!
And John LEIGHTON (as I've now discovered), also has a MASON family connection.
see next >>
-
Hi Patsy
... just about to explain (what I think is) the "Nottinghamshire" connection.
-
John LEIGHTON and family to Wellington 1859 per "Kinnaird".
[Sureties provided by : W. F. MASON and William MASON ]
This John LEIGHTON who settled in Wellington, had a wife named Anna.
It appears that the two children who travelled with them were daughters, Elizabeth Sarah (b. Radford, Notts. - Mar 1855) and Ruth Mary LEIGHTON (b. 1857 - Portsea, Hampshire). Further children born from 1860 at Wellington.
John LEIGHTON - died at Wellington 1871 aged 43 years [bc 1828] :
He is buried at Bolton Street Cemetery with wife Anna LEIGHTON - died 1916 aged 87 years [bc 1829 and dau. (Katie) Catherine Anna - d. 1880.]
From FamilySearch :
Marriage at Radford, Nottinghamshire - June 1852
John LEIGHTON - Anna MASON
-----------------------
Baptism: 28 December 1828 at Radford, Nottinghamshire
Anna MASON
Parents: John MASON and Ruth
-------------------------
John MASON
Born : 9 January 1831
Baptised : 10 February 1831
Parents : John and Ruth MASON
Wesleyan, Nottingham, ENG
----------
Thomas MASON - baptised 15 December 1833 (John & Ruth MASON)
-- at Radford, Nottinghamshire
William MASON - baptised 1826 (died 2 March 1827) (John & Ruth MASON)
-- at Radford, Nottinghamshire
______________________
No guarantees ... (and maybe a bit strange that one is a Wesleyan baptism ?), but it seems a fair chance that the John MASON born 1831 is the brother of Anna LEIGHTON ? And (the 1831) birth, is that of your John MASON ??
continues next >>
-
@ FamilySearch also ...
Marriage - 9 January 1826 - Gedling, Nottinghamshire
John MASON - Ruth BRITTLE
----------------------
Baptism - 25 March 1804 - Gedling, Notts.
Ruth BRITTLE
Parents: Thomas and Anna
-----------------------
-
Hi Patsy
What I'm not finding (so far) is any 1841 / 1851 census info for the MASON family of John and Ruth (parents) with children Anna (bc 1828) / John ( bc 1831) etc. ???
So, have John and Ruth MASON died before 1841 ... and their children been "farmed off" to other rellies ??
Lots more diggin' to do. :D
~ Lu
-
I can only say BLIMEY you sure have the knack of digging out the facts. I see what you mean about being family though and maybe going on the balance of probablities etc etc my John MASON is the brother of Anna Leighton too much of a coincidence otherwise wouldnt you say? You are very good at this Luc thanks heaps I would never have found anything without you. I hd been digging in the 1841 census but didnt find Ruth and John either. cheers Patsy
-
Even searching on the children isnt yeilding any results for the 1841 census cant see Anna or Thomas OR John. Mind you I am not that reliable from what I can gather I keep missing people hopeless!!! :D Still working on it though. cheers
-
Still looking for the family and have to say that I am disappointed still that Family Search doesnt cover deaths and burials. Seems you may be right and Ruth and John had died? prior to 1841 census I have the NBI and there is a couple of Ruth Masons' mentioned but neither are ours. There are 7 John's in the right time frame but none seem to fit either.
-
Hi Luc Found a death registration for a John MASON reg Radford in 1838 but again nothing for Ruth.
-
Hi again Luc, still searching, got my new Fam Tree mag this morning and free month on The Genealogist.co.uk so joined up and looking for what MUST be at least 2 chidlren for John and mary Ann found a RUTH Mason born 1857 reg in Belper?? but then wondered if they were still IN Belper or had gone back to Nottinghamshire. (sigh) not easy is it? ??? So if John's mother was Ruth Brittle then maybe this child is named for her??? then again no sign of a Ruth MASON here in NZ in marriges etc so........ like looking for a needle in a haystack :) cheers
-
Hi Luc just done a search on the NZSG CD and note that the certificate collection has a couple for Anna Leighton including what I think is her death certificate so I am going to get a copy and hopefully it may have information like her parents!! that may give us a clue.
-
Hello Luc, thought you might like to know that I had a reply today from the National Library they had a reference to the Lodge that John belonged to and they sent me a copy of the Minutes that mentioned the accident his death and that they would pay funeral expenses. So another bit to add. cheers
-
Hi Patsy
.... haven't forgotten you. ;D
[Still have more to come for MASON and DONNELLY ... just need some time without interruptions to sift through the info. ]
Meanwhile ... keep up the great work you're doing with all those "finds". :)
~ Lu
-
Hi Luc thought you might like to know found a 'cousin' related to the Leighton's. She has "somewhere" a copy of a diary that John Leighton kept on the voyage out that mentions meeting John Mason and his family in London before they sailed. NO mention of the children's names though darn it?? Yes Anna is John's sister so that clears that up if nothing else. Of course (isnt it always the way) she hasnt any Mason info!! Also the info in Papers Past about a widow Mary Ann MASON running a VERY bad house of ill repute (or similar) it mentions children as well and the ages are within cooee of John and Mary Ann's. She got 3months jail and the children were left destitute. Surely though this isnt the same Mary Ann that ended up living with James Connelly? I sort of cant see a policeman taking up with someone who really sounds like she was a bad one?? Unless of course she pulled her socks up when she finally got out of jail.!! cheers Patsy
-
Also the info in Papers Past about a widow Mary Ann MASON running a VERY bad house of ill repute (or similar) it mentions children as well and the ages are within cooee of John and Mary Ann's. She got 3months jail and the children were left destitute. Surely though this isnt the same Mary Ann that ended up living with James Connelly? I sort of cant see a policeman taking up with someone who really sounds like she was a bad one?? Unless of course she pulled her socks up when she finally got out of jail.!! cheers Patsy
Hi Patsy
Good news with the John LEIGHTON connection. "Baby" steps in this hunt ... but it's all progress ! ;)
Can you post the link please re: Mary Ann MASON ... where it mentions her children ?
