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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: scarbro on Sunday 29 May 05 09:48 BST (UK)
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I am searching the family of William Crawford and Rachael Lindsay who married c1880 in County Derry. They had a daughter Margaret Lindsay Crawford born 1886 and birth registered at Bellerena, Limavady. William was a farmer and his address was Lisnagrib, Aghanloo. I do not know anything else about William and Rachael, but they were possibly/probably Presbyterian as Margaret married Abraham Wharton in a Presbyterian Church in Coleraine in 1916.
I would be grateful if anyone can throw any light on the Crawford/Lindsay families. I realise that they are very popular names but I live in hope!
Best wishes to all you family researchers
Sandra
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I was searching for Lisnagrib the place where I used to spend my summer holidays in the 1950's.
There was avery old lady who lived there and her house is still occupied by an aunt of mine.
Her name was Marha Crawford but she had never been married. She was in her 80's or 90's in the 1950's so would have been born in about 1860 -1870.
Her house can be found on the B201 out of Limavady on the way to Coleraine wher the "Bishops Road" from Downhill meets what is now known as "Windyhill Road". check it on Multimap.com at 1:50000 scale.
Some people in the area will still remember her, when she died (about 1959) and where she is buried.
I hope this is of interest
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Dear RPS
Thank you so much for taking the time to tell me about Martha. I will do some searches and try and find something out about her. To tell you the truth I have not got very far with my searches on the Crawfords. My mother--in-law's grandfather was William Crawford born somewhere in County Derry around 1840. There were a lot of William Crawfords and I just cannot find his birth.I was convinced that he was born in the Drumachose parish as he farmed in Lisnagrib. This comes under the parish of Aghanloo but there was no Presbyterian church there. I got the Derry family history to search for me and they did an excellent job but came up with nothing conclusive. I have asked 2 organisations to see if there were any other children of William who married Rachel Lindsay in 1883 but none can be found, apart from Margaret born 1886 who was my mother-in-laws mother. If you have any suggestions I would be very grateful
All the best
Many thanks again
Scarbro
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I feel you may have been looking in the wrong church records.
I wonder if the deeds of the present farms would show previous owners?
Martha Crawford, although she was generally housebound in the fifties ,would have "gan to meetin" as I remember her say of one of her neighbours. Translated that meant she would have gone to Derrymore Presbyterian Church and had little or nothing to do with Drumachose or Aghanloo which if I remember right were Church of Ireland (Anglican) and 'not properly reformed'.
Lisnagrib would have consisted of four only farms and Crawfords would have been the smallest at only 6-8 acres - its a small world in Lisnagrib - and the current older generation who farm there would probably know who farmed each property in 1900 and maybe even before that.
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Derrymore could be a pot of gold for you. Lindsays emigrated from there to Philadelphia in 1834
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Dear RPS
Reading this at 6am before I go to work so just to say thank you so much for your brilliant suggestions. No doubt will be in touch later with a lot of questions- that is if you don't mind
Yours in appreciation
Scarbro
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Dear RPS
Have written to several people following your suggestions including the minister who has the Derramore records in his presbytery. All I can do is hope!
I looked back through the search that the County Derry Genealogy Centre did for me and nothing came up at Derramore for William Crawford but I had not requested a search for the Lindsays. So that is another avenue I could follow. I see what you mean about the Lindsays leaving for Philadelphia in the 1830s. That will be worth pursuing.
Just to let you know I have appreciated what you told me and I haven't been idle!!!!!!
All the best
Sandra
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Dear RPS,
I have just come across your post of December 05 regarding Lisnagrib and Martha Crawford. We may have played together. I was born just down below Martha's - at the Douglases. My relatives also lived up the Bishop's Road at Lisnagrib and at Drumalief - all Douglases.
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I am Husulo,a resident of Southern California
My Grandmother Sarah Crawford was a sister of Martha Crawford who was deceased in June of 1957.Martha and Sarah were daughters of Catherine Crawford who was deceased on 29th December 1918.
When Martha died,the only listed relatives of hers were,my Mother Mae Estep,sister Catherine Baum,brothers Thomas and William McDowell.
During WW II my Mother Mae Estep had supported her Aunt Martha.
I have been to Northern Ireland twice in the last five years,and could retrieve very little information,except from an elderly gentleman,who was a neighbor.
