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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: johnkingedinburgh on Friday 05 October 12 17:02 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help, I've reached a bit of a brick wall :o
I tracked down my grandad's birth certificate - ooh what a scandal!
Name: William McCulloch Sloss (Illegitimate)
Born: 15th February 1892 at Royal Maternity Hospital, Edinburgh
Mother: Jessie Sloss, Domestic Servant - Domicile Dalmellington
Father: Unknown
Birth registered by: mother
Then I looked at the 1901 Census and found:
Address: 5 Linkieburn House, Muirkirk, Ayr
William McCulloch - Head - Married - 58 - Colliery Manager - Worker - Monkland?
John McCulloch - Son - Single - 22 - Mining Engineer - Worker - Ayrshire, Kilmarnock
Jessie Sloss - Servant - Single - 31 - Ayrshire, Dalmellington
Whilst by 1911 I found my Grandad with his adopted parents:
Address: Bellevue Cottage, Bridge Street, Tranent
John Innes (Head) 53, Married, Dairyman, Employer. Birthplace Haddington, Tranent
Mary Innes (Wife) 47. Years Married: 26, Birthplace: Abercrombie, Fifeshire
William Innes (Adopted Son) 19, Single, Dairyman, Worker, Birthplace: Haddington, Tranent
Georgina White (Neice) 15, General Servant Domestic, Worker, Birthplace: Fife, St Andrews
Jessie Sloss died in 1904 of TB aged just 35.
My mum remembers Sloss's and McCulloch's and indeed Sloss was used in middle names.
Now piecing it together, I reckon that William McCulloch who had a son but no wife meaning she has either left him or more likely in those days died, has been having his jollies with the Servant girl, Jessie Sloss.
To save scandal she's been packed off to Edinburgh to have the baby and have it adopted by what were perhaps family friend's the Innes's - hence naming the baby after her boss. She then returned to her duties in Ayrshire.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what I could investigate next?
There is no birth certificate for a Jessie Sloss around the year she was born anywhere in Scotland. My mum believed that the Sloss line came from Germany - any way to check a list of people who emigrated from Germany?
I believe there are no adoption records before 1930?
I've got my grandad's line from the Innes's but curious about this Sloss / McCulloch connection!
Anything else I could check?
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Is Jessie working for the McCullochs in 1891? William McCulloch Sloss would have been conceived around May 1891.
Josey
Later: Answered my own question - yes!
Linkilburn House, Muirkirk
William McCulloch 50 colliery manager
John McCulloch 18 Apprentice C & M Engineer
David McCulloch 13 scholar
Nellie McCulloch 16 do
Jessie McCulloch 14 do
Jessie Sloss housekeeper 25 born Dalmellington
Unfortunately the transcription does not state William's marital status.
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What names were given for Jessie's parents on her 1904 death cert?
Closest I can see for Jessie around the time she was born (if her Dalmellington birth place is correct) is this entry in 1871:
Robert Sloss 28, farm servant
Margaret Sloss 29
Jessie Sloss 6
Robert Sloss 2
Address: Ponnyam Street Dalmellington
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYPZ-WVG
Monica
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Josey, that 1891 census entry you posted for Jessie with the McCulloch family, her age fits well with an 1865 birth as per familysearch :)
Monica
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Thanks folks! On her death certificate I'd mis-read her age, it said 38 so it ties in with a birthdate of 1865, and sure enough the parents Robert Sloss and Margret Sloss nee Lees (my aunty was also Margaret Lees Innes) on birth and death certificate! She was a spinster when she died.
William McCulloch Sloss appears to have been born 15th February 1892.
Any thoughts on anything else I could check? (aside from following the Jessie's brother and parents which I'm going to do)
Does my theory that the father is her employer (bearing in mind she named the child after her boss - unless that was some kind of tradition?) seem like the most plausible explanation?
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I think your thoughts as to how the name of William McCulloch Sloss came to be are very sound.
What would you say if you found that Jessie went on to have another son, a John INNES Sloss in 1902 ::)....I know, the name of your William's adoptive father. Not implying he was the father, just the potential connection!
You have photos of your grandfather? Found some online material with photos, lots of them, including one of Jessie... :)
Monica
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This is William McCulloch, wife Margaret and children in 1881, from what Josey found earlier:
William McCalloch 40, Colliery Manager b. O. Monkland, Lanarkshire
Margaret McCalloch 40 b. Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire
Thomas McCalloch 14
William McCalloch 12
John McCalloch 8
Ellen McCalloch 6
Jessie McCalloch 4
David McCalloch
Address: Linkieburn Ho., Muirkirk, Ayrshire
I think wife/mother is a Margaret Steel. Don't think she died likely until 1901 from what I can see on SP. Have you viewed the original 1901 image to check what it said regarding William McCulloch's marital status?
