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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Jill Eaton on Saturday 06 October 12 15:10 BST (UK)

Title: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Jill Eaton on Saturday 06 October 12 15:10 BST (UK)
Bit of an odd question but can anyone tell me if, when the father's name  is given by the mother on the  irth certificate, would have been noted on the certificate if the father was deceased at the time of registration?

I know it's written after the father's name on some marriage certificates

Jillie
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: kevinf2349 on Saturday 06 October 12 15:42 BST (UK)
I have a brith certificate where the father is noted as deceased on the BC.

He died a couple of months before the birth of his son.

Kevin
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Jill Eaton on Saturday 06 October 12 16:07 BST (UK)
Cheers Kevin

That helps a lot.

I'm trying to work out when the father died as I know his twin daughters were born and registered in Nov 1865 and his wife was a widow by 1871. There is no mention of him being deceased on the birth registration so this narrows my time frame down a little more. Initially, it was possible that he could fathered his children and died before they born. Now I can add at least 9 months on.

Jillie
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 06 October 12 16:12 BST (UK)
Hi

Welcome to rootschat  :)

I suppose it would depend as to whether the person registering the birth stated that he was dead, it probably wasn't a question that was normally asked when a birth was registered. 

Rosie
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Marmalady on Saturday 06 October 12 18:53 BST (UK)
Just as on marriage certificates, the omission of the word "deceased" does not prove he was alive at the time

As Rosie says, the question would not be routinely asked and if the informant did not volunteer the information, no-one would know and so it would not be entered on the certificate

So add those 9 months back onto the time-frame!
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 07 October 12 01:32 BST (UK)
It is sometimes noted in the parish register if one or both parents are deceased when a child is baptised, so it might be worth looking for a baptism record.
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 07 October 12 08:52 BST (UK)
It is sometimes noted as - the posthumous son of or the posthumous daughter of
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Jill Eaton on Sunday 07 October 12 12:59 BST (UK)
9 months added back again >:(

I've been unable to find the baptism on ancestry. I know the twins' names - Hannah and Mary Williams born 2nd November 1865. Registered 29th November by the mother Hannah Williams of St Catherine's Road, Kensington Town. Father John Williams.

So I'm unable to check whether he was noted as deceased.

I did post  in 2008 about John Williams. I was Jillie42 then but couldn't log in under my old name as my old email address has been hacked into.

I got lots of help but had to leave it as I couldn't' make any head way.

I've decided to retry and locate him as i can't trace that part of my family with so little information about him. There was never an age given on his marriage certificate in 1863 to Hannah Fuller. just the location - St Martins in the Fields. He was just described as a labourer, bachelor, Of full age.

So now I'm trying to narrow down the possibles on Free BMD and attempting to winnow out the unlikeliest. Hit and miss I know but it's all I've got to go on

Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Plummiegirl on Sunday 07 October 12 13:20 BST (UK)
Must add my bit

My g/g/grandfather is listed as deceased on several of his daughters marriage certificates. 

He was alive and well and living with his 2nd much younger wife!!!

Do not believe all you see....

And as said before, people often only ever answered the questions asked and never volunteered other information.  So unless the registrar asked if father was alive, it would not have occurred to whoever was registering (probably the wife or her parents) the birth to mention if he was dead.

People were often very suspicious of those in jobs of authority.
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Jill Eaton on Sunday 07 October 12 13:44 BST (UK)
Must add my bit

My g/g/grandfather is listed as deceased on several of his daughters marriage certificates. 

He was alive and well and living with his 2nd much younger wife!!!

Do not believe all you see....


Yes. I've had fathers on marriage certificates who never existed at all - at least not by the name they were recorded as.

I was simply hoping the father's demise (or not) would be a standard question. I appreciate it was a long shot
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: Plummiegirl on Monday 08 October 12 12:31 BST (UK)
Forgot to add that the sister of said g/grandfather had 2 illegitimate daughters (to same man judging by later info).  No father mentioned on either birth certificate.

However, when the eldest one married she named her father and claimed he was a surgeon! 

This man never existed nor can I find any record of the man also named later by both daughters.   

The problem is that illegitimacy was such a taboo subject, yet so common, that people were ostracised and it was never if rarely talked about within the family.
 
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: ambers on Thursday 11 October 12 15:46 BST (UK)
A few instances from some of the  certificates I have.

Father registered all five births, he was their father, but not their mothers husband...someone else was.

Child registered and baptised without a mention that his mother died four days after his birth.

Two from different families where  a fathers name and occupation is listed on the birth certificates....I don't think they existed.

One certificate and baptism where the father is noted as deceased.

Two marriage certificates  where the father is noted as deceased, but he is actually living with another woman.... No1 on my list, one with five children.

Two where the father is actually deceased, so I guess no one asked them that question.

So we can't believe all we find on official documents.

Ambers
Title: Re: Birth certificates - father's name
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 11 October 12 16:02 BST (UK)
Here are some of the previous links and the info already found.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,295235.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,295108.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,275967.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,204912.0.html

Carol