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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bendywendy on Wednesday 10 October 12 14:30 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
Can anyone help to find the registered birth for TOPHAM BECHER DABRIDGECOURT HOUGH c1898 St Pancras as stated on the 1901 cen @ 66 Blenheim Crescent, Kensington and following census @ 65 Tennyson Avenue, Bridlington, E. Yks.
I cannot find anything anywhere near to any of these names ???
His father is TOPHAM HOUGH KIRBY of Scarborough, N. Yks, c1822, and later 1881, changed his name to TOPHAM HOUGH HOUGH, who it turns out is a kinsman of Lord Sherbrooke, how this comes about I have no idea at the present time.
His father was James Kirby a Joiner/Mill Owner at Belle Vue House, Scarborugh and brother to James Barber Kirby, Reverend of several churches south of England and then of St Mary's, Beverley, East Yorkshire where he died 1920.
Both these sons had private education, according to the University info and had a sister Anne Louisa Kirby c1867 Scarborough and never married, she was a nurse but then due to ill health lived off small amount of private means. Both her brothers left substantial amounts upon their deaths, Topham £6, 154.5s.8d and James £7,495.19s.11d
The mother of TBDH is not known, but he must be related to the Becher and Dabridgecourt families, see below for further details of this connection.
His father married as Topham Hough Hough 1905 @ Kensington to a Mary Jane Farmer and on the last census she states "none" for amount of children born.
I can only find this one marriage for his father, unless he married abroad ???
Topham Hough Kirby attended Cambridge University, Cavendish House 1881, he migrated to Conville & Caius House, Oct 1 1881 B.A. in name of T.H. Hough and started practice as Solicitor Nov 1895 and practiced at 13 Clement's Lane, EC. He died Sept 4 1916 at Bridlington, E. Yorks.
TBDH served as a sniper in the East Yorkshire Regiment and died 17 January 1916 in Belgium as result of enemy sniper fire.
There are two books about Lord Sherbrooke:
http://archive.org/stream/lifelettersofrig01martuoft#page/n3/mode/2up
Vol I, on page ix Mr Topham Hough is acknowledged for his help with the Pedigrees in Vol II
Vol I, on page 57 ..Mr. Topham Hough, himself a kinsman of the late Lord Sherbrooke, which goes on about the Becher & Dabridgecourt kin and ancestry of Lord Sherbrooke.
http://archive.org/stream/lifelettersofrig02martuoft#page/n9/mode/2up
Vol II, no mention of Mr Topham Hough in this book, nearest is a Lord Houghton page 355.
Alas, the Pedigrees on pages 603-608 have not been opened and scanned :'(
So, can anyone help me please,
Kind regards, bendywendy
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Topham snr has Mary Jane with him as "wife" in 1901 even though in fact they are not yet married.
The 1911 question is not how many children born to the woman, but how many to the marriage.
What was Mary Jane's situation before her relationship with Topham snr - had she been married before? Have possible births been looked for under Farmer and/or any other previous name of hers?
How is Topham jnr referred to (assuming he is) in Topham snr's will - e.g. "son" "natural son" "adopted son"?
Has Mary Jane's background been investigated for Dabridgecourt & Becher links?
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As a matter of interest
Second Lieutenant TPD Hough,8th Bn,The East Yorkshire Regt,KIA 18 Jan 1916
was killed by a sniper in the trenches near St Eloi while he himself was sniping.
He is buried in Dickebusch New Military Cemetery
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There is an unnamed male Farmer in 1897 Pancras Q2 1B 14. I had a similar problem but took the risk and ordered the certificate, it turned out to be a good call. Might be worth doing the same on this one.
good luck
Hugs
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The announcement of his death in The Times states his age as 18 years and nine months, which would place his birth in about April 1897 ???
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Hi
Many thanks for trying to help and ideas.
Kinsman is only via the male line, so it has to be via Topham Hough Hough, but that dosen't mean the child is not Mary Jane Farmer's.
Bap for her is 22 March 1868 Wootton Rivers, to Stephen & Hannah Farmer.
