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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: M.Ann on Monday 08 October 12 16:03 BST (UK)
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I believe Matilda Thomas (found with her husband Charles Louis Thomas and child Charles Albert Thomas) at 10 Mund Street, West Kensington, Fulham on the 1911 census is the illeg. dau. of my Great Aunt Alma Sands (I find nothing on this woman Alma after this birth - no BMD, dead end). Matilda Thomas ties in with a birth at Heathfield in 1880 as Matilda Sands (mother Alma Sands, father unknown). I've eliminated all the other Matilda Sands on the BMD that I have found! She states on the 1911 census that she was born at Heathfield, Sussex, so I am sure this is my relative.
In 1901 Matilda Sands was in service as a 21yr old housemaid for a Rebecca Read in Tunbridge Wells.
The couple state in 1911 that they have been married 6yrs. They have one son Charles Albert Thomas age 4 yrs born in Fulham, a BMD index for this birth in 1907 exists. No other live births are recorded. None show up after 1911 with maiden name of Sands.
Charles Louis Thomas is given as being an American subject born about 1863 so perhaps Matilda emigrated to the US, married there - returned back to Britain - where their child was born and then left again before war broke out in 1914.
No marriage for the couple exists on the BMD and I cant trace anything else out for the family. My only evidence is the census entry and the birth of their child. Has any kind soul got any access to parish records for the area, directories etc., access to inmigration/outmigration records which would lead me forward through the brick wall!
Always happy to help in return with Welsh look ups and photo repairing. M.Ann
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Charles Louis Thomas is in Heathfield in 1901 married to Katherine
RG13/889 f18 p1
Possible marriage
Marriages Mar 1892
Arnold Catherine Helen
Dwelly Annie Maude
Thomas Charles Louis
Vince James Thomas
Kensington 1a 133
1901 details
Charles Louis Thomas 34 Farm Manager bn Orange, New Jersey, America
Katherine Ellen Thomas 35 bn Norwood, Surrey
Hellene Melline Thomas 7 bn Purame, France
Mabel Louise Thomas 6 bn London
John Brian Arnold Brother in law 29 bn Norwood
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Catherine petitioned for divorce in 1909:
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3088489&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CLOUIS&accessmethod=0
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Looking at the 1911 free index it looks as though Catherine Helen Thomas and her daughters are all in the Brighton area.
Rosie
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This is most interesting.
Got about a bit didnt he!!! :o
Well, the age difference given on the 1911 census between Charles Louis Thomas and Matilda was quite a few years. He is given as 48yrs old and she as 31yrs old. He is a full 17yrs older than her.
He was clearly off waltzing Matilda from Heathfield at least by 1907 the birth of the son - of which there is a BMD record and was stated to be ''married'' for 2 years prior to that - 1905. We could take this with a pinch of salt. In truth he was still married to Katharine. She clearly managed to petition him for his infidelity in 1909! I wonder whether the divorce was allowed. No sign that he ever marries Matilda. The French connection is rather odd too.
I am sure that this girl is Matilda Sands from Heathfield, born illegitimate in 1880 to Alma Sands and raised by my Great Grandparents Julius Caesar and Mary Sands of Heathfield. I have found nothing on Alma but Mary Sands does state in 1911 than one of her 9 children has died. But I have never found a record. History repeated itself.
No wonder they settled in London! What a story!
My Victorian, church going upright Great Grandparents would have been furious and no doubt washed their hands of their grand daughter - whom they carefully called their daughter in 1881 - since they had young teens. themselves.
Well, well, well. What a tale!! Do we know what happened to any of these people?
Thanks both for your help. M.Ann
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His marriage to Catherine was at West Brompton :)
Charles Louis Thomas Bachelor age 25 Merchant -32 Longridge Road father Charles Todd Thomas decd also a Merchant
Catherine Helen Arnold spinster 26 - 31 Bedcliffe Gardens father Benjamin Alfred Arnold decd occ Merchant
wit J Brian Arnold and L Blanche Arnold
The problem with finding Charles after 1911 is that the indexes only have initials for middle names. :(
I suppose you could see if she is named on the sons birth certificate as Sands.
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Yes, getting the sons birth certificate may well prove whether the mother is named as Matilda Sands it does seem very likely. Trouble is it gets so expensive, I try not to do it for the twigs and branches but I might yield to temptation for this one.
Ive just looked at the Brighton entry of Cath. Thomas 1911 census. Marital status looks like 'Terminated' but the writing is poor. She seems to have been living comfortably at a good address in the town - in regency Brighton. Incidently, I grew up there myself!
I agree it might be difficult tracing through, people with the name Thomas without full names. Its possible indeed that Matilda went on to marry someone else - as Charles Louis Thomas was so much older.