Monica
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I think your thoughts as to how the name of William McCulloch Sloss came to be are very sound.
What would you say if you found that Jessie went on to have another son, a John INNES Sloss in 1902 ::)....I know, the name of your William's adoptive father. Not implying he was the father, just the potential connection!
You have photos of your grandfather? Found some online material with photos, lots of them, including one of Jessie... :)
Monica
Wow that's amazing! How did you manage to find out about her other Son?
Sounds like she was a bit of a naughty girl and a prime candidate for Ye Olde Jeremy Kyle ;)
Going to check my mum's loft, hoping she might have photos of my granddad, where did you find the ones of Jessie?
Have you viewed the original 1901 image to check what it said regarding William McCulloch's marital status?
Good point! He's put down that he is married.
Thanks again, really interesting stuff!
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According to Black's surnames of Scotland the surname Sloss is derived from Auchincloss.
The surname is relatively common in Ayrshire and has been around for some time.
It's not impossible that in this case it originates elsewhere but given she's born in Dalmellington I'd tend towards believing her parentage is Scottish rather than Germanic.
I can probably help further with more detail on the Sloss and possibly the Innes side. Will pm you.
S_L
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Wondered whether you had found William McCulloch Sloss [or Innes] on the 1901 census?
Josey
Later: Should have looked first!
Could this be him? Haven't seen the original image, only a transcription.
82 Bridge St south side, Tranent
John Inness 44 dairyman born Tranent
Mary Inness 38 born Abercrombie, Fife
Andrew Inness 16 'other relative' assistant dairyman born Tranent
William Inness 9 scholar son born Tranent [same as 1911]
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Josey, I thought this might be the family with William showing like this:
John Inness 44 dairyman b. Tranent
Mary Inness 38 b. Abercrombie, Fifeshire
Andrew Inness 16, son b. Tranent
William Inness 9 son b. Tranent
Address: 82 Bridge St South Side, Tranent East Lothian
Thought this fitted well with what John posted later for 1911:
Address: Bellevue Cottage, Bridge Street, Tranent
John Innes (Head) 53, Married, Dairyman, Employer. Birthplace Haddington, Tranent
Mary Innes (Wife) 47. Years Married: 26, Birthplace: Abercrombie, Fifeshire
William Innes (Adopted Son) 19, Single, Dairyman, Worker, Birthplace: Haddington, Tranent
Georgina White (Neice) 15, General Servant Domestic, Worker, Birthplace: Fife, St Andrews
Monica
PS: The only wrinkle is the birth place still of Haddington?
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Talk about 'crossed in the post'! ;D
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;D
Did wonder where the other son, Andrew from 1901 sprang up from. If I have the right entry for 1891, it shows just John a coal miner then and wife Mary, in Tranent.
Monica
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Perhaps he was an earlier adopted son? The *nc*str* transcription shows him as 'relative' & 'other relative'.
I wonder if John's mother remembers an 'uncle' Andrew, 'brother' to her father?
Josey
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Ah I wondered why I couldn't find John Innes in the 1901 census, I'd even tried looking for their neighbours in 1911 to find the page to see who was living at the address in Bridge Street (my grandad William Sloss Innes lived there until he died in the early 70s).
It seems on the 1901 census his name has an extra "s" i.e. inness - which explains why I couldn't find them, thanks for that!
So that shows that he had definately been adopted before Jessie's death in 1904.
My brother asked my mum for the story again last night (which is probably the story given to her and she's never had any reason to question it).
Official Story: William McCulloch and his wife - maiden name Jessie Sloss gave birth to William. Jessie Sloss died and William McCulloch was unable to look after the child so had him adopted by John and Mary Innes of Tranent - who had twins that died and were unable to have any more children, hence the adoption. William McCulloch would come through to see William and take him to hotels in princess street and buy him lunch. William lived in a mansion which should have been left to young William, but solicitors tricked him out of it. The family kept in touch with Sloss's and McCulloch's in Ayrshire even when my mum was born in the 30s.
What really happened: William's wife had already dissapeared (presumed dead but not had chance to check yet) by the time William was born. His birth certificate shows "Illigitimate" and his mother as Jessie Sloss, Domestic Servant. The census shows that she was in the employ of William McCulloch. His father, also William McCulloch had several illegitimate children with his servant before making an honest woman of her!