'71 cen @ Wootton Rivers, father a Groom, Mary Jane is 3 yrs
'81 cen @ Wootton Rivers, father a Groom, Mary Jane is 13 yrs scholar
'91 cen @ Wootton, Rivers, father a groom but Mary Jane not with family, not certain which is her either
'01 cen @ St Pancras, Mary Jane with Topham Hough
I haven't gone any further back on her ancestors at present, but I will do later and see what it brings up.
Will, not got them as yet, info is from the internet what I have.
As for Mary Jane being the mother then why didn't they add Farmer to the list of his names :-\
b.
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Stephen Farmer married Hannah Pearce @ Pewsey, Mar 1859
His parents are John Farmer an Ag Lab & Elizabeth, '51 cen South Savernake, Wilts and '41 cen @ South Savernake with Brimslade & Cadley, father Ag Lab.
b.
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Hi
Would this be Mary J in 91 living with sister Charlotte Roberts & her husband William in Kentish Town, RG12/132/99/15.
Mary J's name is indexed as Panner. :)
Maddie
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As for Mary Jane being the mother then why didn't they add Farmer to the list of his names :-\
There's no particular reason why they should do so.
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A short obituary of TBDH (among others of "Fallen Officers") appeared in The Times, 25 Jan 1916.
His DOB is given as 15 April 1897.
He is described as the only child of Topham Hough Hough and Mary J. Hough.
Education: Colet Court, Bridlington Grammar School.
He wanted to be an architect and was a probationer of the Royal Institute of British Architects, having passed a preliminary examination.
He was said to be a kinsman of Lord Sherbrooke "and also of H. O. D. Becher, the Cameronians, S.R. and Major J.P. Becher, D.S.O., 8th Sherwood Foresters (T.F.), both of whom have lost their lives in this war".
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;D but how are they related to Lord Sherbrooke.... questions and more questions...
I wonder if that school is the school his father and uncle went too, a bit more digging required.
With these other names in his obituary I will do more searching, tea to cook first (in Yorksha evening meal is Teatime)
Thanks to you all, I find this family fascinating, came across them some months back as I have ancestors who are Hough and only yesterday when it was on the local radio that "Lost WW1 letters turn up at a Bridlington School" they were written by TBDH and they were donated to the school a long time ago but had been lost, it made my mind ring..... isn't that the family I was working on some time ago...sure is, but I didn't know about the son then.
b.
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The other named "kinsmen":
www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/58951/BECHER,%20HENRY%20OWEN%20DABRIDGECOURT
www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75739/BECHER,%20JOHN%20PICKARD
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I searched for all Marys born Wootton Rivers in 1891 census
Came up with Mary married to Thomas Smith a police constable.
Checked marriages and there is a Mary Farmer married Thomas Smith in Pewsey in 1887. BUT they are also on the 1901 census
Then a Mary married to Richard Harmour, maiden name Bush married Pewsey 1888
Then a Mary J Goddard born 1870 a servant to Joseph and Eleanor Russell at 16 Lower Belgrave Street, London. She is in the 1881 census also.
Then Mary Brown visitor to 24 Spence Road Islington, who is also on the 1881 census
Then Mary Beckingham in somerst a cook, who is also on the 1881 census
Now cross referncing marriages of Mary Farmer
Phew!
EDIT - Ha mised Maddie's comment about Mary Panner, visitor. She hasn't popped up on my search as she was indexed as born in Australia! I admit the image is not a good one but Australia??? Oh well mystery solved, that's one good thing. So the Farmer birth cert is the stab in the dark.
Am I safe to assume there are no military records available with date of birth etc?
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aye thanks everyone ;D now I must go cook tea
b.
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His father is TOPHAM HOUGH KIRBY of Scarborough, N. Yks, c1822, and later 1881, changed his name to TOPHAM HOUGH HOUGH, who it turns out is a kinsman of Lord Sherbrooke, how this comes about I have no idea at the present time.
His father was James Kirby a Joiner/Mill Owner at Belle Vue House, Scarborugh and brother to James Barber Kirby, Reverend of several churches south of England and then of St Mary's, Beverley, East Yorkshire where he died 1920.