[Looked all over ... but couldn't find that particular item. ]
Cheers
~ Lu
-
Hi
Mmmm yes, I'd read about the Mary Ann MASON (Molesworth Street) earlier but after a while, dismissed it as being the same one. Mary Ann appeared to be such a hard-working woman ... taking over John's business etc. and it all seemed (maybe), out of character.
But ... the "Evening Post" article - 15 March 1878 - Resident Magistrate's Court, identifies a "William JENKINS" who states he is the son-in-law of Mary Ann MASON.
Marriage
Elizabeth Ann MASON - William JENKINS -- 1878
They didn't actually marry until December of that year - Marriage Notice - "Evening Post" - 16 December 1878 - page 2 :
[Birth reg'd 1860 - Elizabeth Ann MASON - d/o Mary Ann and John ]
-
... and this death notice :
"Evening Post" - 21 November 1918 - page 1 - Deaths
JENKINS - on 20 November 1918 at Sydney Street Hospital, Marshall John JENKINS b/l s/o Elizabeth Ann JENKINS, 11 a Wingfield Street ; aged 34 years :
-----------
Elizabeth Ann JENKINS lived to age 85 (d. 1946).
Buried at Karori Cemetery, Wellington with husband William and son "Jack" (Marshall John JENKINS).
Photos of plot available too. Cemetery search at >>
http://www.wellington.govt.nz
-
Hi Luc Evening Post 28 Nov 1874. Is letter to the paper re the children but it doesnt mention names just the ages.
The William Jenkins seems most likely to belong to John and Mary Ann doesnt he as they had a daughter Elizabeth Ann and of course the Marshall name fixes it really. So now I have to find out what happened to our Mary Ann Donnelly (Mason) lol it sure makes for interesting days if nothing else. So maybe it WAS our Mary Ann that went to jail for 3 months for running an illegal house
I also got a copy of the Mason/Donnelly/Brown marriage however Mary Ann says she was born in Co Wickow Ire and her parents were William Fox and Ellen Sutton so thats a turnup for the books I thought her maiden name was Marshall??? and if its not her what on earth have we unearthed. She has date of death of James Donnelly correct (22 Jun 1900)so it would seem to be the correct marriage. I am now thoroughly confused ??? AND her age on the marriage cert is 47 which makes her birth c 1854 whereas our Mary Ann Marshall was born c1832 Yikes methinks muddled :o Possibly lying about her age though of course. cheers
-
Hi again Luc - I did a marriage search on free bmd found a Mary Ann Fox marrying a James Marshall in Stoke Demerel Devon in 1848? so ??? just adds to the confusion really. Devon is a long way from Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire but guess its not impossible. And Devon of course leads itself to someone from Ireland crossing the sea to there. Im getting grumpy :D (not really)
-
I also got a copy of the Mason/Donnelly/Brown marriage however Mary Ann says she was born in Co Wickow Ire and her parents were William Fox and Ellen Sutton so thats a turnup for the books I thought her maiden name was Marshall??? and if its not her what on earth have we unearthed. She has date of death of James Donnelly correct (22 Jun 1900)so it would seem to be the correct marriage. I am now thoroughly confused ??? AND her age on the marriage cert is 47 which makes her birth c 1854 whereas our Mary Ann Marshall was born c1832 Yikes methinks muddled :o Possibly lying about her age though of course. cheers
Hi Patsy
Jeepers ... that 1901 Mary Ann DONNELLY / William BROWN marriage cert. really is ODD ! :o
When I was at Archives the other week, I also dug up the Intention to Marry Notice.
ITM # 561 - 26 November 1901 - Wellington
BROWN - William - Baker - 54 years - Widower
Length of Residence : 6 years
Intends to marry ...
DONNELLY - Mary Ann - 47 Years - Widow
Length of Residence : 25 years
Marriage Certificate Issued : 26 November 1901
R. Talbot - Deputy Registrar
-----------------------------
From Marriage cert. can you tell me please,
* Are their places of residence noted (addresses) ?
* Names / Occupations, of Witnesses to marriage ?
~ Lu
-
Hi again Patsy
re: 1901 Marriage ... I see you've noted it as Mason/Donnelly/Brown ??
* I'm guessing it doesn't though have a reference to Mary Ann DONNELLY being previously "MASON" (or MARSHALL) ??
-----------
Also ... please can you tell me the occupation given for William FOX (father of the bride) ?
Cheers
~ Lu
-
From Electoral Rolls :
1896 - Wellington
DONNELLY
- Hughena Jessie - Married - Evelyn Place*
- Marshall John - Clerk - Webb Street
- Mary Anne - Married Woman - Webb Street
- James - Sergeant of Police - Lambton Quay*
[Notes: * James DONNELLY ... died at his residence "7 Evelyn Place" - June 1900 :
James DONNELLY, according to his obituary, had left the Police Force "ten years prior to his death" - c. 1890 -- but in 1896 occupation still shown as "police sergeant" ?