So it would seem that William McCulloch got his servant Jessie Sloss pregnant, had the baby adopted by (I presume a good friend) John Innes, and periodically took him out to spend time with him. The fact that Jessie went on to have another illegitimate child called John Innes Sloss makes me think that she became friendly with William's adoptive father, I'm not sure what happened to him.
William McCulloch was a colliery manager according to the census, so he was probably comfortable but certainly not rich - he lived in a miners cottage with 6 windows - so the story of the fortune that was stolen by solicitors would seem to be just a story - after all if you're going to cover up an illegitimate birth you may as well make it a good one!
Does anyone have any ideas on how I could track down how William McCulloch and John Innes knew each other? I'm suspecting not, but you seem to be magician's at tracking stuff down so thought I'd ask!
I've not heard of Mum's uncle Andrew (though one of her brothers was named Andrew born 1919) nor of an Uncle John, but will ask and see what she says!
Thanks again!
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btw the official story on the German connection was that the Sloss's had a vineyard in Germany but flee'd Germany to escape persecution and settled in Scotland. But again, like the stories of lost fortunes it may have just been a story.
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One idea for the connection between William snr & John Innes - it may be worth finding out Mary Innes' maiden surname - she may have been a McCulloch. Does the 1911 census say how long the Innes' have been married, how many children they have had & how many survive? I don't have any credit left on SP unfortunately.
Ayrshire is quite a way from Haddington.
Interesting that William jnr named a child Andrew.
Josey
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;D
If I have the right entry for 1891, it shows just John a coal miner then and wife Mary, in Tranent.
Monica
And William McCulloch was a colliery manager, perhaps they met through mining?
Josey
Could this be William in 1871?
Riccarton Ayrshire
Cadgers Rd Goudier Land
William Mccullock Age: 30 Head coal miner born Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Margaret Mccullock 32 born Wichnor Lanarkshire
David Mccullock 7 born do
Thomas Mccullock 4 born do
William Mccullock 2 born Riccarton
However, can't find this family in 1881.
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Ah that's an interesting idea!
I'm pretty sure Mary is Mary Cullens White - mum's eldest sister is Mary Cullens, and on what I think is their wedding certificate that is the name given. Also in 1911 there is a niece called Georgina White living with them, and accoring to the wedding certificate Mary's mum was called Georgina White. There is also a Georgina White born in Abercrombie, Fife in 1863 which tallies.
On this wedding certificate John Innes is down as a coal miner, so the mining connection you suggest could be spot on!
In 1911 it says they were married for 26 years, children born alive - none.
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Could this be William in 1871?
Riccarton Ayrshire
Cadgers Rd Goudier Land
William Mccullock Age: 30 Head coal miner born Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Margaret Mccullock 32 born Wichnor Lanarkshire
David Mccullock 7 born do
Thomas Mccullock 4 born do
William Mccullock 2 born Riccarton
However, can't find this family in 1881.
I think it is, I found this family tree in Google:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/h/o/Andrew-D-Shore/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0159.html
which shows that his dad was having illegitimate children with his servant too (before marrying her).
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I feel we are writing a script...but like the way it is all coming together (with some facts and docs!) ;)
One bit to add is that I think Margaret Steel wife of William McCulloch did not die until 1901. On creative script mode: I think she left the family home before 1891, where we have Jessie Sloss already working at the home of the McCullochs. There are likely census entries for a Margaret (Steel?) McCulloch in Kilmarnock in both 1891/1901 (from memory - would have to go back to find). She died in October 1901. A Helen McCulloch reported the death, described as 'occupier' (term sometimes used, means simply living at the same address). A couple of hiccups to this cert:
- No relationship included for Helen who informed.
- Husband down as Robert, a collliery underground manager (sounds much like William).
- Margaret's parents' details not know.
Monica
PS: Also from what you said earlier John, William McCulloch showed as still married on his 1901 census entry....
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Regarding John Innes Sloss, there is a likely marriage entry showing for him in 1941 in Dalmellington to an Agnes. There are three entries for this marriage, all to do with Agnes' surnames. Each surname has a different reg entry although all GROS references are the same (Graham, McCubbin, Robertson).
This year is outside the cut off to view online unfortunately (currently 1935). Would have to be ordered or viewed at one of the main Scottish centres/registery offices that offer this service.
