RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: forloveofmother on Saturday 29 August 09 06:37 BST (UK)
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Hello again! I have found this site so wonderful including the people who answer the posts.
I am trying to confirm my mother's information on her great grandparents Robert Bell (farmer) and Martha BELL.
Mom had his birth initially at approximately 1822 but then also has it as 1807, Seafin, Down, Ireland. He had two sisters Eliza Ann who married William Johnston, and Rebecca who married a Johnston brother. Joseph Bell is listed as a brother to Eliza Ann. A cousin of Robert Bell was Martha Mitchell Cupples.
Robert BELL was married to Martha BELL (maiden name Bell, maybe a second cousin) born about 1826 but also could be 1808 from Seafin or Magheral. I have her brothers as Henry Bell (to Liverpool) and William Bell (painter, District Grand Master Orange Lodge). Her sisters were Rebecca, Mary who married Mr. Camlin (Drumadonald).
Robert and Martha Bell's son was Robert Bell born 1848 of Seafin who was married to Rachel Young born 1847 of Annahinchago (my mother's grandparents).
My mother had noted Seafin as the birth place for Both Robert Bell and Martha Bell. Their child Robert and other siblings lived and died in Rathfriland.
I would love to verify this information both from any distant relatives' records or can someone point me to where to look for parish records to locate documents of either birth, marriage or death certificates. What would the parish be (Presbyterian) in Seafin. ? Drumballyroney.
Please tell me about the history of Seafin or point me in that direction.
Bunches of questions I know.
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Seafin from the great Ros Davies website is described as Seafin
or Seaphin Drumballyroney 29: 21/38 a townland 1km NW of Ballyroney village; 399 acres; click here to see its location on a townland map; means ' Finn's seat'; proprietor Marquis of Downshire whose agent was William E. Reilly of Hillsborough in 1836; rents were from 18-20 shillings an acre; farms from 10-25 acres; flax mill; farms of Mr Morrow & Mr Quin here in 1836; ancient foundations of legendary Finn McCoole’s castle built to replace the motte & bailey in Ballyroney townland & which belonged to Sir Art Megennis in 1609 here, it's on bend in River Bann, 2km S of Katesbridge V3 p 13, 16, 18 OSM; old b/w map G9; PNNI V6 p 174, 175, 176; IPP p 110
Ros Davies website should include the Bells of Seafin, tell you all in next chat
Jim
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hoping you have not seen ros davies source, heres more
So from http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES
Some examples
Elizabeth BELL . Drumballyroney of Seafin; left a will in 1831; executor was John Bell of Rathfriland
George BELL . Drumballyroney died 1872; cousin of James, John & Robert; buried Presbyterian graveyard, Ballyroney MIs
Henry BELL . Drumballyroney of Lisnamagheral ; will probated 1814 IIW V4 p9
James BELL . Drumballyroney died 1865; buried Presbyterian graveyard, Ballyroney
John BELL . Drumballyroney of Seafin ; will probated 1804 IIW V4 p9
John BELL . Drumballyroney of Grallaghgreenan; will probated in 1829; executor was Robert Caldwell of Rathfriland IIW # 5050;IIW V4 p9
John BELL . Drumballyroney of Seafin ; will probated 1845 IIW V4 p9
John BELL . Drumballyroney of Lisnavagheral ; will probated 1846 IIW V4 p9
John BELL . Drumballyroney died 1875; buried Presbyterian graveyard, Ballyroney MIs
Mrs. Margaret BELL . Drumballyroney of Ballyroney ; will probated 1741; nee Safely IIW V4 p9
Miss Mary BELL . Drumballyroney & Drumgooland & Aghaderg daughter of David Bell; married Thomas McAuley 22 Oct 1862 in Drumballyroney; mother of Martha b. 1870 (regd. Ballyward) & James b. 1872 (regd. Loughbrickland) CR
Robert BELL . Drumballyroney died 1897; buried Presbyterian graveyard, Ballyroney MIs
Sarah BELL . Drumballyroney of Moneygore ; leased a house in 1863 fromElizabeth Davidson GV
Thomas BELL . Drumballyroney son of John Bell ; married Margaret Rowan 8 Sep 1854 CR
Jim
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Thank you Jim for responding to my post.
