RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: annabellamariamaud on Wednesday 03 October 12 02:32 BST (UK)

Title: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Wednesday 03 October 12 02:32 BST (UK)
I have been researching the family of Charles Henry Palmer (1872–1954) and Nelly Parry (1876–1952), married 1897. Lived in the Oakley, Malvern, Hawthorn area of Melbourne

I have found several children"

"Wfred" is my primary question, but if you stumble across anything which helps with the bold bits regarding the others, I'd be grateful of all input.

Many thanks,
Anna
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 02:43 BST (UK)
here is death notice for Reuben which says he died after a long illness and lists his siblings - Claude, Ruth, Edith and Harry
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11750011

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: Raylen on Wednesday 03 October 12 03:45 BST (UK)
Hi Anna,


Birth

PALMER
Wfred
1916  Malvern
Father:Chas Hy   Mother: Nellie Parry
Reg#31259


Raylen
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Wednesday 03 October 12 04:46 BST (UK)
Wow! You guys/girls are absolutely amazing! You have no idea how many placed I'd scoured before asking here. And here I was thinking I was getting pretty clever, too!

I've found the Funeral Notice for Reuben, but still can't find the birth record for Wfred. Is it possible for you to give me a link? I do have some money available on Victoria BMD, but had to stop as I was losing money hand over fist. It's ok if you can't.

 :D
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 05:17 BST (UK)
There is a death for a Claude Henry Palmer in 1951 in east melbourne with father Harry Chas Palmer and mother Nellie Polly Ewing  ???

birth abt 1898

reg 13183

regards,
  Ros

(using the reg no which Raylen gave you should help you find it in Vic BDM)
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 05:22 BST (UK)
And here are death notices for Claude
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23088351
which lists some family members
   

he is brother of Edith and brother-in-law of Harold,
brother of Harry and brother-in-law of Lesley,
and brother of Ruth and of Reuben (deceased)

regards,
Ros
   

and funeral notice http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23088151
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 October 12 05:53 BST (UK)
Quote
Edith Minnie Palmer (1907 – ...) - no record after 1937 Census at 14 Moorehouse Street, Malvern, where she is listed as a clerk. No confirmable marriage record, further Census listings, or death record
You are referring to an electoral roll not census.

Marriage
PALMER Edith Minnie
THORNTON Harold Samuel
1939  Reg# 12982


Quote
Reuben Charles (1900–1935) -can't find a marriage record (if there is one), or cause of death

His death certificate would detail his cause of death.  Images of certs can be purchased online AUD$20 and immediately downloaded from
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

PALMER Reuben Charles
Father Palmer Charles Henry  Mother Nellie  PARRY
At Kew  34 years  Reg#6939

Cando



Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 October 12 05:56 BST (UK)
Birth
PALMER Henry
Father Charles  Mother Helen PARRY
At Prahran  1897  Reg#30626


Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: Raylen on Wednesday 03 October 12 05:56 BST (UK)
I've found the Funeral Notice for Reuben, but still can't find the birth record for Wfred. Is it possible for you to give me a link? I do have some money available on Victoria BMD, but had to stop as I was losing money hand over fist. It's ok if you can't. :D

As the Vic BDM Historical Index only goes up to 1911, you need to apply for a birth certificate.  
There are several ways to do that. Details on this link.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0rhu/

And here are death notices for Claude
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23088351
which lists some family members  
he is brother of Edith and brother-in-law of Harold,
brother of Harry and brother-in-law of Lesley,
and brother of Ruth and of Reuben (deceased)
regards,Ros   

PALMER Edith Minnie
married 1939
THORNTON Harold Saml
Reg#12982

Death
THORNTON Harold Samuel
1971 Heidelberg age 65 years
Father: Albert Ernes       Mother: Joan Carle
Reg#18303

Can't see a death for Edith Minnie up to 1985.


Raylen

 :-[ Marriage already posted by cando
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 October 12 06:01 BST (UK)
There is a death for a Claude Henry Palmer in 1951 in east melbourne with father Harry Chas Palmer and mother Nellie Polly Ewing  ???

birth abt 1898

reg 13183

regards,
  Ros

(using the reg no which Raylen gave you should help you find it in Vic BDM)

I don't think this is the same family.  I can only see a birth in 1897 and 1900 around that time.

Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 October 12 06:06 BST (UK)
Perhaps I have mistinterpreted the info on the Vic Registry website...I didn't think you could purchase a birth certificate for a birth within the last 100 years even if the person was deceased.

Restrictions to access
Under the Victorian Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages' Access Policy, the following restrictions apply:

    *birth and change of name records are restricted from public access for 100 years or until the person has passed away, whichever is the later;
    *marriage records are restricted from public access for 60 years or until both parties to the marriage have passed away, whichever is the later;
    *death records are restricted from public access for 10 years.


Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 06:17 BST (UK)
There is a death for a Claude Henry Palmer in 1951 in east melbourne with father Harry Chas Palmer and mother Nellie Polly Ewing  ???

birth abt 1898

reg 13183


I don't think this is the same family.  I can only see a birth in 1897 and 1900 around that time.

Cando

The death notice (which seems to correspond) shows the same siblings Cando.  :)

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 03 October 12 06:54 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23088151?searchTerm="claude henry  palmer"&searchLimits=

This is another death notice for CLAUDE HENRY PALMER

It mentions his wife ELSIE MAY whom he married in 1922  #10024.
  Formerly PERRIN

It also mentions two sons by name.

CLAUDE and ELSIE, cremated at Springvale, are in the same location there . She died in October1984

Sue

Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 03 October 12 07:00 BST (UK)
Adding for your interest, the sons were twins ;D and both joined the ww2 forces.

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=R&veteranId=957191
and
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=R&veteranId=957212

Sue
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 08:21 BST (UK)
Well-found Sue  :)  How did I miss that other death notice ?

here is birth announcement for twins - but very hard to read


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4195338

regards,
   Ros
(edited to fix link)
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 03 October 12 08:29 BST (UK)
Hi Ros,
It is an odd kind of Trove link. ???

Maybe the site is having troubles again.

Sue
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 08:45 BST (UK)
I hope not - I was suffering withdrawal symptoms last time trove was down  ;D  Ah I fixed the link - not sure what I did before.

Can you see a marriage for Henry/Harry and Lesley?

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 03 October 12 09:11 BST (UK)
EDITH MINNIE THORNTON died in July 1987 and her ashes were scattered at Fawkner Memorial Park.

Also memorialised there is HAROLD SAMUEL THORNTON who died in 1971.

http://www.fcmp.com.au/deceasedsearch.asp


The twin sons of CLAUDE PALMER  are also  I think deceased.


Their names show at Springvale though the dates of birth are not quite right on the listings.
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php

Sue
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 03 October 12 09:20 BST (UK)
I hope not - I was suffering withdrawal symptoms last time trove was down  ;D  Ah I fixed the link - not sure what I did before.

Can you see a marriage for Henry/Harry and Lesley?

cheers,
   Ros

Maybe this


 PALMER Harry George
NICHOLAS Lesley Lacy
Year 1938
Registration  579

Sue

Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Wednesday 03 October 12 12:36 BST (UK)
Goodness! I'm quite overwhelmed. I'm slowly working my way through everyone's hints, little bit by little bit. I STILL cannot find the record that Raylen first put me onto, with the Reg# 31259 - when I use that registration no. only for the search form on Vic BMD, it takes me to a page which doesn't have any Palmers on it, nor any Wfreds, and it is a single page. Can I ask where you found the record, Raylen?

The info about Claude & Elsie's twin sons was really interesting - I've traced both of them through as far as the 1980 Electoral Rolls (sorry Cando - I've spent most of my Ancestry time so far on the UK side of the family, so my fingers almost automatically type 'Census' - I do know better, and will try to get my facts correct next time). It doesn't seem that Kenneth married or had children, but Robert married a Lois Lillian (haven't found her maiden name yet) and moved to Queensland - they don't seem to have had any children.