Monica
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John, your posting title is getting more & more apt :)
I think there must be some really bad transcription on *nc*str* which is why William & family can't be found 1881 or on familysearch btw. The website John links to also states Margaret died in Oct 1901. It does mention a daughter Helen [Nellie on the 1891 census] born 1874. If we find those 1891 & 1901 entries Monica mentioned for Margaret in Kilmarnock, we may find the younger children.
Are we at the casting stage yet, Monica? :)
Josey
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For William McCulloch and family, this I think is the summary of census for 1881-1901 from what we had:
1881:
William McCalloch 40, Colliery Manager b. O. Monkland, Lanarkshire
Margaret McCalloch 40 b. Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire
Thomas McCalloch 14
William McCalloch 12
John McCalloch 8
Ellen McCalloch 6
Jessie McCalloch 4
David McCalloch
Address: Linkieburn Ho., Muirkirk, Ayrshire
1891:
William McCulloch 50 colliery manager
John McCulloch 18 Apprentice C & M Engineer
David McCulloch 13 scholar
Nellie McCulloch 16 do
Jessie McCulloch 14 do
Jessie Sloss housekeeper 25 born Dalmellington
Address: Linkilburn House, Muirkirk
1901:
William McCulloch - Head - Married - 58 - Colliery Manager - Worker - Monkland?
John McCulloch - Son - Single - 22 - Mining Engineer - Worker - Ayrshire, Kilmarnock
Jessie Sloss - Servant - Single - 31 - Ayrshire, Dalmellington
Address: 5 Linkieburn House, Muirkirk, Ayr
Let me go and find those possible entries I found for Margaret (although I don't think any other names showed that helped...)
Monica
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Whilst I look for Margaret Steel in 1891/1901 ::) this is what I think is her dc key info:
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I think it is, I found this family tree in Google:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/h/o/Andrew-D-Shore/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0159.html
which shows that his dad was having illegitimate children with his servant too (before marrying her).
This website shows
Children of William McCulloch and Margaret Steele are:
David McCulloch, b. 1864, Wishaw, Lanarkshire, Scotland, d. 27 Apr 1877, Cumnock, Ayrshire,
+Thomas Steele McCulloch, b. 21 May 1867, Wishaw, Lanarkshire, Scotland, d. 16 Mar 1930, Auchinleck, Ayrshire
William McCulloch, b. 04 Jan 1869, Riccarton, Ayrshire, Scotland, d. 24 Aug 1890, Linkieburn House, Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Jessie McCulloch, b. Feb 1871, Riccarton, Ayrshire, Scotland, d. 10 Mar 1871, Riccarton, Ayrshire, Scotland.
+John McCulloch, b. 10 Jul 1872, Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland, d. 10 Feb 1943, Old Cumnock, Ayrshire,
Helen Watt McCulloch, b. 16 Oct 1874, Dreghorn, Ayrshire, Scotland, d. 25 Jun 1936, Kelvingrove, Glasgow
Jessie Watson McCulloch, b. 11 May 1876, Dreghorn, Ayrshire, Scotland, d. 21 Mar 1947, Partick, Glasgow
David McCulloch, b. 14 Dec 1878, Linkieburn House, Muirkirk, Ayrshire d. date unknown.
No mention of Jessie Sloss ;D. If our presumptions are correct, these will be William McCulloch Sloss' half siblings.
Perhaps, John, you could get in touch with the tree owner. Not only may you get some evidential documentation about William McCulloch your 'alleged' great grandfather, you may also be able to surprise them with the knowledge of Jessie & her offspring!
Josey
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Whilst I look for Margaret Steel in 1891/1901 ::) this is what I think is her dc key info:
Monica, you said the informant was an 'occupant' so less likely to be related - this may explain the discrepancy in her husband's name.
Good luck with your census search - I've tried without success so far.
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Arghhh...children start to arrive back home from school...concentration is coming and going on searches ::) ;D
Added: These are the census entries I was looking at... From 1881 we had Margaret b. Cambusnethan Lanarkshire c. 1841. I haven't checked as yet before to see how accurate this all was (but can ::)).
For 1891, I saw this entry. I think two households may have got jumbled up on the transcript I am looking at:
Margaret McCulloch 54, head b. Wishaw, Lanark
Janet Carrol 37, wife, wife b. Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright
James Carrol 10 Months
Address: 16 Langlands St, Kilmarnock
This entry is the only Margaret McCulloch showing in Ayrshire born Lanarkshire 1837 +/- 5rs.
For 1901:
...I am struggling now...did I dream it yesterday :-\
Monica
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Monica, you said the informant was an 'occupant' so less likely to be related - this may explain the discrepancy in her husband's name.