Both these sons had private education, according to the University info and had a sister Anne Louisa Kirby c1867 Scarborough and never married, she was a nurse but then due to ill health lived off small amount of private means. Both her brothers left substantial amounts upon their deaths, Topham £6, 154.5s.8d and James £7,495.19s.11d
It looks from the censuses 1891 onwards (and death reg) as though THH was born abt 1863 rather than 1822.
Edit: His birth is registered as Topham Hough Kirby, Jun qtr 1863 Scarborough.
Has he been found before 1891?
Are these his parents marrying?
Marriage, Sep qtr 1862
James KIRBY
Ann or Annie BARBER
...on the same page, Scarborough 9b 430.
I see that James was a widower in 1861 and again in 1871, by which time he had son James Barber (6) and daughter Anne Louisa (4) with him but no Topham.
His wife "Anne" Kirby may have died aged 37, Dec qtr 1870 Scarborough.
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Am I safe to assume there are no military records available with date of birth etc?
Anna gave the date of birth in reply #9
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Hi avm228
I have no idea why I put 1822... yes it is Topham Hough Kirby Jun 1863 Scarborough and those are his parents.
James Kirby at Nafferton, Yks on 1841 cen as App to a Carpenter, which would fit with his later trade
James Kirby and wife Jan, she had 3 dau's by the surname of Clarkson on 1851 census.
James Kirby and step dau Clarkson and visitors and servants on 1861 census.
James Kirby and son James & Anne on 1871 census.
James Kirby bap Weaverthorpe, 10 Jun 1812 to Benjamin Kirby & Jane.
But where was Topham Hough Kirby ?? even if he was at school, he would be on the census's. He then turns up on 1891 cen with surname Hough.
b.
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He is listed as 18 yrs for death in London Gazette, all the year of births on census' s etc all match up to around 1897/98 ish.
His father was solicitor so anything could be probable as to changing his name etc.. unless he was born
abroad and for some reason give a birth place as St Pancras ???
b.
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Photograph of Major John Pickard Becher
http://www.ournottinghamshire.org.uk/page_id__468_path__0p31p37p.aspx
Southwell and District History Society, state he was a solicitor...
http://www.southwellhistorysociety.co.uk/page18.html
The Peerage
http://www.thepeerage.com/p27182.htm
Find a Grave
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=56467813
War Graves
http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=2769306
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Henry Owen Dabridgecourt Becher
History Links
http://www.historylinks.org.uk/War%20Diary.htm
scroll to date 8th Oct almost the bottom
Photograph of him, almost at the bottom
http://www.sllcmuseumscollections.co.uk/search.do;jsessionid=BDA17C65E6DC74E505C6FA0C7510D5B7?db=object&sort=NAME&bool-3=AND&page=678&field-3=USER_SYM_13&collection=0&view=detail&value-3=Written%2C+Printed+and+Digital+Collections+--+Photography+Non+Place+Specific+--+Military
The Peerage
http://thepeerage.com/p27198.htm
Well I am still no wiser as to how all of these folk fit together :-\
b.
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This shows how Robert Lowe 1st Viscount of Sherbrooke (Lord Sherbrooke) is related back to the Becher family:
http://thepeerage.com/p12556.htm#i125560
click on Pop up Pedigree... it shows his grandparents as Robert Lowe & Ann Becher
now click on Ann Becher's name and then on her Pop up Pedigree, her grandparents are Edward Becher & Bridget Lowe...
this is as far as I have got to joining up any of them, think it is time for bed.
b.
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A short obituary of TBDH (among others of "Fallen Officers") appeared in The Times, 25 Jan 1916.
Education: Colet Court, Bridlington Grammar School.
Fascinating story - I was drawn to reading the thread by this gentleman's unusual name! These two might help:
Colet Court - link to their Archives here http://www.coletcourt.org.uk/contacts
Bridlington School is the successor to Bridlington Grammar School - http://www.bridlingtonschool.co.uk/
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Thanks, will look at Colet Court later.
I don't live far from Bridlington, so know the area very well, I have contacted the school late yesterday.
b.
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I am awaiting for Beverley Grammar School and Colet Court to reply to me.