Very appreciatively,
Anna
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: cando on Wednesday 03 October 12 23:30 BST (UK)
Information re access to birth in Victoria is on reply#10.

You cannot access birth information in 1916.

Many of us have a resource with births to 1920 which was published prior the Privacy Act and access restrictions the births within the last 100 years.

If you were searching correctly ie Surname, given name, year and registration number, you would get a negative result for that registration number in 1916 as that information is not available on the online indexes.

The registration number must be attached to the year of the event.  An identical number may appear in many other years.

Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 03 October 12 23:53 BST (UK)
Sorry that was my fault  :( - I just added that bit about reg number from Raylene helping to find birth record without realising that birth was in 1916 and Vic birth records online do not include those births.

The different states have different cut-off points (that's my excuse  :-[ ) 

Sorry for causing confusion and angst.

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Wednesday 03 October 12 23:58 BST (UK)
Ah, thank you for that. I had read your previous posts about birth records, but couldn't figure out how there could be information provided by others here, that I couldn't acccess. I'm a bit slow, but I do catch on eventually. Thanks for being patient with me.  ::)
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Thursday 04 October 12 00:03 BST (UK)
No worries, Ros - I appreciate all the help and info. I'd got pretty slick with finding UK stuff, but the Australian formats are very different, and it's quite a shift in thinking, really. This is probably the first branch that I've really got stuck into as far as Aussie records are concerned - and sometimes you read so much background info that it all just becomes a blurr - there's nothing quite like getting stuck in and learning as you go. I am truly appreciative all all the help.  :-*
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 04 October 12 00:11 BST (UK)
The info about Claude & Elsie's twin sons was really interesting - I've traced both of them through as far as the 1980 Electoral Rolls -  . It doesn't seem that Kenneth married or had children,   -  Very appreciatively,
Anna

Here are the newspaper Engagement notices for the twin sons.

Robert
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23062562?searchTerm="mrs c h palmer"&searchLimits=l-title=13

Kenneth

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23024553?searchTerm="mrs c h palmer"&searchLimits=l-title=13

From them you will get the maiden names you are seeking.

Both theses marriages took place and KENNETH and his wife appear on the E Roll to 1980.  He was an accountant in Aspendale. Vic in 1980.

Sue
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: cando on Thursday 04 October 12 01:28 BST (UK)
Anna the Australian Resources board has lots of excellent links for Australia and each State individually.  BDM's, immigration, cemeteries, war service records, etc. 

The National library has digitized newspapers online to c1954 with some publications a little later.  I can't do live links at the moment but google Trove. 

Cando

Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 04 October 12 03:40 BST (UK)
Hi
WFRED PALMER and HARRY GEORGE PALMER were twins.

Perhaps this was carried through to CLAUDE with his own two boys ;D

PALMER Harry Geo (elder Twin)
Father Chas Hy
Mother Nellie PARRY
Birth Place MVERN
Year 1916
Reg. Number 31258

PALMER Wfred
Father Chas Hy
Mother Nellie PARRY
Birth Place MVERN
Year 1916
Reg. Number 31259

Sue

Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Thursday 04 October 12 03:45 BST (UK)
Thanks Cando - I have had a bit of a poke around, and I've been looking at Trove, DeceasedSearch, etc., for a while - I just haven't quite got them "figured out" yet - you know how your brain connects instantly with how one site works, then takes a little while to understand the thinking of another? I'll get there. Promise.
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: annabellamariamaud on Thursday 04 October 12 03:49 BST (UK)
Ah, Sparrett you are finding some utter gems! I'd wondered if Wfred & Harry were twins last night when I shut down, as Harry's death records indicated a birth date of 1917, which seemed a little too close to 1916 to rule out the possibility of them being twins. I'm about to get back into it for the day now, so you've certainly given me heaps to play with! Can I ask, did you find the twin info on a publicly available site, or on older records, as Cando was explaining to me earlier?
Title: Re: Victoria Birth - Winifred PALMER & Siblings
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 04 October 12 04:03 BST (UK)
No,

The birth finding is not publically available.

You have seen the death of WFRED which is available, but the births, also in 1916, are not.

Sue