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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Oxfordshire => England => Oxfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: aimz1462 on Saturday 13 October 12 14:30 BST (UK)
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I have been trying to locate the parents of Charles Holland as i seem to be stuck with this particular ancester. I have the parish record cd which covers st marys, holy trinity, cogges, curbridge, eynsham and hailey. I found his marriage to Elizabeth Brooks in 1819 at st Marys wit. William Brooks and Hannah Haynes and i have the birth records for his children as well as the baptisms all at st marys.
He Must have been born/baptised in another parish, although he lived his married life in the St Marys/Eynsham area, i have his death registered at witney cemetery in 1869 at the age of 73, so i now know that he was born in 1796. Census conflicts made this harder to trace as lots of people know! i also have census records for 51 and 71 cannot find either Charles or his wife in the 61 census and cannot find Charles on the 41 census as i dont know his parents names.
I was wondering if anybody had any of the other cds covering the other parishes of witney that could do a look up for me?
Many thanks
A
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in 1841 census there is a charles holland age 45 living with the following also they are both tailors in the 1841 and 1851 census all that is different is that in the 1841 census they live in rotton row and in 1851 living high street both district are witney
elizabeth holland wife age 41
elziabeth holland dau age 15
charles holland son age 16
samuel holland son age 14
mary holland dau age 10
thomas halland son age 7
william hollandson age 4
susana holland dau age 2
1841 census HO107/872/31
1851 census HO107/173
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Hi Aimz welcome to Rootschat :)
I see in the 1851 census he gives his birthplace as Oxford Oxfordshire, this usually means the city of Oxford itself, so this might me a good place to start - also he was a tailor which usually means an apprenticeship so there might be a clue there.
:)
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Thanks for the welcome!
I now have the 41 census record, so thank you chipking! the children all match what i already have in my tree. Rotton Row? sounds appealing.....
No luck with 61 though, maybe pages are missing or maybe they were not in the same area?
DebbieG how would i start to trace him through an apprenticeship? This is a new one to me, I am fairly new to this family history research but finding it so very addictive!
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Hmm apprenticeship records can be a bit hit and miss, he may have been trained informally by a family member, I have just checked the two obvious sources I know for Oxfordshire which are the records of duty paid on apprenticeships 1710-1811 on Anc...try, and the persons index on Oxfordshire Archives Heritage search, unfortunatly I didn't come up with anything this time - they can be very useful because usually the fathers name and profession is given.
but .... :)
I have been going through the various Oxford parishes baptisms - fortunately Holland is not a particularly common name, I have found a baptism st St Peter Bailey church, Oxford 1794 Aug 13th Charles son of Samuel & Elizabeth Holland, I notice he had a son called Samuel, I will see what else I can find on this family.
:)
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I myself has a quick look on ances but the records only go up to 1811 and i think he may have been a little young.
The bapt. you found MAY be him as you said he did have a son called samuel, also after looking at the census records the DOB given is different 41 says 1796 51 census says 1797 and his death says 1793 but looking at the parish record for his death age is 73 which would mark 1796 as correct, unless Charles himself really didnt know how old he was or what year he was born he just guessed! so looking at all the DOB's given a 1794 bapt. isnt far-fetched......
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- The 1841 census ages for adults were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 year mark (they weren't always but they were supposed to) so you need to bear this in mind when looking at that census.
Apprenticeships often started age 14 so he might have just sqeezed in - but as you say I can't see anything either.
More on the Oxford family
Samuel Holland of St Peter Bailey, Oxford married Elizabeth Timms (a widow) at Ascott under Wychwood 23rd May 1775 (from OFHS marriage index)
the first baptism I can see for Holland at St Peter Bailey is for George s/o Samuel & Elizabeth in 1785 (he was buried 1786)
then Elizabeth d/o Samuel & Elizabeth 1788 (buried 1790), then the Charles one I gave before then another Elizabeth in 1798
There are burials 1812 Aug 23 Samuel Holland aged 75
1830 Dec 15th Elizabeth Holland aged 83
There is no occupation for Samuel given on any of these records.
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so this family it would seem are the same as im trying to trace. thank you for all your help :)
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Hi Aimz,
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Just looking at what DebbieG has found and think the St Peter Bailey baptism looks interesting, especially as this Charles also had a brother called Samuel. It was very common to name a child after an uncle, aunt or grandparent. Definitely worth investigating more!