In the meantime can anyone find an obituary for Rev James Barber Kirby of St Mary's Vicarage, Beverley, East Yorkshire 3 Oct 1920, his wife was Mabel Charnley they married March 1894 @ Reading, Berks.
I am wanting to know if it mentions anything about his family especially his brother Topham H Hough and him having "kinship" to Becher/Dabridgecourt/Lowe etc.
Mabel Charnley was born 1872 Dec, Preston, Lancashire
Children born to Rev JBK & MC are
Dorothy Mary Mabel Kirby reg Jun 1895 Henley said born Caversham, Oxon
Joyce Margaret Kirby reg Sep 1898 Wycomb, Bucks said born Woburn, Buckinghamshire
Patrick Kirby 1900 """ """""
Patrick Becher H Kirby, Dec 1900 Wycombe, Bucks- so this one also carries the Becher name and the H stands for Hugh as on last census @ school at Cothill House, Abingdon.
And he died March 1981 Newton Abbot, Devon, date of birth given 17 Oct 1900 aged 80 yrs.
Cannot find any trace of the dau's after the last census or a marriage for Patrick.
Rev Patrick Becher Hough Kirby M.A. 23 June 1944 Temporary Chaplains Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve - pg 1538
http://archive.org/stream/navylistjun1944v2grea#page/1538/mode/2up/search/patrick+becher+hough+kirby
so H is now Hough or it was wrong on last census as Hugh
The National Archives: Devon Record Office - Church of England, Sidmouth Parish, Devon - Curates Licences 1855A/PI 11
PATRICK BECHER HOUGH KIRBY M.A. 1951
b.
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Hi. My second post, but my first on this topic. I am in the process of compiling a book of the letters from Second Lieutenant Hough. The school gave me permission and I have transcribed all the letters. I have added other material about Hough, too. This site gave me plenty of information about his father. Thanks. Please contact me if anyone is interested.
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Will & Probate for Topham Hough Hough, 65 Tennyson Avenue, Bridlington, died 4 September 1916 Probate York 25 January to the
Reverend James Barber Kirby clerk and Mary Jane Hough widow. Effects £6154 5s 8d.
To obtain a copy of this Will & Probate you need to apply to Leeds Probate Office, http://www.theprobatedepartment.co.uk/find-the-nearest-probate-registry/leeds-district-probate-registry-office/
Print and complete this form and return with PO/Cheque, charges are detailed at lower end of this form ... http://www.theprobatedepartment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/pa1s-eng2.pdf
I cannot find a Will or Probate for Mary Jane Hough, but Leeds Probate will do a search at a small cost.
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Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900 Topham Hough. Kirby (post Hough)
Entered: Easter, 1881 Born: 1863
More Information: Matric. Non-Coll. from CAVENDISH H. Easter, 1881. S. of –, deceased. B. 1863, at Scarborough. Schools, private. Migrated to Caius, Oct. 1, 1881; B.A. 1886, as Hough, T. H. Adm. Solicitor, Nov. 1895. Practised at 13, Clement's Lane, E.C. Died Sept. 4, 1916, at Bridlington, Yorks. Left £1000 for a scholarship at Bridlington school for boys going to Cambridge. (Venn, II. 450, and note; Law Lists; The Times, Sept. 7, 1916.)
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bendywendy
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Hi BendyWendy,
Have read with great interest your posts about TBDH and THH. I recently discovered that my grandmother Kate Smith was the Hough's domestic servant in their home in Bridlington (as per 1911 census). Doesn't help you in your quest for knowledge, but I did want to wish you the best of luck as you try to solve the puzzle about TBDH's birth record...that's a mystery....Cheers.
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I have had a reply from Colet Court, apparently Topham B D Hough:
The first time that I found his name listed was in the Archives Examination books of Summer 1906. It stated there that he was absent from the Examinations that summer. He was then in the Upper Fifth Form.
After this, there is no sign of him in the 1907 nor 1908 books.
I hope this is helpful to you and am sorry there are no other records of him being at the school but at least you can be certain that he attend Colet Court, even for a short period of time.
Also no information either to his date and place of birth or a different name.
bendywendy