Hughena Jessie (w/o Marshall John) is at Evelyn Place ? Mary Ann (Anne) (presumably the mother of Marshall John) at Webb Street ?? Can only conclude that James / Mary Ann and Marshall John are maybe recorded on roll with their addresses being their places of work or business ?? ]
1900 roll to follow >
-
Electoral :
1900 - Wellington City Roll
DONNELLY
- Hughena Jessie - married - Evelyn Place
- Marshall John - clerk - Webb Street
- Mary Ann - 71c Ghuznee Street - married woman
- James - Sergeant of Police - Martin Square* (residential)
[Notes: James DONNELLY - deceased June 1900, still on Roll (haven't checked the "removals from roll" section).
Mary Ann DONNELLY at a different address from 1896 ? ]
Also on same roll, this listing >>
BROWN - William - 71c Ghuznee Street - seaman* ??
[* So is this the same William BROWN who marries a Mary Ann DONNELLY (widow of James DONNELLY, Sergeant of Police) in 1900 ? ]
A William BROWN - cook, and Mary Ann BROWN - married -- are listed at 157 Taranaki Street, Wellington in 1911.
[We know William BROWN who married the Mary Ann in 1901 was a "baker" by occupation. Possibly then he is the 1911 man listed as a "cook" ? And if he was a cook, then he might also have done a "stint at sea" in that capacity, so could be the chap listed as a "seaman" in 1900 ?? There was only one other Mary Ann (Anne) DONNELLY on Wellington rolls (w/o of Francis, warder at Mt View Asylum). ]
-
Here's the Karori Cemetery link >>
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/search/search.php
Hi Patsy
It might be worthwhile getting in touch with the Karori Cemetery office (email addy at above link under "Parks and Gardens") to see if they can offer any further info on the Mary Ann (d. 1913 - aged 70)
and William BROWN (d. 1914 - aged 64) burials.
e.g. Name of Plot purchaser (1913) ... address of (or any other info ) Next of Kin etc.
Address / occupation of William BROWN (d. 1914)
~ Lu
-
... incidentally, I wasn't able to find death or funeral notices for Mary Ann BROWN (1913) / William BROWN (1914) - though sometimes they're tucked away in the advertising columns. Only found the "Bereavement Thanks" - "Evening Post" - 26 September 1913 - page 1 -- W. BROWN .. thanking hospital staff re: his wife Mary Ann BROWN.
~ Lu
-
Hi again Patsy
Precis of the Will of James DONNELLY - died at Wellington, 22 June 1900 :
[Probate File: Archives NZ ref: AAOM 6029 W3265 Box 126/ Record # 7014 ]
WILL of James DONNELLY - dated 25 March 1898 (at Wellington)
* Appoints Public Trustee as Executor
* Directs ... that my property at Martin Square, Part Section 229 in the City of Wellington, be available for the use of my wife Mary Ann DONNELLY absolutely, during her life, to receive all rents, profits and income from same.
* (Upon death of Mary Ann DONNELLY) ... my Executors to sell property with proceeds for the three children (or their issue) of my brother Samuel DONNELLY, formerly Mounted Constable in the Police Force in the Colony of South Australia.
~~~~~~~~----------
Probate granted to the Public Trustee (NZ) - 25 July 1900
~~~~~~~~----------
Included on the file was an Affidavit concerning the death of James DONNELLY, dated 22 June 1900, whereby Marshall John Mason DONNELLY, clerk of Wellington, attested that he had known the deceased, James DONNELLY.
______________________________________________________________
-
Hi Luc.
Mariage states: 26 Nov 1901 William Brown (Baker) age 54 widower Aug 1885 bn Hertfordshire UK father William Brown (baker) mother Mary Ann Brown formerly Crabb.
Mary Ann Donnelly age 47 widow 22 Jun 1990 bn Co Wicklow Ire, Father William Fox farmer mother Ellen Fox formerly Sutton
Witnesses Mary Cronin wife of Maurice Cronin Broadway Terrace Wellington
Norah McCarthy Cambridge Terrace Wellington hotel keeper.
Sorry no it didnt say anything about Mary Ann previously being Mason although it lists her surname as Donnelly. Places of residence just noted as Wellington for both of them
Wonder when the Wgtn city roll was made up??? Mary Ann and William Brown were living at same address but James Donelly was listed at another?? if made up BEFORE James died in June then something amiss as I would hardly think he would leave his property to her if she was living with another man???? However as you say could be business addresses and maybe Mary Ann had a boarding house ?? Its all getting to be a bit much really lol.
I will email the cemetery and see what information I can get about the burials etc.
AND I wonder why Marshall John didnt get anything from the WIll? it seems he had quite a lot to do with James so thats strange isnt it? - more and more confusing as I look at it?? :o cheers
-
Hi again Luc
VERY fast resonse from Karori cemetery they send me info that says UNPURCHASED plot whatever that means and that the Funeral Director/Customer was MORRIS if thats any help. no other information for either burials just name date and age. cheers Patsy
-
Hi Patsymac,
I suspect UNPURCHASED meant that the city paid for the grave. I've struck this before with a pauper's grave at Karori.
Spades
-
thanks Spades just had another reply from Karen at Karori she told me "We have a lot of unpurchased plots here in the Cemetery from years ago, so not uncommon really. Just the family didn't purchase it, not like today where you need to purchase a plot prior to a burial." Maybe it meant they didnt have the money?? not too sure - cheers
-
Hi Luc.
Mariage states: 26 Nov 1901 William Brown (Baker) age 54 widower Aug 1885 bn Hertfordshire UK father William Brown (baker) mother Mary Ann Brown formerly Crabb.
Mary Ann Donnelly age 47 widow 22 Jun 1990 bn Co Wicklow Ire, Father William Fox farmer mother Ellen Fox formerly Sutton
Witnesses Mary Cronin wife of Maurice Cronin Broadway Terrace Wellington
Norah McCarthy Cambridge Terrace Wellington hotel keeper.