Strangely the term 'occupier' is quite lose and can refer to direct family in the household. I have seen it mostly used in the Aberdeenshire area. From the info you posted Josey, Helen daughter didn't marry until 1904, so who knows at this stage?
Monica
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I have tried looking the address search for 1901 on FindMyPast for SOULIS Street, Kilmarnock but can't find it. Am I reading it right?
Josey
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It does show as Soulis St - you might be searching as Street?
No McCullochs there that I can see.
Monica
Added: At a guess for Helen, there is a Nellie (she seemed to like that variant) McCulloch aged 23 showing as a visitor at the Blackwood household in Nethermyln, Kilbirnie in 1901, born in Maybole and a farm servant. Also in the household, in the entry below her is a 1 month old William Wright, also a visitor b. Kilbirnie.
John, don't think Josey and I mad for digressing from the core. Sometimes you have to go out to focus in ;)
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Thanks for all the efforts! I'm a bit lost now :)
I had a quick look for Soulis St, Kilmarnock on Google maps and there is one if that helps!
Out of curiosity I had a look to check if any Innes's had married any Sloss's or McCulloch's and came up with the following:
1 1917 MCCULLOCH JOSEPH INNES CHARLOTTE ARDROSSAN NEW /AYR 576/02 0025
2 1878 MCCULLOCH WILLIAM INNES ISABELLA LOCHEE DUNDEE CITY/ANGUS 282/05 0032
3 1907 MCCULLOCH JOHN INNES MARY FAULDHOUSE /WEST LOTHIAN 673/02 0032
3 1872 INNES JOHN MCCULLOCH MARY ANN BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0260
1 1873 SLOSS ALEXANDER INNES MARY DALZIEL /LANARK 639/00 0021
I got excited when I saw one in Dalmellington until I spotted it was in 1972!
I'm up in Edinburgh in a couple of weeks and going to go to Register House so I might have a poke about these if I get a bit of time.
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That is great that you are going to the Scotlands People Centre...have you booked in advance?
Monica
PS: Don't get lost please ;D We are just extending the family for William at all times. Ask as many questions on anything you see from everyone at any time.
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Someone mentioned Jessie dying of TB aged 34 in 1904. I don't have the original certificate but I do have a note from the index on scotlandspeople and that states 38.
Given that year of death and age at death along with a place of birth of Dalmellington I believe your Sloss side goes as follows:
Jessie born 27/03/1865 to Robert Sloss and Margaret Lees
her siblings: Andrew, John Lees, Mary, Robert, James, William
Robert married Margaret on 04/03/1864 at Ayr, New Cumnock
Robert born 8/3/1843 to James Sloss and Jessie Ferguson at Dalmellington
his siblings: Agnes, Elizabeth, Janet, Mary, Jessie, Barbara Rae (this last one I'm unsure of)
James married Jessie on 21/08/1838 at Dalmellington
James born 21/8/1817 to Robert Sloss and Mary Rae at Dalmellington
his siblings: Duncan, Elizabeth, Mary, Quintin, Thomas, Robert, John
Robert married Mary on 14/01/1816 at Dalmellington
Robert born in 1793 to James Sloss and Elizabeth Armour place unknown but probably Ayr, Dailly
his siblings: James (1791), James (1794), Jean/Jane (1803)
Hope that helps a bit.
S_L
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That is great that you are going to the Scotlands People Centre...have you booked in advance?
Oh I didn't know you could book in advance, I'd better get on to that!
I've only been there once before and didn't arrive until 2pm so only had a couple of hours but found loads on my dad's side, hoping to have a full day this time as I probably won't manage back up for about a year or so.
Someone mentioned Jessie dying of TB aged 34 in 1904. I don't have the original certificate but I do have a note from the index on scotlandspeople and that states 38.
Given that year of death and age at death along with a place of birth of Dalmellington I believe your Sloss side goes as follows:
I have got that certificate, sure enough her age is given as 38. Cause of death is given as "Plithisis Pulmonalis" which I interpret as TB?
Strangely enough, though probably of little relevance - on the same page there is the death of an Agnes McCulloch who was married to a John McCulloch - Master Baker, from Dalmellington! What are the odds of that!
Going back to the John Innes who adopted my grandad William McCulloch Sloss, my mum always said he "owned half of Tranent" and "was the richest man in the Lothians". Something in light of the McCulloch fortune story I was taking with a very large pinch of salt.
HOWEVER ... on their marriage certificate of 1884 he gives his address as New Row tranent - very close to Bellevue Cottage in Bridge Street where the family lived until my Grandparent's died in the mid 70s.