Another avenue, in case you haven't already done so, is to look for a a baptism for Charles as an adult at St Mary's just prior to his marriage.
Jenny ;)
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Did a quick search in 1851 for a Samuel Holland in Oxford, there is one with a birth c1780, birth location Oxford and he was also a TAILOR! He is a widower living on his own in Blackfriars Row, St Ebbe's parish in Oxford.
HO107 piece 128 folio 280 page 20
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Hi Jenny and thanks for welcome :)
That samuel looks interesting but he doesnt match the samuel holland above as that samuel had only 2 surviving children charles himself and a younger sister elizabeth. plus the birth date is out for him. unless he is a sibling of my charles which would mean that the parents given by DebbieG would be for a different family. also the samuel given above died in 1812 so wouldnt exsist on any census and would also explain the witness' at my charles and elizabeth marriage.
The samuel you found could indeed be a sibling (going on birth year/place and occupation) which would mean i would still need to find the parents of charles.
Charles did indeed have a son called samuel and naming after a father seems to be quite consistant throughout my tree.
Think I am still very confused with this one :/
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I was thinking more inline as an older brother to Charles and Elizabeth, there is a huge gap between 1775 and the first baptism found at St Peter Bailey :) You generally look for births about 18mths - 2 years apart. If no children can be found, I would start looking for a death for the first Elizabeth and a remarriage to a second Elizabeth sometime before 1785.
A first born son named Samuel makes alot of sense to me also the fact that Charles was a tailor as was Samuel born 1780. Then of course Charles also names his son Samuel after his father.
Parents Samuel and Elizabeth married in 1775 Ascott under Wychwood
George was bapt 1785 St Peter Bailey Oxford
Elizabeth 1788
Charles 1794
Elizabeth 1798
Now to find out where the parents were between 1775 and 1785, might hold a clue!
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I see where your coming from now! 10 childless years, seems extreme, so looking more closely at elizabeth may be a clue if there is a death date leaving samuel to marry yet another elizabeth then to have children with her. But wouldnt a second marriage show up in the surname search of the parish record? if it exsisted? worth getting the parish record for myself? Cannot see another way of finding out where they were or what they were doing in the 10years in between marriage and the bapt. of George and cover 2 different parishes (chipping Norton and oxford).
Not quite sure how i can progress with this side without the cds or waiting a few more months for the records to come online (which according to oxford record office should be about feb/mar time.) feel completely lost with this side now :(
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Spring next year isn't long to wait, I'm sure you can find a few other bits and pieces to sort out.... I'll send you some certs I have on the Anderson line, that will keep you out of mischief for a while ;D
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hahaha i look forward to that! My brother now wants a full update of everything, so showing him around the tree will take a while! i may look further into the franks line aswell as that so far has me captivated lol
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Hi - me again,
Good point about the time lapse, so I dug a bit more
From St Ebbs, Oxford (OFHS)
baptisms
1778 Dec 23 Samuel s/o Samuel & Elizabeth Holland
1782 Oct 11th Charlotte d/o Samuel & Elizabeth Holland
I could'nt see any Holland burials in this parish but there are two or three marriages which might fit
1801 Samuel Holland to Mary Keen - witnesses Richard & Samuel Holland
1801 Ann Holland to John Wade
1807 Charlotte Holland to James Lines (lodgers)
witness Elizabeth Holloway
:)
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I have stuff on the Franks too ;)
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Oh by the way Aimz - I hate to break the news but Oxford isn't one parish, it's more like 20 seperate ones, which why I didn't see these yesterday - they are on a different disk.
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You're a star Debbie :D
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Hi DebbieG i did know that there were lots of parishes but they are covered by 4 cds but if im looking at 2 different areas im looking at about 8 cds covering about 100 different parishes! lots to trawl through so i think i shall push aside Holland line for now and wait untill they become available online! i have plenty of other avenues to look into to keep me busy until then :)
Jenny - the franks line on my tree is looking rather bare, i have only gone back to 1821 and only direct ancesters so lots to keep me busy, and i shall be double checking my tree with yours to make sure im tracing the right people ;)
Thanks for everybody's help!!! :)