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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: fuseman on Monday 08 October 12 14:03 BST (UK)
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Hi all was wondering if someone could give me a little help, I have been looking on and off for my GG mother for sometime now and until now have drawn a blank. She was from Ireland originally and I have documents which state her name as Cecilia Fhay but on doing a little digging I have concluded or at least I think I have that she was actually Cecilia Foy born in 1860 in Galway Ireland, and I think I may have found her in the 1871 census living somewere in Walsall Staffordshire with he mother Mary Foy? but not 100% sure as she is listed as Celia. I now think that I may have found her marriage in the Dec Q of 1877 but what I need to know is who she married? so that I can try and tie any names together from now going backwards (if that makes sense), the marriage record I have found is Vol 6b page 1029, can anyone see who the groom was for me please. Many thanks for any help... Dave :)
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Previous thread-
Can't find place in Ireland (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,553299.msg4062674.html#msg4062674)
Cecilia also mentioned here-
FOYs of Tuam (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,538550.msg4068023.html#msg4068023)
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1877
same page
Cecilia Foy
William Naughten
Rebecca Stackhouse
John Boyd
These are together 1881 Walsall
Pam
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Hi
Its John Boyd of William Naughten
Margp
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Hello,
I would imagine that this is her in 1881 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3VH-M6S
She is listed as Laughton though.
regards
heywood
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Hi again and thanks, the name William Naughton has come up before but I can't link it with any family member unless she remarried and had a name change? also MargP what does the referance John Boyd of William Naughten mean? Thanks again
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Hi again and thanks, the name William Naughton has come up before but I can't link it with any family member unless she remarried and had a name change? also MargP what does the referance John Boyd of William Naughten mean? Thanks again
The names John Boyd and William Naughten are on the same page for the Marriage for Celia Foy Vol 6b page 1029 and it looks like she married a William Naughton or Laughton re Heywoods post for the 1881 census, and that is the only marriage for a Celia Foy. You say you can't link Naughton to the family, what name were you hoping for so we can check if she did remarry.
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Thanks, makes sense now, I will have to try and find out my G mothers maiden name, I know she married a Fredderick Mentor Westbury but I can't for the life of me remember her maiden name but Im 100% sure it wasn't Naughten or Laughton or Foy. Thanks
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Hi
There is a marriage for Frederick Mentor Westbury to a Mary Ann Lawton in 1880 Walsall this may be the Laughton connection but spelt a different way???
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Hi Dave,
as Marg says, there is the Westbury/Lawton marriage in 1880. In 1881.
This looks like the couple in 1881 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3VH-MSS
In 1871, Mary Ann Lawton is living with these grandparents Samuel and Maria Jacomb.
Is this the right family and if so what about Cecilia Foy?
regards
heywood
Just caught up with previous thread re Cecilia Marlow - so perhaps the Westburys are different grandparents ?
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Hi, I have gone completely of the track with this one, that's what you get at my age for trying to remember what you did 12 months ago, so I will start again.
From what I think I have found, Cecilia or Celia Foy was born in Galway Ireland I think in 1860 (this has come from a berth registration I found and the year seems about right) Now somewhere between 1860 and 1886 she moved to England and ended up in Walsall Staffordshire. In Walsall during 1886 she gave birth to my G Mother Emma Marlow (it was Emma who married Frederick Mentor Westbury, but not the one in the previous message but his son) On Emma's birth certificate which I have the mother is shown as Celia Marlow formally Fahy. but I can't find any marriage between a Foy or a Fahy to a Marlow, I have no idea of Mr Marlows christian name. Im at a loss with Miss Foy or Fahy so any help would be more than appriciated. Thanks
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Hi
Could this be the baptist record for Emma
Emma Marlow
Baptism 13 May 1886 St. Paul, Walsall, Stafford, England
Birth date 03 Mar 1886
Father's name Edward Marlow
Mother's name Celia
Margp
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I think it is the thread you have titled 'Can't find the place in Ireland' where there is information about Cecilia and family.
1891 has Edwin and Celia with children Edwin, Mary, Celia and Julia.
1901 has Edward and Cecelia with several children.
Emma is possibly the Mary shown in 1891.
I can't see a birth for Edwin but there is one for an Edward - Dec 1883 Walsall volume 6b pg 712
It may be worth getting that certificate to see if he has Cecilia as mother. This would help re timing of the 'marriage'.
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That Baptisim looks good as Emma was born on 3/3. Thanks for that
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On the birth certificate for Emma does it mention the fathers name and who was the informant
Margp
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Hi, no there is no fathers name and the informant was Celia Marlow the mother. The conclusion that I'm fast coming to is that Celia married William Naughten who then maybe died, she then remarried to Edward Marlow???????. I can find no marriage of a Celia or Cecilia Naughton or Foy only the Naughten/Foy marriage as mentioned in a previous post, however I did see listed a death of a William Naughten during 1879 but this was in Ireland so not sure if its the same person,
This lady is a complete mystery.
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Hi Fuseman
I was just about to post the same, I spent most of yesterday looking for a marriage with no luck, Celia's husband is not with her on the 1881 census and is shown as married, my conclusion on this, is that they split up, and she never married Edward because she was already married to William, why was the father not shown on Emma's BC, but it was on the baptist record.?????????