Milt
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Scarbro,
I have just come across your posting but I can say that William Crawford married Rachel (sic) Lindsay in Limavady First Presbyterian Church on 17 Oct 1883.
Regards
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Husulo,
Welcome to Rootschat. If you can supply some more information about Sarah Crawford, such as parents, there are quite a few of us who will do our best to supply you with some information.
Regards
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My Grandmother (Sarah J Crawford) was born in the year 1876 at Newton Limavady,Ireland and died at the age of 32 February 17,1908 at
The Butler County General Hospital- Butler,Pennsylvania.Sarah was married to Alexander R.McDowell.
The person or persons handling The Catherine Crawford Estate were R.G.Connell & Son,Limavady,They have never responded to my mail or E-Mails.
My mothers last letter from R.G. Connell & Son was dated 22nd August,1958.The executor of Martha Crawford Estate was a John W McCloy
Milt
In the picture Sarah J Crawford, husband Alexander R. McDowell and son Andrew
Note I believe when Martha Crawford died,her house and property was still listed as The Catherine Crawford Estate
Husulo
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Looks like an earlier William Crawford in Lisnagrib townland- "The Will of William Crawford late of Lisnagrib County Londonderry Farmer who died 22 December 1882 at same place was proved at Londonderry by David Hopkins of Bolea in said County Farmer one of the Executors." see www.proni.gov.uk
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Hi,
The Record Search section of www.familysearch.org shows only two births of Sarah J. (Jane) Crawford, one in 1871 and the other in 1874.
They are Sarah Jane Crawford born 21 Apr 1871 to Thomas Crawford and Catherine Henry who married in Drumachose Presbyterian Church, Limavady on 21 Apr1869. Her siblings were Hugh b 1873 and Martha Ann b1875. Children's births were recorded in Bellarena sub district which is convenient for Lisnagrib.
The other was Sarah Jane Crawford born 1 Jun 1874 to Allisan Crawford and Rebecca Carrick who were married in Ballykelly Church of Ireland on 25 May 1871. Her siblings wereMary b1877 and Margaret Ann b 1879. Children's births were recorded in Ballykelly sub district.
Regards
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Those are the 2 Sarah Jane Crawfords I also found. Perhaps her birth was registered just as 'Sarah' or 'female.'
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Tried SARAH and FEMALE and still only found the two registered in Limavady district which I mentioned above.
Regards
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Scarbro,
Can't help you directly with the family but perhaps a suggestion.
Firstly are yours dates of birth right for Margaret. Reason i ask is there is a Rachel [64] and Margaret [21] Crawford living in Margarreta Street Coleraine in the 1911 census. No other Crawfords there and Rachel is listed as widow.
However the Margaret is listed as what looks like Margaret 'G' not 'L'.
Both Presbyterians
No other Rachel/Margaret's anywhere.
There are three possible Rachel Crawford's signed the Ulster Covenant in Limavady in 1912.
The other suggestion i would make is to look for Margaret and Abraham.
There are Wharton's in Northern Ireland mostly in Co Down, but no Abraham.
I was thinking as they were married in 1916, during the 1st war is there a possibility he was a soldier, maybe English. There are quite a few Abraham Wharton's coming up in English records.
Rob
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Firstly, thank you to everyone who has posted about the Crawford families of Lisnagrib. I still need to go through all my paperwork to double -check but am very interested in the possible link between the William Crawford I have on our tree and the family of Thomas Crawford and Catherine Henry. My mother-in-law has always said that there were some cousins in the US or Canada so maybe Sarah Jane is the link? Who knows?
Then onto your post, Rob: thank you for your comments. This is what I know: I have a copy of the original 1911 transcript and the age of Margaret is definitely 24. She was born 08/06/1886 and I have a copy of her birth certificate. I agree the L could be a G but I ignored that as I have seen their details and signatures for the Ulster Covenant which they signed in Coleraine giving 6 Margeretta Terrace as their address. The only problem is that I have never been able to find when William Crawford the husband of Rachel died. He was alive and living in Lisnagrib in 1901 but by 1911 Rachel is a widow.
Abraham Thomas Wharton was born in Cluincarrig Killorglin Kerry. He married Margaret Lindsay Crawford 05/07/1916 Ballywatt Ballyrashane Co Antrim. They lived in Donegal where they had 3 children. Margaret died in 1926.
I need to find out who else was living at Lisnagrib in the 1901 census. I know that Catherine and Martha Crawford were living at no 1 in 1911 but have misplaced my 1901 info.