I had a look at New Row, Tranent on Google maps, and low and behold it says "Innes Buildings"!
Could be a red herring of course, but I feel a bit of googling coming on!
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I have access to the list of property records for both Innes Buildings & other property owned by John Innes, dairyman.
Pm me with your email addresses, John & Monica, & I will send them to you.
Josey
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So....John Innes, the dairyman, actually owned half the cows of East Lothian ;D I will PM now Josey!
John, regarding booking a day pass at the Scotlands People Centre www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/ always worthwhile doing if you are planning a day there (rather than just popping in on the off-chance) just in case you arrive and all the terminal places are already occupied.
Monica
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I have access to the list of property records for both Innes Buildings & other property owned by John Innes, dairyman.
Pm me with your email addresses, John & Monica, & I will send them to you.
Wow, thanks most kindly! I've sent you my email address.
So....John Innes, the dairyman, actually owned half the cows of East Lothian ;D I will PM now Josey!
Ha ha, made me chuckle!
I had a look at his death certificate (I should really wait until I got to Scotland's people but was curious) and his job title is down as Dairyman. He lived at 80 Bridge Street (Bellevue Cottage) when he died, whilst William Innes (his adopted son/my grandad) lived at New Row (presumably Innes Buildings) when he recorded the death. He must have therefore inherited 80 Bridge Street and moved there where he lived until his death in the 70s.
John, regarding booking a day pass at the Scotlands People Centre www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/ always worthwhile doing if you are planning a day there (rather than just popping in on the off-chance) just in case you arrive and all the terminal places are already occupied.
Thanks for the tip, I shall certainly do that.
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I wonder how & why John Innes changed from coal miner to dairyman between 1891 & 1901? Creative script mode: Was a mine accident & he was injured? Did William McCulloch give him money to set up a business in exchange for adopting his son? Just another story line for the soap opera!
Josey
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I wonder how & why John Innes changed from coal miner to dairyman between 1891 & 1901? Creative script mode: Was a mine accident & he was injured? Did William McCulloch give him money to set up a business in exchange for adopting his son? Just another story line for the soap opera!
Josey
Ahhh... that does have a ring of truth to it. William McCulloch a pit manager, John Innes a miner like his father before him, gets given the money to start a dairy to help support his son. It's certainly a possibility!
I think I've managed to track down the whereabouts of Jessie's second illegitimate child John Innes Sloss:
Date
2 Apr 1911
Location
Dalmellington
Description
John is 8 years old and living with his step-father Jimmy Meiklejohn age 30 and his cousin Marion Hendrie age 20. On the same block his Gran Margaret Sloss (Lees) age 67, uncle William Sloss age 33 and cousins Robert Hendrie age 12 and John Meiklejohn age
Sounds like a good match because Margaret Sloss nee Lees was Jessie's mum, and my aunt peggy was Margaret Lees Innes.
Wonder why the 2nd child was adopted locally whilst the 1st one was on the other side of Scotland - were attitudes becoming more progressive by then I wonder.
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Hi John
Saw the refence to John Innes Sloss on the 1911:
Description
John is 8 years old and living with his step-father Jimmy Meiklejohn age 30 and his cousin Marion Hendrie age 20. On the same block his Gran Margaret Sloss (Lees) age 67, uncle William Sloss age 33 and cousins Robert Hendrie age 12 and John Meiklejohn age
However, was confused about that as we know that Jessie Sloss died unmarried so wondered why John Innes Sloss was refered to as step son to a Jimmy Meiklejohn? Would imply that Jessie married him between 1902-4.
Maybe the term 'step-father' has been used in error?
Monica
PS: He is not down as step-son but nephew...likely James Meiklejohn married a Sloss girl. He shows as a widower. A John Meiklejohn, aged 2, is next door with Margaret Sloss Snr, showing as nephew (likely grandson?).
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Hi John
Saw the refence to John Innes Sloss on the 1911:
Description
John is 8 years old and living with his step-father Jimmy Meiklejohn age 30 and his cousin Marion Hendrie age 20. On the same block his Gran Margaret Sloss (Lees) age 67, uncle William Sloss age 33 and cousins Robert Hendrie age 12 and John Meiklejohn age
However, was confused about that as we know that Jessie Sloss died unmarried so wondered why John Innes Sloss was refered to as step son to a Jimmy Meiklejohn? Would imply that Jessie married him between 1902-4.
Maybe the term 'step-father' has been used in error?