Sorry no it didnt say anything about Mary Ann previously being Mason although it lists her surname as Donnelly. Places of residence just noted as Wellington for both of them
Hi Patsy
OH MY GOSH !! ::)
Hmmm ... just looked at NZ Marriages ... AND found >>
James DONNELLY - Mary Ann FOX -- 1864
[So, it would seem it might be this Mary Ann DONNELLY who James has referred to "as my dear wife", in his will ?? ]
Back to the drawing board methinks.
-
BUT ... the Mary Ann DONNELLY who marries William BROWN (1901) states she is 47 years [bc 1854 ] .... (or was she older ?). [Would need to have been to have married James DONNELLY in 1864 ??? ]
-
Hi Luc, getting confusing isnt it?? Although age may be incorrect if vicar didnt write it down correctly and she may have taken 10 years off her age cause William Brown was only 54. Doesnt help with John Mason's Mary Ann though does it??? did she get involved with James Donnelly? obviously if Marshall said that he favoured his step father. So she never married William Brown so what happened to her?? There is no death that fits for a Mary Ann Mason for after James died. No deaths for a Mary Ann Donnelly after 1900 that fit either grrrrrrr HOWEVER there is a death for a Mary Ann Mason in 1897 aged 66 which would be correct time frame (b1831) so now have to find out where that death was registered will ask on list and see what comes up. Or have we done that?? cheers
-
Hi Patsy
Yeah .... a real "curly" one ... but we won't give up just yet. :D
Had also found the Mary Ann MASON (aged 66 - d. 7 February 1897) ... in Christchurch. Funeral notice mentions a daughter (Mrs James LINDNER).
Burials at Linwood - Christchurch
MASON - Mary Ann - 1897 - 66 Years
Born : England
In NZ - 40 years [arrived c. 1857 ]
----------
LINDNER - James - died 1940 [Linwood - Block 47 - plot 343 ]
and in adjacent plot 342
LINDNER - Ruth - d. 1940 - aged 82 [bc 1858 ]
Born : England
In NZ - 80 years [arrived c. 1860 ]
-----------------------
Daughter named "Ruth" ??? Are we now on to something ? :D
-
See my previous post and yes you could be right I will certainly be checking it out next week the Ruth is very interesting. Hopefully the cards will have th einformation we are looking for keep your fingers crossed.
-
Did you mean birth of a "Ruth MASON reg'd. at Belper, Derbyshire - JUN 1857" ? :D
-
Patsy ... can you see a James LINDNER marriage ??
[I can't ... even using soundex on NZSG marriages CD ] ???
[Found a chap of same name at Dunedin 1895 ?? "Otago Daily Times" - 6 September 1895 - City Police Court. Re: Maintenance payment for a child of Jemima Sydney KANE (now FIELDING) ]
~ Lu
-
1896 - Christchurch Roll
LINDNER
-- James - engineer
-- Ruth - Laundress ..... both at 27 Salisbury Street
-
1885-86 - Christchurch South Roll
LINDNER - James - 227 St Asaph Street - occupation: Turner
Turner / Engineer ... sounds like same man connected with Ruth LINDNER ?
[And apologies to this Mr LINDNER in case I've confused him with the chap in the Dunedin Court Case. :-* ]
-
Hi Patsy
Mary Ann MASON (d.1897) is buried at Linwood Cemetery [Plot 226 / Block 22]
with ... ;)
William Alfred DOUGLAS - d. 30 July 1915 - aged 39 [bc 1876 @ Wellington]
-------------------------
NZ Births
1876 - MASON - William Alfred Douglas
Mother: MASON - Ruth Father: N/R
[Yay ... hopefully we're now making progress ? ]
-
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Press" (ChCh) - 2 August 1915 - page 11 / column 2
The Funeral of William Alfred DOUGLAS will leave his mother's residence, Mrs Ruth DOUGLAS, 153 Lichfield Street, today ... for Linwood Cemetery ...
-
There is no Ruth DOUGLAS living at Lichfield Street ... but this from >
1914 - Avon (ChCh) Supplementary Roll
LINDNER
Ruth
Frederick James - engineer ... both at 153 Lichfield Street
[Am supposing "Frederick James" is the same person as the "James" who is buried with Ruth ? ]
-
Probate file at Archives NZ, ChCh for >
LINDNER - James - Christchurch - Retired Engineer -- 1940
-
Okay will have to get my head around all this Luc :)
So we are saying that Ruth MASON (hopefully daughter of Mary Ann and John MASON) had a son William Alfred who was illegitimate?? son of Ruth Mason?? Ruth then ended up 'living' with James Lindner rather than marrying him?? (runs in the family it seems) I am certainly more than happy to scrabble around in the Parish Register card index and at Archives next week to see what I can find out. Hopefully it will sort itself into a nice package for us (Tui moment there) ;D The only marriage I can see is a Emelia Augusta Mason to a William Douglas in 1872?? Not Ruth thats for sure but maybe some 'goings on' ? AND it seems William buried with his grandmother perhaps. And i think that maybe Ruth was alternating between the Douglas / Lindner name because of her son maybe?? cheers and thanks
-
So we are saying that Ruth MASON (hopefully daughter of Mary Ann and John MASON) had a son William Alfred who was illegitimate?? son of Ruth Mason?? Ruth then ended up 'living' with James Lindner rather than marrying him?? (runs in the family it seems)
AND it seems William buried with his grandmother perhaps. And i think that maybe Ruth was alternating between the Douglas / Lindner name because of her son maybe?? cheers and thanks
Hi Patsy
Blimey ... long time since I've been on such a circuitous route (though a lot of this has been eliminating others). :D
But yes, feeling a lot more positive now about this Mary Ann MASON / Ruth LINDNER
connection.
