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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Jojopaz on Thursday 18 October 12 21:28 BST (UK)

Title: Agnes Herbert
Post by: Jojopaz on Thursday 18 October 12 21:28 BST (UK)
Hi.
Was wondering if anyone could help me find anything about Agnes Herbert - can't seem to find her anywhere.  I only have the following information:

Spouse:    

William Pomfret Stileman
    Birth Sep 1857 in Bayswater, Middlesex, England
    Death 12 Apr 1910 in Eastbourne

Their children:

Frances Hilda Stileman
    Birth 1880 in Cape Town, South Africa
    Death 1963
    

Lilian May Warden Stileman
    Birth 1893 in St Heliers, Jersey
    Death 1964 in Ashford, Kent

I would be so grateful for any information, Thanks,
Jo
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 21:48 BST (UK)
Have you considered this Agnes Herbert given as born in Ealing in c 1860 in the 1861 Census-RG09/778/45/49.

If you have access to the 1911 Census you will see an Agnes Stileman given as born in Ealing in c 1860.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: Jojopaz on Thursday 18 October 12 22:17 BST (UK)
Thank you so much.  The one in the 1861 census could well be her but the 1911 one is not as she is living with a brother of a different name. 

The other confusing thing is that William Stileman had a sister, also called agnes who I know he lived with (along with his parents and other family members) with his daughter Frances (aged7... so would actually make her birth date 1884, different to the one I have)  in 1891.  Don't know where Agnes  is but she goes on to have their second daughter two years later in Jersey.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: karenlee on Thursday 18 October 12 22:24 BST (UK)

Good Morning

You have shown the first child of this couple to have been born in South Africa.  Could Agnes be a native of that country and not of the UK??

Where were William and Agnes married do you know?  The marriage certificate could well give some useful clues.

Cheers
Karenlee
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: crisane on Thursday 18 October 12 22:24 BST (UK)
Do you have a marriage record for William Stileman and Agnes Herbert?
The two girls are not with either parent in 1901 and there is a very large age gap between the two.
RG13/960/31/4
Salisbury Lodge Worthing Sussex
Amelia Juliet Lidletter 50 living on own means Brighton
Maud Isabel Lidletter dau 29 London
Amelia Juliet Lidletter dau 25 London
Frances Hilda Stileman    boarder 19 Capetown
Lilian May Stileman boarder 8 Jersey
Lily Jones 21 servant Oxfordshire
   
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 22:25 BST (UK)
As I can't talk directly about the 1911 Census I'll send you a PM.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 October 12 22:30 BST (UK)
Lilian May's baptism details are here (http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/St_Helier_baptisms_1842-1909_Stephen_to_Szultz)

Parents are William Pomfret and Agnes Marion.

There is a birth for Agnes Marien Herbert registered in Brentford in 1859.

Do you know for sure that Frances' mother is Agnes?
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: Jojopaz on Thursday 18 October 12 22:33 BST (UK)
BINGO!!!  Thank you so much... don't know how I missed this... makes so much sense as the name Marion crops up so much in our family ;D THANK YOU!!

I don't know that for sure I'm afraid, but we have always believed it so, have never heard any different.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 22:36 BST (UK)
Yes heywood I've sent the details by PM!

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 October 12 22:38 BST (UK)
Yes heywood I've sent the details by PM!

Regards
William Russell Jones.

 ??? but then we would have all missed them. It's good to share. :)
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 22:42 BST (UK)
Yes,I couldn't talk though about the 1911 Census which is where i spotted Agnes M first.The 1861 Census entry is of her that I gave.

Regards

William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 October 12 22:48 BST (UK)
I'm not sure what you mean.
 
The information I posted was about Lilian May's baptism which gave the mother's full name, Agnes Marion.
This then lead to the birth registration of Agnes Marien Herbert.

None of this was in your post (and presumably not in your personal message either) which you say refers to 1911 and 1861 census records.

Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 22:54 BST (UK)
I didn't give the birth details but gave Agnes M Herbert in 1861 in an earlier post on here also pointing out the 1911 Census.I sent a PM to explain whose sister or rather step-sister she was in 1911!

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 22:57 BST (UK)
The 1871 Census should explain the step sister reference I made-RG10/1318/93/39.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: wrjones on Thursday 18 October 12 23:01 BST (UK)
We're having to talk seemingly in riddles as we can't talk directly about the 1911 census.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 October 12 23:08 BST (UK)
We're having to talk seemingly in riddles as we can't talk directly about the 1911 census.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

You may be talking about 1911 but I am not.
I posted and gave a link to a baptism and as a result of that was able to direct to a birth registration for Agnes Marien Herbert.
To that point, the second name had not been referred to.

Therefore, as I said, I don't understand your message which seems to imply that I am repeating information already posted by you. Apologies if I am missing something.

There was no need for me to send information by pm as you did.
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: Jojopaz on Thursday 18 October 12 23:11 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone... this is definitely Agnes! - so pleased to have found her.  Her father was called Francis so I expect my G Grandmother, Frances Hilda was her daughter and was named after her late father.  :)
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 October 12 23:13 BST (UK)
That's great news and I am glad that we all helped unravel the mystery.

Good luck with your future research

heywood  :)
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: Jojopaz on Thursday 18 October 12 23:16 BST (UK)
... you both gave me different information which all came together to lead to the person I'm looking for.   :)
Title: Re: Agnes Herbert
Post by: Finian on Wednesday 17 July 24 16:49 BST (UK)
It seems to be that Agnes used Marion and Maude interchangeably as her middle name.
At the baptism of their daughter Francis Hilda she used Maude, see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:685P-KPCP
At their marriage in 1885 in New York City (more than two years after the birth of Frances) she used Maude, see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2CJ-XKM6
At the baptism of their 2nd daughter Lilian May Warden Stileman in Jersey she used Marion, as has been posted already.
I believe the 1911 census entry for an Agnes Marion Stileman, already referred to in a post, is her. Although she is listed as sister of the head of household Charles Rushton 57, she is in fact half-sister of his wife Emily Edith (nee Smith), age 41, b. Ealing, see https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8R-XQS.
Charles Rushton married Emily Edith Smith Q2 1889 in Camberwell, FreeBMD births, Q2 1889, vol 1d, p 1150
In the 1871 census Agnes M Herbert age 11 is listed as daughter of the head of household Edward Smith (and his wife Matilda Smith) but two of her brothers (Francis J Herbert 16 and Edward Herbert 9) are listed as step-sons and she must have been a step-daughter, see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXS-3PY There is a younger daughter Emily E Smith age 1, b. Ealing and this is the half-sister she is visiting in 1911.
A Matilda Herbert married Edward Garland Smith in St. Geo. H. Sq. district, FreeBMD marriages, Q4 1867, vol 1a, p 485.
Agnes's parents were Francis Herbert who married Matilda Dixon in Q1 1854 in Kensington, vol 1a, p 44. Dixon may be a misspelling of Dickson as https://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-840926321/davies?familyTreeID=1&rootIndividualID=1500077 gives her mother's maiden name as Dickson.
I believe Agnes died in Croydon Q1 1934, age 75, vol 2a, p 679 but I can't find confirmation that this is her.