I have some additional information for her marriage to William
William Naughton to Cecilia Fahy
8 Dec 1877 St Patrick (RC) Walsall
Grooms Father John Naughton
Brides Father John Fahy
Witnesses Martin Fahy and Barbara Owen
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Hi
Information removed
Alan
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Hi Fuseman
I was just about to post the same, I spent most of yesterday looking for a marriage with no luck, Celia's husband is not with her on the 1881 census and is shown as married, my conclusion on this, is that they split up, and she never married Edward because she was already married to William, why was the father not shown on Emma's BC, but it was on the baptist record.?????????
I have some additional information for her marriage to William
William Naughton to Cecilia Fahy
8 Dec 1877 St Patrick (RC) Walsall
Grooms Father John Naughton
Brides Father John Fahy
Witnesses Martin Fahy and Barbara Owen
That's great Marg.
Edward may have been the father but as they were not married Cecilia may not have given him officially as the father on the certificate. Perhaps for baptism purposes, it wouldn't matter. :-\
Dave,
in the earlier thread, I suggested getting the marriage certificate to check. If you remember too there was a Martin Foy/Fay/Fahy in Penkridge with a younger daughter Cecilia who may be this Martin and perhaps your Cecilia's brother.
heywood
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There is also a Martin Fahy b 1847 Galway Ireland in Walsall he marries a Mary Gleeson
1881 census 2824/61/11
Margp
Pushed for time will be back later
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Hi Marg,
Just to save time -
This is from earlier thread:
From research I have carried out on ancestry I think but not 100% sure that her mother was named Mary Elizabeth Gleason. b, abt 1835 also in LOAMS d. 1923 and her father was Martin Francis Fay b. abt 1830 also in LOAMS d. 1921. Thanks
It looks as though this information may have derived from 1881 RG11 2824 / 61 / 11
Martin and Mary Fahy with several children including Cealia born 1874 and a mother in law Mary Glesson.
There is a Foy family at 1881 RG11 2826 / 11 / 15
Martin Foy and Ellen Foy from 'Chume' - they look to be married in Penkridge in 1866
The second Martin (Penkridge) does not look to be the one.
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Now you come to mention it I do remember that previous post and the reference to Penkridge, I can't remember how at the time I came to the conclusion it was a different family but as Haywood says it looks like its the wrong Martin. So from what MargP found out Cecilia's name was Fahy as shown on Emma's birth cert and not Foy, interesting also to see they were married at St Pats, the old church has long gone but it was replaced with a new one about 50 years ago and is not far from were I live. Very interested in Tall Al's post though regarding Cecilia passing away in 1906, could I ask Tall Al if he could let me know under which surname the death was recorded so that I can try and trace her burial. I personally assumed that Cecilia had lived a lot longer as I can remember my late father telling me about her talking with a very broad Irish accent and smoking a pipe as though he could remember seeing her, but he wasn't born until 1922? perhaps he was just repeating stories he had been told by his mom Emma. Thanks for your replies much appreciated.. Dave
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Hi Dave
Its strange I can't find any other baptist records the there other children, only Emma's in a C of E church, I wonder if the rest of the children were christened at the catholic church, do you go to History Centre in Essex St Walsall, I know that they have the Catholic Records there, it may be worth have a look to see what you can find.
Marg
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Hi Dave,
Free BMD has the death of Cecilia Marlow, 44 years in March 1906 - Walsall volume 6b page 444
heywood
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As posted earlier there seem to be 2 Martin Fahys in 1881.
The other one which you saw in a family tree is perhaps more the brother of Cecilia.
Free BMD has the 1865 marriage of Martin Fahy and Mary Gleeson.
1871 has them transcribed as Faley
1881 has them as Fahy
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Hi Marg, yes I get to the history museum as often as I can, I haven't been for a while though due to work commitments I had to shelve my research for a few months, but now the dark nights are back its full steam ahead again. I would think looking at the marriage details you found that Cecilia and William were possibly RC, but perhaps Edward Marlow was C of E, hence Emma's baptism at St Paul's. correct me if I'm wrong but am I right in thinking that if Cecilia and William had separated being of the RC faith a divorce would not have been allowed or is my mind working overtime?. Also as I said earlier I found a death listed for a William Naughten in Ireland 2 years after the wedding DOD 1879, if this is the same William then perhaps he went back home for some reason and Cecilia stayed in England with her family, she may not have know he had died explaining why no marriage can be found to Edward Marlow, I get the impression that Cecilia was not a very well educated young lady, on Emma's birth cert it says " X the mark of Cecilia Marlow formally Fahy" this indicates to me she couldn't write and if my memory serves me right I'm sure last time I looked for her I found her listed in a census as an imbecile which I think would also indicate that she couldn't write and possibly not able to read. Perhaps she spent her adult life thinking she was an adulteress when she was actually a widow.
As you say Marg its strange you could find no baptism records next time I'm at the history museum I will see what I can find, also I want to try and find were she is buried, it could be the Queen St cemetery or possibly Rycroft which opened in 1894, I hope its the later as I have more chance of finding the grave as Queen St is long gone. Thanks.. Dave
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Thanks Haywood, I think you are right I can't find it in my old notes at the moment the but name Gleeson rings a bell for some reason, I will have a good look through my old note books and see what I turn up.
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Hi Dave
I also need to go to Rycroft my husbands family the Stanton's and the Proud's all came from Calmore and the Pleck and a lot of them are buried there, it may be in the next few weeks so if you have not been by then, give me the details and I will see what I can find
Margp
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Thanks Marg, will let you know. Dave