Monica
PS: He is not down as step-son but nephew...likely James Meiklejohn married a Sloss girl. He shows as a widower. A John Meiklejohn, aged 2, is next door with Margaret Sloss Snr, showing as nephew (likely grandson?).
Good point, I copied the above from a family tree on ancestry, so they may have mis-typed it. I've run out of credits on Scotlands People so will check it out when I am up there.
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John, I would put down the marriage from earlier for a John Innes Sloss in 1941 on your 'look at' list in Edinburgh. Did he die in Scotland...not sure. There are only 7 entries for deaths for a John Sloss post 1941 (and the date of that marriage in Dalmellington). I put a wide age range for birth year - 1903 +/- 5yrs. None feel right :-\
Monica
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John, I would put down the marriage from earlier for a John Innes Sloss in 1941 on your 'look at' list in Edinburgh. Did he die in Scotland...not sure. There are only 7 entries for deaths for a John Sloss post 1941 (and the date of that marriage in Dalmellington). I put a wide age range for birth year - 1903 +/- 5yrs. None feel right :-\
Monica
I shall certainly put that on my must look at list!
I noticed the middle initial "R" on the 1911 census entry, so I did a free search on Scotlandspeople and there is a marriage in 1906 between a James R Meiklejohn and a Sloss in Ayr so your theory that he married a Sloss girl seems to be bang on, and another line to have a look at!
I wish there was a Scotland's people centre nearby :)
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Just an aside - I originally thought you were in Edinburgh from your name - but then names are not always what they seem are they ;)
Josey
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btw the marriage took place in Dalmellington, and I tried first names begining with "A" which matched, so then went through the alphabet until I found "Ag" and guessed Agnes which matched!
So in 1906 a James R Meiklejohn and an Agnes Sloss got married in Dalmellington.
If it is the same people, Agnes has dissapeared by 1911.
Interesting twists and turns!
Just an aside - I originally thought you were in Edinburgh from your name - but then names are not always what they seem are they
Ha ha I'm from Edinburgh but currently living in Liverpool!
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Ah ha.... an Agnes Meiklejohn nee Sloss died in 1909 (though not in Ayr). So it could tie in.
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Yes, looking at a tree on Ancestry, Jessie Sloss had a sister Jean "Agnes" Sloss who married James Meiklejohn and she died in Glasgow Royal Infirmary on 6th July 1909
So it looks like she adopted her sister's baby, John Innes Sloss.
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These are the census entries I was looking at... From 1881 we had Margaret b. Cambusnethan Lanarkshire c. 1841. I haven't checked as yet before to see how accurate this all was (but can ::)).
For 1891, I saw this entry. I think two households may have got jumbled up on the transcript I am looking at:
Margaret McCulloch 54, head b. Wishaw, Lanark
Janet Carrol 37, wife, wife b. Maxwelltown, Kirkcudbright
James Carrol 10 Months
Address: 16 Langlands St, Kilmarnock
This entry is the only Margaret McCulloch showing in Ayrshire born Lanarkshire 1837 +/- 5rs.
For 1901:
...I am struggling now...did I dream it yesterday :-\
Monica
Ahhhh....I didn't dream it after all, I think! This was the 1901 census entry I saw in the last couple of days with Margaret Steel under her maiden name (given she was long separated, not surprising really):
Robt Miller 61, General Labourer b. Kilmaurs, ayrsh
Margt Steel 64 housekeeper b. Wishaw
Address: 14 Dean Lane, Kilmarnock
Monica ;)
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Just tidying up some other bits for now....
I think John Innes Sloss and wife Agnes ended up in Australia!
There are electoral roll entries for a John Innes Sloss and an Agnes Sloss, both living at 25 Collins Street, Toowoomba North, Darling Downs, Queensland for 1963.
In 1968, at 178 Holberton Street, Toowoomba West.
Monica
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Just tidying up some other bits for now....
I think John Innes Sloss and wife Agnes ended up in Australia!
There are electoral roll entries for a John Innes Sloss and an Agnes Sloss, both living at 25 Collins Street, Toowoomba North, Darling Downs, Queensland for 1963.
In 1968, at 178 Holberton Street, Toowoomba West.
Monica
Now that is a distinctive possibility, my mum and dad moved to Australia in the early 60s on the £10 pomme deal or whatever they called it (they returned a year or so later) and I remember her talking of certainly a Jescella (don't know if that's how you spell it) sloss and possibly others. If she's up for talking about it will do some digging!
Something else looks a little strange ...
