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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: suevize on Saturday 20 October 12 09:10 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with suggestions to find this elusive death?
James C Kilpatrick came to Australia in 1851 with his wife Mary and 4 young children. He was born in 1820 in Inveresk, Scotland, married Mary O'Connor (originally from Limerick) in Chorlton, Lancs in 1844.
In Australia the family's arrival is noted in the Adelaide newspapers (as Kirkpatrick but confirmed to be the Kilpatrick family) in 1851. He registered the birth of a daughter in Adelaide in 1852 and another in Sandridge (Melbourne) in 1855. This is the last I can find of him.
I have searched death records in all Australian states (so far as they are available on the Internet) as well as deaths at sea in case he was in the merchant navy. Also searched death notices and news items in trove.
In 1865 his daughter married with a letter of permission from her mother (no mention of her father). In 1892 his widow Mary died. I therefore assume he died before 1892 and probably before 1865.
At his birth he was named as James Kilpatrick and may have assumed the additional name Crombie as his mother died when he was an infant and he seems to have been raised by her sister married name Crombie. He has used the name James Crombie Kilpatrick consistently in all the records I have found.
Any ideas on how to find his death? Greatly appreciate any suggestions. Sue
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Hi
May help the researchers
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=vize-gippsland&id=I19
Muss
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In 1865 his daughter married with a letter of permission from her mother (no mention of her father). In 1892 his widow Mary died. I therefore assume he died before 1892 and probably before 1865.
Hi there,
For mum to give permission in lieu of dad, it at least indicates that dad was not there to give permission. Where did the 1865 marriage take place? Do you have that mc?
Cheers, JM
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I am looking at an online index for births
I think it is showing the following:
M?? Kilpatrick, at Sandridge Victoria in 1855 with father as James Cromble Kilpatrick and Mary Oconnor. Ref # 7034.
May I please ask
Does the actual bc show that this birth was registered by the father of the baby?
Did he sign his name?
What was his full address and his occupation as given on that bc please?
On the bc, what details did he provide for the older siblings for that child?
Cheers, JM
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Have you considered the death of 19 May 1894 at Mile End, SA for a James Kilpatrick aged 73 years. ? The online index I am looking at has the death as registered at Hindmarsh, Vol 219 Page 68. I am not sure if that would be the full reference no. details.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/53702436 SA Register 22 May 1894,… no mention of family in that cutting, perhaps the person letting the newspaper know had simply presumed he was from Ireland by his accent http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/53687621 SA Register 29 May 1894
Same online source, there’s a Cemetery Index for Avoca, Vic for a James Kilpatrick, aged 73, death 18 May 1894. Perhaps its for the same chap, and his name is memoralised on a headstone at Avoca?
I am not familiar with Vic or SA records, sorry, I hope I am not taking you too far off track…
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM for all the leads.
Yes I have the 1865 marriage certificate - Christian Kilpatrick married George Norman in Sandridge (now Port Melbourne), father named as James Crombie Kilptarick, mother Mary O'Connor.
Yes also have the birth certificate and James did register the birth in 1855 in Sandridge.
So my best guess of his movements is 1850 left Manchester, arrived Port Adelaide Jan 1851. Stayed in Adelaide until 1853-54 then moved to Sandridge, Victoria before 1855.
The family seems to have stayed in Sandridge until Mary's death in 1892. She is named as relict of James Crombie Kilpatrick in the death announcements in the paper and her death certificate also says widow. I have therefore been focusing on pre 1892, but always possible the family gave this info if Mary was abandoned. I'll have to check the Avoca one again. I did download all the Vic ones that looked vaguely close and all had major differences to my info. Had not seen the SA one.
Thanks
Sue
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Hi
This may be may or may not help
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/84401453?searchTerm=james crombie&searchLimits=
I have not found the death on QLD BDMs
May not be the correct James
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3679092?searchTerm=james crombie&searchLimits
Muss
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The death on Qld BDM
Crombie James 1898/C3758
Father David Crombie
Mother Jessie Webster
Cheers Sue
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Hi there,
Re the 1855 bc and the 1865 mc, both for Victoria BDMs ....
What occupation for James on each one, and the addresses please for a) the place of birth in 1855 and b) the bride's usual address in 1865.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks Muss and JM
have looked at all these leads and they are not correct.
Name is consistently recorded as James Crombie Kilpatrick, occupation consistently recorded as engineer (on all the certificates and newspaper articles I have found). Parents were James Kilpatrick and Mary Petrie; baptised 1820 in Inveresk, Midlothian Scotland. Mary died in in1822 at the home of John Crombie (her brother in law) in Edinburgh after a long illness.
Known addresses:
1820 Inveresk with Musselburgh, Midlothan
1822 House of John Crombie Canongate Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
1841 not located in England or Scotland census
1844 29 Chester Street, Heston(?) Manchester, Lancs
1846 Chorlton, Lancs
1847 Back Gray Street, Manchester, Lancs
1850 Cholton, Lancs
1853 Adelaide (don't have this original certificate this quoted from a SAGHS index)
1855 Sandridge (address not specified)
1865 Sandridge (residential addresses of parties not provided)
1892 Erane? Street Port Melbourne
This one is a real mystery to me. Everything points to James dying between 1855-1865 in Sandridge but I cannot find anything. I am not sure of his employment, apart from the consistent recording of engineer as his occupation. So maybe he travelled?
Sue
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Hi there,
It is entirely possible that the registration of his death failed to reach the BDM authorities, particularly if it occurred during the Gold Rushes of the 1860s. I know that at least in NSW, the deputy registrars were meant to send quarterly summaries to the Sydney HO, and that these were usually despatched by Royal Mail. And the Royal Mail went by Coach along with the Gold ! and errr..... not all the coaches managed to get to their destinations without being 'bailed up'. Sometimes even the Royal Mail was removed by the bushrangers !
Alternatively, there are numbers of death registrations where the surname was not known to the informant (usually a police officer or a hospital attendant), usually as a result of a sudden unexplained death.
I am not sure about Victoria, but I do know that in NSW, up until WWI, it was entirely possible for a Police Magistrate, or a Coroner to issue an order for a burial, often before any inquest was held. Then they simply overlooked registering the death, (the regulations did not specifically direct either to register the death) or request the funeral director to register it.
Cheers, JM