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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Prue on Wednesday 03 October 12 16:23 BST (UK)

Title: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Prue on Wednesday 03 October 12 16:23 BST (UK)
 I am searching for any information about Frederick Bull and his children, John born 1886,
Alma born 1889 and Ada in 1890. All born in Newcastle Australia. Frederick died in 1914 and I think he was living at Reid Street Newcastle.I would appeciate any help or advice.
Thanks,
Prue
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 03 October 12 19:53 BST (UK)
Hi Prue,


Alma Married James E Illes in 1920 at Merewether Ncle ref# 7726/1920
Ada married Leslie E William in 1922 at Mudgee NSW ref # 4342/1922
John F Married Elizabeth Gilchrist in 1915 at Sydney ref # 8527/1915

Alice J Bull was born 1892 Newcastle ref # 25331/1892

Neil 
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 20:41 BST (UK)
I see a Frederick Henry Bull d 1914 and many of the Bull family are buried at Sandgate Cemetery
http://www.sandgatecemetery.org.au/

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 03 October 12 21:04 BST (UK)
The whole family seems stuck on the letter "A" for first names John seems a bit of an exception ::)

I think there could be more children to Frederick than I have down, but my puter is mucking me around and I gave up. Perhaps Ros could have a look?

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 21:24 BST (UK)
There is a death of an Ada Bull with parents Frederick and Mary A in 1891 in Hamilton  http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au


reg 7119/1891

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 21:29 BST (UK)
hi Neil,
  I had a look and can't see any more births to Frederick and Mary around the Newcastle area

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 21:47 BST (UK)
On naa.gov.au there is a service  record for John Felix Bull born Newcastle who served in WW1

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au

He was a bootmaker and apprenticed to his father Frederick Bull a bootmaker in Newcastle. 

regards,
   Ros

adding : can read the 112(!) page digitised record
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 21:57 BST (UK)
From digitised record he changes his NOK from his father Frederick to his wife Mary Helen Bull at an address in London

Lots of info here - takes some reading ...

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 22:01 BST (UK)
John Felix Bull died 17 10 1919.  How very sad,

Summary http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=38409

I'm having doubts now whether I have the correct John F Bull especially after looking at the summary,

 Back to reading the record ...

It has marriage cert extract  included (page 27) to Mary Helen Hampton.  Here it says his father is Frederick Henry Bull (deceased), coal trimmer and that he (John) is a hair dresser.  15-10-1917

Letter from sister Mrs H Waterhouse ?? (page 28)

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 03 October 12 22:31 BST (UK)
That death for Ada Bull in 1891 is a bit perplexing as ther is another for a second Ada Bull same area same year different parents?

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 03 October 12 22:37 BST (UK)
Seems I had the wrong Ada down as marrying in Mudgee that one was born Cassilis NSW. So my mistake. The two that died were both in Newcastle to different parents one of Which was Frederick and Mary.

So Sorry

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 22:43 BST (UK)
Military Funeral notice for John Felix Bull of NSW to be buried at the Roman Catholic Cemetery, Fremantle WA (military funeral)

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27665307

And Private John F Bull to be buried at Rookwood Cemetery
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article15858312

 ??? 

regards,
   Ros

Adding : reading the service record again I find that he died at Fremantle at No 8 Australian General Hospital
and his death index on WA BDM
BULL John F  1919 Fremantle reg 353
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 04 October 12 00:30 BST (UK)
The marriage of Frederick Henry BULL and Mary Ann REGAN.  Frederick born in Kent, Mary is a widow.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2606637456/in/set-72157605785759029

Note: This is the last page of the register. Marriage details that would have been on the next page have been lost.

No!!!!!!   :'(   ....but hopefully not until after the details were sent to the registry.


This baptism matches parent details for the 1914 death:

   
Name:   Frederick Henry BULL
Baptism/christening date:   04 Apr 1858
Baptism/christening place:   St. George, Gravesend, Kent, England
Father's name:   Isaac BULL
Mother's name:   Agnes Mary
indexing project (batch) number:   I02210-9
system origin:   England-EASy
source film number:   992466

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKCZ-KWY

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Thursday 04 October 12 00:53 BST (UK)
If you scroll through the census for Isaac you will find varying birthplaces for him and a variation in his wife's name's Variously Agnus, Agnus Ann, Mary. ???

The earliest 1841 has him born Derbyshire?
They also have lost various children along the way sadly, as many family did.

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 04 October 12 01:03 BST (UK)
Neil, I am seeing him always born in Rotherhithe, Surrey  ???

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Thursday 04 October 12 01:04 BST (UK)
Frederick seems to have lived at Marks Point in Reid Street near lake Macquarie south of Newcastle. Other members lived in the South in Lake Macquarie Council area such as Belmont and Charlestown.

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Thursday 04 October 12 01:14 BST (UK)
My census transcription could be wrong? I just had a look at the original and it could be Isaac Bale not Bull?  I cannot make it out properly? IE the 1841 it has him single and living at what could only be termed a very English address.