How do I understand what is written:
Drumballyroney of Seafin
Drumballyroney of Lisnavagheral
Drumballyroney of Grallaghgreenan
Drumballyroney of Ballyroney
? Drumballyroney the Parish and Seafin, Ballyroney, etc. the township or village?.
So how do I go about trying to get parish/church records from Seafin or Presbyterian graveyard inscriptions. Robert Bell, Drumballyroney died 1897 might be close and the other Bells must be related somehow. How do I find further information for each person on the list you have provided me from RosDavies? Trying to figure out how to put the puzzle pieces together with proper documentation. Just a beginner I am!
Also the history information was excellent about Seafin, can't wait to hear another chapter! Are there old photographs of Seafin in the 1800s.
Cathy
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Cathy, you can go to Ros Davies' site and read through the information yourself (loads of details on surnames, places, etc.)-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES
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There is Ballyroney Presbyterian church about 300 mts. from Seafin. You can also see Bell family births etc. info at http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com/html/index2.htm under Rathfriland.
Cheers, Sam
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Cheers to you Sam. :-* Thanks for the advice on the Raymond's County Down website and for answering my post on the Bell family from Seafin/Rathfriland. I will check it out further.
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;D Many thanks aghadowey for reviewing my post on the Bell family from Seafin/Rathfriland. I very much appreciate the website link. Your help as always is greatly appreciated!
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Hello to all. :) I am renewing the hunt since my last post several years ago, for two Bell families, Robert Bell from Seafin, died approximately 1888 at age 81, a farmer. Martha Mitchell Cupples was a cousin.
His wife is Martha (nee Bell, a second cousin) Bell, died approximately 1894 of either Seafin or Magheral. What is the difference between these two towns.
Do any death certificates exist from this time period and where would I find them? I have information sent to me of these dates on a Ballyroney grave marker but would like the paper trail and documentation of children if possible.
I also do not have their marriage record. Do any records exist. I believe their first child was born around 1826 (possibly Joseph) through about 1849 (if that is possible).
Sincere Thanks for any response
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Hi, To answer your question on Seafin and Magheral, these are two rural townlands about two miles N/E of Rathfriland. It is a farming area and the townlands are adjoining so in places they would be separated only by a hedge.
Cheers, Sam.
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Hello again Sam!
Thank you for your time in giving a reply. To further clarify, a place called Magheral, is that name shortened/abbreviated? So many places start with Maghera.... ???(i.e. Magheralin, Magheralagan, Magherally, Magheralone ). Is there a meaning for the first part of that name (Maghera)?. Where would the birth, marriage, death records of this place be stored? Was this place predominantly Presbyterian as my ancestors were? The name Lisnavaghrog is listed. How does this name fit into the picture? What reference book could you point me to to learn about the history of this area? So many questions that need answers for this tiny brain to gain an understanding!
Ever grateful, Cathy
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You dont seem to use maps, do try , http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/DrumballyroneyTownlands.htm.
If you dont find your townland then look up Rod Davies places. If it s townland, she normally has a link to the civil parish map. What more could anyone want. Ireland records are either filed under church records or by civil parish, which contains a few or many town lands. Access to church records are difficult. Family search is most useful in Ireland . Ros Davies under churches is extra helpful saying what available. getting access is a different process requiring lots of luck. I can't help any more good luck.
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Hi Cathy,
The townland is written as Magheral on the maps so it is the full name. As your ancestors were Presbyterian the church they most likely went to would have been Ballyroney or else one of the four Presbyterian churches in Rathfriland.
I will send you a PM later.
Cheers, Sam.
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Is there a meaning for the first part of that name (Maghera)?. Where would the birth, marriage, death records of this place be stored?
The word “Maghera” means a plain or flat field. That should help explain why it appears in so many place names.
If you are looking for the statutory records of births, deaths and marriages, they are on the Familysearch site.
If you are looking for church records, then in addition to the advice already given, copies of the surviving records for the 4 Presbyterian churches in Rathfriland are held in PRONI, Belfast. They are not on-line and so you would either need to go yourself or have someone else search for you.