Best wishes to all
Scarbro
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I found this death announcement for Sarah J. (Crawford) McDowell in old papers
Sincerely Husulo
Some words are misspelled
As I read Kingskerwell entry he shows Sarah Jane Crawford being born April 21 1871,this very well could be,I am sure this entry was my Grandmother.
The article which I posted claiming birth from a later date was derived from a paper found in mothers papers.
Thank you Kingskerwell.
Milton W Irwin aka Husulo
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The letter from R.G. Connell & Son (solicitors) to my Mother Mae A Estep concerning estate of Martha A Crawford.decd.
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New information My great Grandmother and Great Grandfather Thomas Crawford and Catherine Henry were married in Drumachose Presbyterian Church,Limavady 21st April 1869 My grandmother Sarah J Crawford (McDowell) was born 1871
she had a brother Hugh born 1873 and great Aunt Martha Ann Crawford was born 1875,I had previously provided death notices for Catherine Crawford and Sarah Jane Crawford (McDowell) I do have The Last Will and testament for Martha Ann Crawford.
Milt Irwin (Husulo)
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My ancestor: THOMAS CRAWFORD. b. 1809 was from Limavady: he said he was a METHODIST farmer.......married to Mary Martin.......migrated to Canada in 1840
Now in 1831 we find a THOMAS Crawford as head of household: living in Aghanloo on the Drumaderry homestead/townland........my fellow would be age 22 by then: so this could be him........
Certainly by 1853: there is no longer a Thomas Crawford as a head of household in the region.
What we do have by then is:
ROBERT: living exactly on the DRUMADERRY homestad
and
WILLIAM: living nearby on the BALLYHANNA homestead
This William had a son William b. 1846 who married Rachel LIndsey (say?)
So we would have to assume this WILLIAM SENIOR was born no sooner than 1825.......
and
as this Robert is not listed as head of household in 1831: he must have been too young.......
and by 1853: either the earlier Thomas was my guy: or if not and this Thomas was an elder: he wasnt alive or still there any longer.....
So from this we can also assume Robert was born also in the region of 1820-5
Could all three: my THOMAS, ROBERT AND WILLIAM be brothers?
and of course we add in a Thomas b. 1840s.......after my guy was already gone.......
he must be the son of one of these two left: Robert or William
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The only other hint we have is the 1740 in Limavady is listed only a Mrs Crawford........widow?
We are missing the men born 1780-1790 who could be the fathers of these men.
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My ancestor: THOMAS CRAWFORD. b. 1809 was from Limavady: he said he was a METHODIST farmer.......married to Mary Martin.......migrated to Canada in 1840
Was it in Canada he said he was Methodist? some but not many Methodists in Limavady area- perhaps became one after arrival in Canada.
ROBERT: living exactly on the DRUMADERRY homestad and WILLIAM: living nearby on the BALLYHANNA homestead
These are the name of the townland not their particular property.
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No when he boarded the ship he registered himself as a METHODIST...there is a fairly long history of Crawford Methodists.......it was pretty radical at the time ........
I was reading a complete history of Keenaught Barony and the various Parishes.......followed by the Townlands..........it said that a Townland was not a "town" at all........but basically a small plot of land with usually just one house on it: enough to sustain one family ..each had a unique name...Over time they were subdivided into smaller and smaller sections for various sons.......finally becoming too small to sustain a family at all.
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I was reading a complete history of Keenaught Barony and the various Parishes.......followed by the Townlands..........it said that a Townland was not a "town" at all........but basically a small plot of land with usually just one house on it: enough to sustain one family ..each had a unique name...Over time they were subdivided into smaller and smaller sections for various sons.......finally becoming too small to sustain a family at all.
No, a townland is a groups of farms and houses. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townland
http://www.ancestryireland.com/database.php?filename=townlands
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Well fair enough: suffice it to say: its one very small aggregate......either one family or a few
I don't think any of these Crawfords owned any of these but were Cottiers/Cotters: just living/working on the properties.
Would that seem reasonable?
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Very few landowners in Ireland at that period. In fact, it was only late 1800s that tenants started being given option to buy their farms.