Well Matilda Sands does seem to have come out of the woodwork, the cert may prove it - but she may have lied about her name. Clearly peoples lives were just as messy as some peoples are today. But then divorce is much easier nowadays and people dont have to live secret lives Thanks for your help Rosie. Love your Blue Roan Cocker - like my mums! M.Ann
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I know what you mean about buying unnecessary certificates :) I couldn't read the marital status either though terminated is a possibility. (I was born in Brighton. ;D ) I have had a brief look at the probate index for Charles and Matilda but nothing jumps out at me.
I did wonder if this could be Charles junior though I am really clutching at straws.
Charles A Thomas
Dec qtr 1962
Age at Death 54
Registration district Chelsea
Vol 5c Page 341
Rosie
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The Chelsea death could be the son and there was also a possible Fulham marriage that I saw on the BMD for the son as a Charles A Thomas at Fulham.
There are no other births registered after 1912 Thomas, mothers maiden name Sands in Fulham. I havent found a death registered for Matilda Sands/Thomas either that fits.
1911 census Charles Louis Thomas/Matilda Thomas wife (!) is given as 10 Mund Street, Kensington. These were terraced houses in Booths time, desc. purple in his note book/maps - mixed wking. class poor but above the poverty line. Mund Street stands close to Earls Court exhibition centre. It is now the big Gibbs Green local Authority housing estate, Brompton/ Kensington. The streets were all pulled down as slum clearance in the late 1950's.
Katherine Thomas the divorcee and her girls lived in 47 St Georges Road, Kemp Town. In 1911 she was living on her own means and her daughters were not described as working. The house is a smart solid terraced house still occupied in this street of mixed residential and commercial properties.
Her daughters married at Horsham.
I wonder whether rootschatters know that they can look at properties on Google Earth and on Booths property maps of London (not outer boroughs) to discover the social history of our ancestors and the environments they lived in? Friths photo cards - nationwide, also show some streets in the Brighton area - many of which have now gone.
I reckon Matilda may have started as an employee of Mr Thomas when she returned to Heathfield from Tunbridge Wells around 1906 after the demise of her employer Rebecca Read..she started a relationship with him, got pregnant and he then left his wife ::). Since Charles Louis Thomas knew the Brompton/Kensington area (where his wife had come from) that is now Earls Court he took Matilda back to that area - odd that he described himself as a farm manager - not many opportunities for farming around there!(although Earls Court - was Earls Court Farm in the 1850's) Its a fair supposition which further research may back up.
Funnily, I walked from the Brompton Road and down to Earls Court just 2 weeks ago!
Family history is amazing! :) M.Ann
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I've been researching on behalf of a descendant of Charles Louis Thomas and his first 'wife' Catherine Helen nee Arnold. Although there was a petition for divorce I don't think it was ever finalised. When Catherine died in 1940 she was described as 'wife of Charles Louis Thomas'. I have copies of the marriage certificate and the birth of Charles Arnold, his son with Matilda (in fact digital images of much of the divorce petition). Happy to share these. Maybe Catherine and Charles reconciled? Do you know what happened to Matilda and her son?
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Hi Karina, Thanks for your reply. Matilda Sands was the daughter of my great Aunt Alma of whom I know nothing. She disappeared off the records after the birth of her illeg. daughter I have for you Matildas birth cert. (no death index entry found). The dau. Matilda was raised by my great grandmother and then she was sent into service. She is found in Tunbridge Wells in the 1901 census as a housemaid age about 20yrs with a Rebecca Read. Her elderly employer either dies or goes into some form of care. Matilda returns to Heathfield.
My guess is she is taken on by the Thomas family as a servant and starts a relationship with her employer who leaves Catherine (Arnold) his wife and daus. They go to London back to the Brompton Area and the son is born. Puzzled as to why these Thomas's show up in Heathfield, Louis must have found work there.
Clearly the couple lied on the Census 1911. They were not married, although a divorce had been petitioned for by Catherine. A very grave and expensive matter in these times. Its possible she could not afford to go through with it and her estranged husband was still supporting his family in Brighton.
I dont have any further info. The son may have married and died in Fulham, London where he was regd. as a birth but I only have initials to go on. Ive found no death for Matilda Sands/Thomas she may have gone on and married someone else - perhaps in London.
Interesting is that may be Louis Thomas returned to his wife. I'd love to have a copy of any of the info you have Karina in this interesting case. Please message me for my E Mail Address so you can send me attachments. Likewise I can fill you in on Matildas family and let you have a copy of her birth cert. This was a very naughty couple, I'm sure my great grandmother and her strict husband must have been horrified with her grandaughter. I have a photo of Julius Sands, Matildas grandfather which I can also copy to you. My grandfather was the second youngest child, Matilda would have been 9 year older than him - his cousin in effect. I never knew my grandparents and my father never mentioned Alma or Matilda. My father was the last male Sands of this family.
Thanks for your interesting info. looking fwd. to hearing from you. M.Ann