Brookley Medow
Sutton On The Hill
Burton Upon Trent, Tutbury
Derbyshire

Love it ;D

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Thursday 04 October 12 01:37 BST (UK)
Hi

My hairdresser is married to Bull who lives at Belmont, she is not at work today, will ring friday and ask her if it is the same family.

Different Family, not related.
Muss
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Thursday 04 October 12 03:17 BST (UK)
Hi
 Wife  of Frederick and her daughter.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14541239?searchTerm=mary ann bull&searchLimits=

Muss
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Neil Todd on Thursday 04 October 12 03:41 BST (UK)
 :o :o Shouldn't that be wife of frederick and her mother muss. ???

Neil
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Thursday 04 October 12 03:51 BST (UK)
Outcome of Muss's find.  Yes Neil,  Catherine Regan was Mary Ann Bull's mother as it happens.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article14534345
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Thursday 04 October 12 03:56 BST (UK)
Hi

Thank you, been in the hot sun today.
Did Mary have any children to her first husband ? maybe a daughter who married the Waterhouse.

Muss
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Thursday 04 October 12 04:22 BST (UK)
hi Muss  :)
 
   Elsewhere in the confusing(!) war record it said that Mrs H Waterhouse was the eldest sister of John, so I did look for a Regan-Waterhouse marriage.

  I have been unable to find a Regan-Waterhouse marriage or a Bull-Waterhouse marriage in NSW.  The closest I could find was a marriage for an Alma Brown to a Harry Waterhouse in 1909 but could not find Alma Bull marrying a Brown.

  Perhaps it is too hot to think or search  ;D

 adding :  Of course from your find we now know that Regan was Mary's maiden name and not her first-married name so ....    Well she may have married William Gainer except I can't find a death for him prior to her remarriage .  Will check other possibilities

regards,
   Ros

Adding : There is a death of a Harry Waterhouse in Newcastle in 1948 who is dear husband of Alice  http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18070852  ... a possiblity for Mrs H Waterhouse ..?
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Thursday 04 October 12 07:34 BST (UK)
Hi

As posted by Dundee Mary was a widow  ( or has the sun messed my brain)

Muss
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Thursday 04 October 12 07:54 BST (UK)
Yes Muss but if Catherine Regan was her mother (from your find :) ) then her first-married name was probably different (not necessarily I suppose). 
Or I guess Catherine Regan could have been her mother-in-law, not her mother, although article didn't say that.
Or perhaps Mary said she was a widow as she had a child ...?

Yes I think the sun is befuddling my brain too.  ;D

Incidentally I reread John F Bull's war record and found that he died in Fremantle WA and amended my earlier post about the 2 funeral notices and added WA BDM death index.  How sad that he returned to Australia but didn't get back to his family in NSW.

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: Prue on Thursday 04 October 12 08:36 BST (UK)
Thank you all for searching and helping with Frederick Bull. I shall study all the answers. You were correctin finding Frederick born in Gravesend kent and his father Isaac Bull did come from Rotherhithe so its all looking good.
Many thanks for your help

Cheers!
Prue.
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Friday 05 October 12 23:16 BST (UK)
This may be Mary Anne's death notice in 1926

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16296617

JONES.-June 3, at her résidence, 85 Grafton Street, Woollahra,  Mary Anne Jones, dearly loved mother of
Laura (Mrs. W. Farthing), Alma (Mrs. H. Waterhouse) and Alice (Mrs. C. Foster), aged 77 years.

There are a few gaps to fill in ....  ;D

It is Laura BROWN who married William R Farthing 1915
and Alma BROWN who married Harry Waterhouse in 1909
And  Alice M  Bull who married Charles Foster in 1912
I haven't found a remarriage for Mary Ann Bull/Brown to a Jones ... 

regards,
   Ros
(nice cool day Muss  :)
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Saturday 06 October 12 01:00 BST (UK)
Hi
Did the marriages take place in Victoria ?  When did mary Anne marry the Jones ?

Nice and cool and the fires are out.


Muss
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: judb on Saturday 06 October 12 01:17 BST (UK)
The funeral notices for Mrs Mary Anne JONES are on p9 of the same SMH.  She is buried at Rookwood Roman Catholic Cemetery.  There is mention of the families but no further information than that in the Death Notice.

NSW 1926 #9633   
Mary A JONES, parents: JAMES, CATHERINE, registered WAVERLEY

Judith
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: rosball on Saturday 06 October 12 01:53 BST (UK)
Possible death for Alice M Foster  in 1930 which gives parents as Frederick and Mary A  in Newtown  reg 15361/1930

I haven't found death notice but here is return thanks notice - Oct  13 1930
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16722069

Mr C FOSTER and FAMILY wish to return THANKS to all kind relatives and friends for
expressions of sympathy received in their sad bereavement of beloved wife and mother, Alice Mabel

regards,
  Ros


Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Saturday 06 October 12 04:22 BST (UK)
Hi
Death of William Farthing

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17949827?searchTerm= farthing laura&searchLimits=l-title=35

Muss
Title: Re: Frederick Bull & family
Post by: muss on Saturday 06 October 12 05:27 BST (UK)
Hi

Children of Laura and William

William 1901, Charles 1904, Thomas 1905, Wallace 1906.

Charles and Wallace are also reg under Brown.

Muss