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Correction:
Thomas and MARGARET Martin migrated to St. John New Brunswick Canada in 1850 not 1840
We have in the 1853 Griffiths report:
William living at Ballycrum (where we find in 1766 a Thomas living)
Robert living at Drumaderry
We know Thomas was born 1809: and is included in the 1831 Census: (if this is not his father)
living in Anghaloo
By
1869: we have a Thomas marrying a Catherine Henry
and
1870: we have William marrying a Susannah Hunter: Unitarians: William is listed as a merchant and his father is listed as Joseph: Gentleman......
We note a Joseph from Limavady migrated to Philadelphia in 1835 I believe........
1740: all we have in Limavady is a Mrs. Crawford: presume she must be a widow
1910: we find Samuel there as a Clerk of the Union
Lots of bits and pieces to try and put together: presumably made harder as the Crawfords of Limavady didnt belong to mainstream Church of Ireland or Presbyterian churches in the early days at least...........sourcing those type of dissenter records should be a challenge.
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Hi,
The Griffiths Valuation for the County of Londonderry was 1858/9.
Regards
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Ok good: even more information to work with.
Do you have more information on the Crawford lineage then?
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PS: Lucky for me: I am communicating with a person who is actually living on the Ballyhanna lands today! He is doing some back searching to see what he can find out about William noted on the Griffiths as living there.
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My Grandmother (Sarah J Crawford) was born in the year 1876 at Newton Limavady,Ireland and died at the age of 32 February 17,1908 at
The Butler County General Hospital- Butler,Pennsylvania.Sarah was married to Alexander R.McDowell.
The person or persons handling The Catherine Crawford Estate were R.G.Connell & Son,Limavady,They have never responded to my mail or E-Mails.
My mothers last letter from R.G. Connell & Son was dated 22nd August,1958.The executor of Martha Crawford Estate was a John W McCloy
Milt
In the picture Sarah J Crawford, husband Alexander R. McDowell and son Andrew
Note I believe when Martha Crawford died,her house and property was still listed as The Catherine Crawford Estate
Husulo
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Hi Getuo99,
Welcome to Rootschat. You have quoted a message from Husulo in 1910. did you mean to add a message to it?
Regards
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Thanks for adding more valuable information on the Crawford's of Limavady...... My original research involved a male and family that came to St. John New Brunswick Canada.....but it is important to have all the threads of various members to paint a full picture of where this long standing clan ended up!!
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Greetings,
This is my first post to rootschat. My father, Andrew McDowell and Husulo's mother, Mae, are first cousins. I found the marriage license application for Alexander McDowell and Sarah J. Crawford in Snowshoe, Centre Co. PA. I thought it might have some info on her parents but at the time of her marriage she was under the guardianship of Alexander's father also named Alexander. My notes say that they were both residents of Snowshoe. They were married by a Methodist minister in Bellefonte. The elder Alexander was born in Co. Down and then moved to Scotland for work first on the construction of the railroad and then later in the coal mines. The younger Alexander was born in Lesmahagow, Lanark, also lived in Carnwath and moved to the US in 1881. I'm not sure where or when Sarah and Alexander met.
I'd like to hear from Husulo.
qetuo99
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To My cousin GETUO99
You have joined a Great Group on RootsChat,you will learn much from them.
I have your GrandParents picture with all the kids,your father and his siblings
I am Milton W. Irwin aka Husulo
look forward to your contact
Milt
Huntington Beach CA
Google me
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Hi husulo. I'm not sure if this will help or not, my Great G grandmother was Jane Crawford daughter of Robert Crawford and Margaret Eaton. their children were Mary, Thomas, Jane, Eliza, and William. Hope its of some value Belfast beau. :)
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Belfast Beau
I thank you for your entry but my Great Grandfather was Thomas Crawford he was married
to Catherine Henry.My Great Grand Grandmother Catherine had three children Sarah Jane my Grandmother,Hugh and Martha Ann.
Husulo
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To My cousin QETUO99
You have joined a Great Group on RootsChat,you will learn much from them.
I have your GrandParents picture with all the kids,your father and his siblings
I am Milton W. Irwin aka Husulo
look forward to your contact
Milt
Huntington Beach CA
Google me
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Hi husulo. It was just that my Crawford connection were from Drumaderry and as you stated before its a small area. sorry I was unable to help. Belfast beau.
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Looking at the Irwin connection to the Shannon,Hopkins family lines -
Matilda Eliza Irwin born circa 1825 and died 1885 who married 23.11.1892 Claudy to David Hopkins born 1825. David died 1900 Bolea.
Cheers
Jack Gee