* Mary Ann MASON death notice (ChCh) 1897 (age at death more or less right).
* That death notice identifies a daughter "Mrs" James LINDER (whom it transpires is named Ruth - which is a MASON / and LEIGHTON family name).
* Mary Ann buried with William Alfred DOUGLAS (bc 1876 at Wellington according to his cemetery record).
* William Alfred DOUGLAS seems most likely to be the child born 1876 to Ruth MASON (as MASON - William Alfred Douglas - father N/R) ... and his death notice 1915 identifies his mother as Ruth DOUGLAS at 153 Lichfield Street, ChCh.
(No Ruth DOUGLAS at that address on e/rolls but a Ruth LINDNER is, in 1914).
* Cemetery record 1940 (Linwood, ChCh) shows Ruth LINDNER was born c. 1858 in England ... and years in NZ puts arrival c. 1860 (which is not far off arrival of the "Kinnaird" 1859 Wellington. )
Fingers crossed then. ;D
~ Lu
-
... just digressing ... seems that Elizabeth Ann MASON had a daughter born 1876 (presumably also at Wellington). Lilian Maud MASON (reg'd. 1876) went on to become "JENKINS" (Elizabeth Ann's married name), and wed a McFARLANE.
JENKINS (Elizabeth Ann/ husband/son) and McFARLANE's in same large family plot at Karori, Wellington.
-
The only marriage I can see is a Emelia Augusta Mason to a William Douglas in 1872??
The above (shown on birth reg's for children as "Amelia") I think we can rule out.
Looks like they resided in Northland (Marsden) electorate mostly. She died 1924 (bc 1857).
-
Hi Patsy
Have just been revisiting the info previously dug up for James DONNELLY (a.k.a. Police Sergeant James DONNELLY / Constable DONNELLY).
In particular was the item from "Wanganui Herald" - 20 January 1879 -- Court appearance of Sergeant DONNELLY and Constable BUCHANAN ... where it was said that DONNELLY had elected to separate from his wife.
James DONNELLY's obituary (the "Manawatu Times" version - June 1900), stated that he'd previously been stationed at Palmerston North and Wanganui (among other places). [Found in newspapers - July 1877 - James DONNELLY, Constable at Palmerston North ... and in 1878 and later, Sergeant DONNELLY at Wanganui.]
I mention the above years, because also found in school prize-giving lists, is a child named "Marshall DONNELLY" ?? ["Manawatu Times" - 31 March 1877 - Palmerston North school ... and "Wanganui Herald" - 21 June 1878 - p. 2 -- a pupil at Wanganui Grammar School. ] Now surely there is only one Marshall DONNELLY ? [Can't see another in newspapers / NZ BMD etc. etc. ]
~ Lu
-
... anyway, the following is just "my take" on what may have happened. :D
[Now that we have some new info to hand. ]
* That during her time in Molesworth Street and the troubles she faced (poor woman, it must have been one hell of struggle for her as a widow), Mary Ann MASON had some of her children removed from her care and sent off to live with others.
* Marshall John MASON (later Donnelly) is raised (probably from at least 1877) by (Sergeant) James DONNELLY and his (real) wife, (also) named Mary Ann.
[I think you were right earlier when you said how unlikely it seemed that James DONNELLY would have had a relationship with Mary Ann MASON.]
* James DONNELLY (Policeman) may have been in Wellington area prior to going to Palmerston c. 1877 ?
* James DONNELLY and (real) wife Mary Ann, obviously reconcile at some point after their 1879 Wanganui incident. [I now think she is the Mary Ann DONNELLY on e/rolls in Wellington at Webb Street with Marshall. And although not mentioned in James DONNELLY's obit, she is probably the person who placed the "In Memoriam" notice (from wife and son) in 1901. We know now she is the Mary Ann (nee FOX) who goes on marry William BROWN (Nov. 1901) - so is likely the same Mary Ann FOX who married a James DONNELLY in 1864. ]
* ... "my dear wife Mary Ann DONNELLY" ... who was left an interest in the Estate of James DONNELLY (will dated 1898), is seemingly his legal wife, Mary Ann (nee FOX) ?
------------------
Gee ... why couldn't DONNELLY's wife have been named something other than "Mary Ann" ?? Woulda saved us an awful lot of head-scratching ... :D ;D
-
Hi Luc, yes she really must have had an awful time but do you think it is her that they talk about as having a house of ill repute???? I have a sneaky suspicion that it just might be. I wonder if she lost all the children mind you by 1877 the older ones were getting old enough and maybe that is why our Helena ended up in Napier??? she may have gone to her older brother William who was married and living in Napier. Wm and his wife were witneses at Helena's marriage. There is also a son Robert (the youngest) but dont know what happened to him as yet.
Okay maybe this time we have sorted them out. Its a bit of a giggle really because when I first started researching this family Mary Ann MASON's burial was one of the first I looked at because all the rest of the family seemed to come from ChCh (they were VERY early arrivals here) so thought that she might be in the family then of course found the Wellington connection and low and behold she just might be a connection after all?? full circle maybe?? I follow you on the James Donnelly/Mary ANn thing and like you say why didnt he marry someone called Stephanie or something :) would have made it so much easier to unravel it all. I cant thank you enough for your help there is no way I could have done this without your assistance. I will let you know what I find at the Library and Archives - cheers
-
Just had an email from Archives the Will is waiting for me so thats good. Also just wondering what made Mary Ann head to Christchurch?? Maybe it just got too hot for her in Wellington and maybe she just thought she could straighten herself out if she came down south??? the poor woman really got herself into strife if everything I have read in the papers is right. Seems it may have started as early as 1872 then went downhill from there. We do have the right person of course because of that Court Case regarding her son in law William Jenkins so no doubt really is there? cheers
-
Hi Patsy
Happy to have been able to help you out with this. (Always love these extra challenging ones). :D
Mmm ... have now just found that son William and his wife Ellie were also in Christchurch for a time. ;)
Sadly there is a death of their small child, Marshall John, in 1896 (buried also at Linwood) ... and there may have been other children born to them in ChCh ?? ... so it's possibly worth hunting through the Library Index cards.