In the 1911 census you've got at Knowehead, Dalmellington
James R. Meiklejohn (Head) 30
Marion Hendrie (Neice) 20
John Sloss (Nephew) 8
and next door
Margaret L Sloss (nee Lees) 67
William Sloss (Son) 33
Robert S Hendrie (Nephew) 12
John L Meiklejohn (Nephew) 2
Ok so James R. Meiklejohn was married to Jessie Sloss's sister Jane "Agnes" Sloss who died in 1909. Next door is Jessie and Jane's mum Margaret Sloss nee Lees (Robert Sloss died in 1896).
What strikes me as strange is, both households have taken in children that aren't their own. But if James R MeikleJohn has taken in a Hendrie and a Sloss then why didn't he take in John L Meiklejohn since he is in his bloodline?
Of course could simply be that if he was a working man, looking after an 8 year old (John Sloss) may be more practical than looking after a 2 year old (and presumable Margaret Lees was retired by then). That said, Marion Hendrie was 20 and didn't have a listed occupation, so wouldn't it be likely that she would have looked after the baby in those days?
Or has he knocked up his "neice" and his mother in law taken in the baby to cover up the scandal?
Perhaps I'm just getting carried away! Certainly some interesting lines of enquiry to check out at Scotland's people!
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Or thinking about it, since John L Meiklejohn was 2 on the 1911 census and therefore was born around 1909 and Jean "Agnes" Sloss died in 1909, perhaps she died in childbirth, and as I previously suggested the retired mother in law next door was better placed to look after a small baby?
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I always think that the census is just snap shot of one night! If it is anything like my household some weekends, I have a few extra children here always sleeping over who are friends of my children, or my nephews ;D
John Innes Sloss was older, John Meiklejohn was much younger, maybe no more complicated than that on the night, given they lived next door to each other ::)
Monica
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I always think that the census is just snap shot of one night! If it is anything like my household some weekends, I have a few extra children here always sleeping over who are friends of my children, or my nephews ;D
John Innes Sloss was older, John Meiklejohn was much younger, maybe no more complicated than that on the night, given they lived next door to each other ::)
Monica
Yeah I think you are right, I'm starting to read too much into things!
Nevertheless, I've got a few certificates to check out which may clarify a things a bit when I'm in the centre.
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John, not sure how much time you have in Edinburgh. Perhaps consider popping into the National Archives of Scotland to check out some Wills ::) Thinking here of William McCulloch and John Innes. See www.nas.gov.uk/guides/wills.asp
Monica
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John, not sure how much time you have in Edinburgh. Perhaps consider popping into the National Archives of Scotland to check out some Wills ::) Thinking here of William McCulloch and John Innes. See www.nas.gov.uk/guides/wills.asp
Monica
Good idea! It's looking like quite a busy week, but if I get time I'll pop in to there, and perhaps to the library to have a look at the Scotsman archives.
Curiosity got the better of me and I got some more Scotland's people credits (I should really wait until I am up there!)
John Leith Meiklejohn born in Ayrshire in October 1908 (which would make him 2 on the 1911 census) is down on his birth certificate as illegitimate, and his mother is down as Marion Meiklejohn - Domestic Servant.
So was Marion Hendrie really his neice? Or is it pure coincidence?
There must have been something in the water in Ayr in those days! ;)
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Just a quick update - I didn't find out a lot more in Edinburgh to be honest. I had so many things to look up I ran out of time.
However, I'm speaking to a couple of other people who are researching the Sloss line so I'll report back if I hear anything!
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John, we enjoy your research, you have intersting family lines ;)
Post back when you can, with anything new.
Monica
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John - (*)......
I'm new to all of this - so looking for advice on how to proceed with this.
My goal is to try to find any living relatives of my dad as he knew nothing of his dad's parent(s) since he was illegitimate, but through a family member who does family trees we now know (*) married my half great uncle.
Do we discuss any connections here or is there a Personal Message facility - which I can't see - also new to Rootschat!
Moderator Comment: See post below.
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Hi Johnxhamilton
Welcome to RootsChat :)
These events that you mentioned are too recent for RootsChat, where we try to protect living people's privacy and identity.
As you mention, best to communicate via private messages.
If you post a couple of times more here (acknowledge my message and one more), your PM service will be activated. To send John a PM, just click on the small green scroll under his username on the l/h side and this will take you straight there (works very much like all email services with an in/outbox etc.).
Monica
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Thanks for the clarification - replying to get my credit 'up' to enable PMs. Thanks again - john
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Hi John
One more and you are good to go on the PMs ;)
Monica
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Here's my 2nd reply! Thanks