NZ Birth
1894 - MASON - Marshall John
Parents: Ellie Gertrude and William MASON
[NZ BMD online has other births from 1884 which could be for same couple ... but with spelling of mother's name given as "Ellen" / "Helen" and ~ maybe "Ethel Gertrude" (child Ethel Maud born 1885) ?? ]
The son "Albert William" (1889 - parents: Ellie & William) I found living in Gisborne with his mother in 1914. He went on to marry and have a child, but his life ended tragically.
William MASON though is a bit of a mystery still ? [Last on e/roll at Chch in 1911 ... wife and son in Gisborne from 1914, ... and wife still showing up as "married" ?? ]
~ Lu
-
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Star" (ChCh) - 6 April 1896 - Deaths (Also in "Press" - same date)
Death Notice for Marshall John MASON aged 2, s/o Ellie and William.
---------------
Albert William MASON married Jessie Livingston FERGUSON -- 1921
Albert William was an accountant in Gisborne. His tragic death was reported in >
"Evening Post" - 21 September 1931 (Also "Auckland Star" of same date)
-
Burials at Gisborne :
Ellie Gertrude MASON - died at Gisborne aged 62 years.
She was buried at Taruheru Cemetery (Gisb.) on 20 March 1924.
[No headstone according to cemetery record. ]
Also in same cemetery (another plot) >
Albert William MASON - 42 years - buried 21 September 1931
[Photo of plaque recording "William Duncan MASON" - whom I believe was Albert's son. ]
-
From E/rolls :
MASON
1896 & 1900 - ChCh Roll - at 106 Tuam Street
In 1900, William is listed as a commission agent
1905-06 - ChCh East Roll
- Ellie - housewife
- William - advertising contractor ... at 56 St Asaph Street
1911 - ChCh East
Ellie - married - living at 343 St Asaph Street ... can't see William MASON ?
1914 - East Cape - Gisborne roll
MASON - Ellie - Stafford Street, Whataupoto - married
MASON - Albert William - same address - clerk
[No - William MASON ]
[Note: She is always shown just as "Ellie" MASON in e/rolls ]
-
Hi Luc - yippee, bingo, yay and all that jazz
Yes it is my Mary Ann. Nothing in the card index but we local genealogists have of course noted all the local headstones for all public and church cemeteries. So got out the big book for Linwood and the first Mason was Marshall John who died aged 2 as you correctly found. Next one not her but the next one was and here is what is said. Mary Ann Mason wife of John Mason late of Wellington !!! (hows that for confirmation??) d 7 Feb 1897 age 66 also her grandson William Alfred son of William and Ruth Douglas died 30 Jul 1915 age 39. Believe it or not I had this death noted in my notebook from way back and got sidetracked. I had also noted Marshall John Mason because of the name so had him definitely. Yes William and Ellen must have been here in Christchurch because Marshall was born here 21 May 1894/ They sure got around they were married in Napier in 1884 and they were in Auckland in 1918 as that is their address when notified that their eldest son William was killed in WWI. I have for sure only a further 2 daughters Ada and Lavinia. I havent actually looked for their deaths yet. Then went across the road to Archives and read the Will for James Lindner. He left all to "my dear wife" Ruth Lindner for her use absolutely though she to take care of buildings and property in her lifetime. Then he left it all to his nephew Percy Watts of Auckland (Percy was also his executor) so he obviously didnt have any children of his own and I presume it is our Ruth Mason he is referring too? All in all a VERY successful morning, then went and had lunch with a friend for his birthday so full to the brim as well :) I have already sent away for Mary Ann's death reg I really hope her parents and place of birth are noted. I will digest the other bits you have sent me and try and get them into a timeline for fitting in and see what becomes of that. Again you have been marvellous and I cant thank you enough for your help. cheers from a horrendously wet North Canterbury (forecast said showers and sunshie !!) another Tui ad ;D
-
Hi Luc, rec the copy of Mary Ann's death reg today and sadly not a lot of information. However it does say her father's name is John Marshall a Coal miner (never rely on deathreg her marriage says her father is William??) doesnt give place of birth or marriage its all unknown sadly. However it did give the ages and sex of the children which helps. The two sons were 36 (b1861 William) 34 (1865 Marshall John) and the four daughters were 40 (1857 Ruth?) 38 (1860 Elizabeth Ann) 34 (1863 Mary Ann Elizabeth) and 30 (1867 our Helena Augusta) So the family seems to be Ruth, Elizabeth, William, Mary Ann (still looking for marr for her)Marshall and Helena. It sems I may need to really try to find her baptism either in Derbyshire or Nottinghamshire and hope something comes up. Again thanks heaps for all your help cheers Patsy
-
Hi agin Luc found Ruth Lindner death and burial so have sent for her death reg and hope that it gives some more information. cheers
-
Hi Luc, I have put everything on paper and was re reading everything and thought !! oh dear, oh dear oh dear!!!. IF the Mary Ann MASON noted in the newspaper as having ended up in dire straights etc etc etc then her husband John MASON died in 1869 HOW COME her youngest child is ONLY TWO YEARS OLD??? obviously NOT a child of John's as the child would have been born in 1872 ? I checked on BMD and there is a John Middleton Legget MASON born in 1872 mother Mary Ann father not recorded could this be the 2 year old???? I seem to be finding more questions than answers (sigh) :D cheers
-
IF the Mary Ann MASON noted in the newspaper as having ended up in dire straights etc etc etc then her husband John MASON died in 1869 HOW COME her youngest child is ONLY TWO YEARS OLD??? obviously NOT a child of John's as the child would have been born in 1872 ?
I checked on BMD and there is a John Middleton Legget MASON born in 1872 mother Mary Ann father not recorded could this be the 2 year old???? I seem to be finding more questions than answers (sigh) :D cheers
Hi again Patsy
I was also curious earlier about that newspaper report (letter to editor "Evening Post") - 28 November 1874 - giving ages of Mrs Mason's children as 13 / 11/ 9 / 7 and 2 and a half. Certainly, the ages of first four stack up pretty well as being Mary Ann and John's children, but I wondered too if PAGE (the letter writer), did know for sure that the youngest was in fact a child of Mary Ann's ? Unfortunately we've only got that one item to go on. :-\
I checked the Birth microfiche records a while back (as there was also a Harriet MASON b. 1871 with a mother Mary Ann and father N/R. ??)
MASON - Harriet - birth reg'd. 1871
MASON - Harriet - death reg'd. 1871 ... both events reg'd. at Wellington
MASON - John Middleton Leggett - mother, Mary Ann - father N/R
... Fiche # 549 (Year 1872) -- registered at Wanganui.
As we know, anything is possible. :D So could be Mary Ann was residing in Wanganui for a time ??
Can't see anywhere just what became of that child.
~ Lu
-
Birth : 1872 - MASON - John Middleton Leggett - Mother: Mary Ann - Father N/R
[Registered at Wanganui ]
The above forenames are quite distinctive and maybe the child's mother was naming him for his father ???
There was a John Middleton LEGGETT in NZ who died at Dunedin in 1912 aged 78 (bc 1834). Cemetery record (Notes) gives native place as "Norfolk Island*" with what seems to be a correction, "*Durham" ? Years In NZ : 40 = arrival c. 1872.
From a rootsweb thread - 1999, a lister has copy of marriage cert. (purchased in error) for John Middleton LEGGETT to Sarah Mabel TAYLOR, 27 February 1873 at Greymouth.
NZ BDM has birth of Harriet Mabel LEGGETT - 1874 - to this couple, and a death, 1876 of Sarah Mabel LEGGETT aged 23 yrs.
Probably same man ? ... marriage 1886 John Middleton LEGGETT - Annie Edith PALSER. ["Otago Witness" marriage notice 13 March 1886 / page 17 ... LEGGAT - PALSER gives bride's name as "Hannah". She's variously Hannah or Anna on e/rolls and Dunedin cemetery record.]
John Middleton LEGGETT first on voting rolls 1875-76 - West Coast / Grey Valley.
Later he's a publican at Hampden for a while. 1896 he's at Dunedin (occupation: expressman) with Anna Edith, where he remains until his death, 1912.
[Have just added above info in case it transpires there's a link to your Mary Ann. ]
~ Lu
-
thanks for the info Luc. I had noticed the Harriet Mason as well and now that you say she was registered in Wellington but as you say the child may NOT have been hers no way of knowing. I asked on the Derybshire list for some sight of mary Ann Marshall b c1832 and had a reply from a guy that found the same census ref I did - daughter of a JOHN Marshall. there is no other that fits anywhere close . Kilbourne which is only a hope skip and a jump from Alfreton as well where she married. Trying to find her baptism as wel. 1851 census is a bit more difficult as the only Mary ANn Marshall there is aservant aged 18 and personally I think the age descrepancy is a bit much. 1841 they usually rounded up or down and in 1841 they noted her as age 12 (doesnt sound rounded up OR down to me) so at 18 in 1851 a 6 year 'gap' seems a bit much. So working on it :) thanks again for your help and I am thinking that the John Middleton Legget connection is a bit far out as I cant see mary Ann being in Wanganui- but you never know. cheers again
-
I am looking at the posts on William Mason - and wondering if there is someone who can tell me what that story is. My relationship? William Mason came to NZ on the MarthaRidgeway in 1840, with his wife Elizabeth and children, including William who married Jane Spicer (who later married Ben Houdley) after William's death in 1857. William had Samuel in 1855, who married Eugene Dash, and had my greatgrandfather Stephen Archibald Mason.
I am very interested in the comment that William funded other Mason familiies to come to NZ. In particular, is there a relationship with Thomas "Quaker" Mason? People keep mixing up Thomas's son Samuel Smart Mason (born 1854) with Williams son Samuel Mason (born 1855). Were they related?
I have been to Bolton Street Cemetery, and seen the grave that has a wooden fence that is falling apart.
-
Hello residntAngel
... welcome to RootsChat. :)
I am looking at the posts on William Mason - and wondering if there is someone who can tell me what that story is.
As can be seen, this is a very long thread, relating in the main to finding out more about a John MASON who came to Wellington. Although I had quite some involvement in assisting with researching for this (and it was some time ago), I've only skimmed back over the contents to refresh my memory.
Several "William MASON's" are mentioned ?
~ Lu
-
WILLIAM MASON, Blacksmith of Wellington - d. 1866 :
Just adding at this point some further info for William MASON from various sources, as it is now known that both he and his son, W.F. MASON, sponsored other immigrants to Wellington (and these persons also have a MASON connection). ;)
I am very interested in the comment that William funded other Mason familiies to come to NZ.
Hi again
Was the above ^ < Post # 80 -- page 9 of this thread > the one you were referring to ?
If so, then can tell you that this William MASON and son W.F. MASON (William Frederick), were the husband and son of Lucy Ann MASON. The family arrived in Wellington per the ship "London" (1840 ?). William MASON and W.F. MASON later acted as "sponsors" for John MASON (the subject of this thread) and his wife Mary Ann, who arrived on the "Kinnaird" (1857?) - as well as for a family named LEIGHTON (who also had a MASON family connection).
~ Lu
-
If so, then can tell you that this William MASON and son W.F. MASON (William Frederick), were the husband and son of Lucy Ann MASON. The family arrived in Wellington per the ship "London" (1840? 1842). William MASON and W.F. MASON later acted as "sponsors" for John MASON (the subject of this thread) and his wife Mary Ann, who arrived on the "Kinnaird" (1857? 1859 ) - as well as for a family named LEIGHTON (who also had a MASON family connection).
~ Lu
*** CORRECTIONS to dates *** (see above)
"LONDON" arrived Wellington 1842 -- "KINNAIRD" arrived Wellington 1859
-
I am very interested in the comment that William funded other Mason familiies to come to NZ. In particular, is there a relationship with Thomas "Quaker" Mason? People keep mixing up Thomas's son Samuel Smart Mason (born 1854) with Williams son Samuel Mason (born 1855). Were they related?
Hi
There is much written about Thomas "Quaker" MASON. I (personally) can't see a connection to any of the aforementioned MASON families. ;)
See this link for further info. on Thomas MASON >>
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/2m38/mason-thomas
~ Lu
-
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Evening Post" (Wellington) - 11 June 1903 - Death of Mr Thos. MASON
^ Obituary of Thomas MASON
-
Hello again residntAngel
... am I correct in thinking that your William and Elizabeth MASON were originally from Ireland ?
The Petone Settlers Museum Database, at following link, has this entry>
http://www.huttcity.govt.nz/
(Abbreviated version) ...
Per "Martha Ridgway" - arrived Wellington NZ, 14 November 1840
MASON - Wm. - (40) - occupation: Farmer
MASON - Elizabeth - (38) - wife
MASON - (children) 2 Boys aged 14 and 10 yrs -- 2 girls aged 12 and 7 yrs
By whom recommended: Mr ESPIE
Residence prior to emigration: Castledawson, Derry
-
Hi Lucy.
I didn't know they were from Ireland!! And there are two older sons and a daughter in that list as well .
Mary Jane 21 Sempstress
Samuel 18 Labourer
William Jnr 16 Labourer
William Junior married Jane Spicer, and had quite a few children before he died in 1857 - one in the same years as his death. Jane then married Ben Houdley in 1858.
Samuel, my great great grandfather, was born in 1855.
-
For details about the family of Elizabeth Espy b. 1794 and William Mason
b. 1783 and their seven children, please see "The House of Espie in Australia
and New Zealand" by Mary (Espie) Smith, first edition 1993, page 261, ISBN
0 646 16595, Harrison Printing Co. Pty. Ltd., Toowoomba, Qld. Chapter 29 was
contributed by my, uncle. In Old French espie means sword.
My line: Esby > Espie (Scotland > Londonderry 1610) > Espey, Espy
(Cookstown and Dungannon). Dr. Robert Espie, Ship Surgeon, was related
according to my family records and independent research. I have been in
contact with one researcher, believed to be related, with postings in
Rootsweb for Espie + Savage as related to Elizabeth Espy b. 1794.
Cheers, sword
-
WOW !! Am asking library to see if I can get a copy to read.
-
Got book, have read relevant chapter, and yes, it is the correct Elizabeth Esby ...
THANK YOU LUCY AND STORM.
-
Hello Patsy,
My G G Grandparents were John Augustus MASON and Jane CHAMBERS. They arrived on the Indian Queen in 1857. With 2-3 children including my G G Grandmother Eliza Jane MASON.
I haven't come across a Helen Augusta MASON in my lot.
I found John Augustus obituary in the Evening Post 8 June 1815 which said he arrived on the Indian Queen in the "50's".
I have been unable to find his birth in Romford or Stepney, Middlesex, London c 1842 but I have Jane CHAMBERS Parish Records, and all her family on Family Search IGI. Father Mathias/Matthew, Mother Frances/Fanny. Also Eliza Janes' Birth Entry.
All the best
Diane
-
Looking for a passenger list for the Indian Queen left Liverpool Dec 1856 arrived Wellington 1857. Have seen the semi list that was posted but I want to see WHERE my man came from and if his wife was with him on board or did she arrive as a single woman and themarriage not noted here. Does anyone know if the original list has been found at all?? thanks
My Great grand father came out on the Indian Queen according to family information His name was George Bates Haigh. Has anyone found passenger list of the people that boarded the boat at Liverpool on the 1st of Feb 1856. His trip was paid for be the lord whose daughter he had impregnated the conditions were he was to stay in NZ and paid for an unknown time to stay.
WE need help to find the English side, the lord, who he was, anything will help Cheers Ross Davis (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hello Ross,
The passenger list I have attached does not have Haigh on it.
I have found these two sites, but there are others and it appears that it called into Australia before coming on to Wellington, New Zealand.
http://www.familytreecircles.com/indian-queen-28081.html (attached)
http://www.ourfamilystories.gen.nz/HTML_files/Biographies/WilliamCharlesHercock.html
Good luck with your search.
Diane