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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: JEANJAXX on Tuesday 02 October 12 21:10 BST (UK)
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Hi,Im looking for help and advise on trying to find a friends grandfather, his name was Harold George Baker, from Lewisham, his last known address was 121 Sunderland Rd, Forest Hill, he was born around 1911, we know that he did marry a Elizabeth Kelly in 1936, he was in the army and never went back to his wife who left with a young son, although he did try to keep in touch with his son by writting, although his son never got the letters untill a few years ago when they were found in his mothers belongings. What we really want to know is, did Harold remarry? And did he have other children ? Where do we look? i have researched family for myself from scottish records, trying english but they dont seem to give you the same information, like parents names on birth certificates etc, Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Jeanx
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Hi
Why have you researched the family via scottish records?
What other info do you have? Might make it easier for others and save others looking for info you already have.
Ray
Your previous post . . . . .
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Hi, Hope someone will be able to help me, im researching for a friend whos grandfather was called Harold George Baker, he was born around 1911, i have information that he was in the army about 1943-1948 , army details are ,t/92348.pte Baker HG523 Armoured Brigade Coy, RASC W/S Platoon CMF. Can anyone desipher what this means and is there anyway i could get his records?
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I think Jean means she has researched her own family in Scottish records and therefore isn't used to English ones ?
Jean, if you buy the wedding cert of Harold and elizabeth, it will give you the names and occupations of both their fathers.
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Hi AlpineCottage
You have highlighted the problem, thank you.
You assume "Jean"'s family, I assumed the Baker family, I just wanted confirmation that (I/you) was wrong.
How was his dob rrived at?
How was the Kelly marriage arrived at?
Before people invest time , what is known?
I'd love to help . . . . .
Cheers.
Ray
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The marriage took place in Lewisham in Dec Quarter 1936 ( Ref; Lewisham 1d 1987). The brides name was Eliza Kelly (on the marriage index). The cert will cost £9.25 from GRO at Southport - google it to order online.
There is a possible birth for Harold, Harold G Baker, also in Lewisham in Mar Quarter 1912, mother's maiden name Maggett. (ref Lewisham 1d 2224). Can't see any Baker/Maggett marriages though, but you could try playing with the spelling of Maggett as it's a really unusual surname. Try on Freebmd www.freebmd.org.uk - which is where I also found the marriage details.
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Hi
There is a Harold George Baker on the Lewisham electoral roll in Sunderland Road in 1937. The other Bakers listed with him, he is listed last, are Elizabeth and Frederick Baker.
A Harold George Baker is listed on the Lewisham electoral roll between 1933-1937 at two addresses..
1933 23 Ravensbourne Park Crescent with Elizabeth Baker
1934 same address with Elizabeth Baker
1936 121 Sunderland Road with Elizabeth Baker and Frederick - Elizabeth's name appears first followed by Harold George.
1937 same address
If he died from 1969 onwards then the date if birth is given with the death registration (if known by the person registering the death) commencing half way through the year. The middle initial of second names is also from then given in full. With a common name like Harold George Baker that would allow for the elimination of others born around 1911.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda
You are also highlighting assumptions by us, not on facts passed to us.
Regards
Ray
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Hi Jean
What we really want to know is, did Harold remarry? And did he have other children
That's a toughie I'm afraid - you would need to check if there was ever a divorce from Elizabeth and then look for a marriage sometime after the decree absolute
If there was no divorce - he would only be able to legally marry after her death
If he just co-habited - it would be virtually impossible to find any more info re: second family etc
although he did try to keep in touch with his son by writting, although his son never got the letters untill a few years ago when they were found in his mothers belongings.
Was there any address on the letters to indicate the area in which he was living
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Hi
The electoral rolls confirm he was at the address with his wife until 1937 but also with someone called Frederick Baker who must be over 21 to be on the electoral rolls.
Obtaining a birth certificate if that was possible, may help find a death certificate. As Carol says this is a toughie. Without a proven death certificate the Ministry of Defence will not release his Second World War army records which may give further information, such as next of kin and a later address which might help in picking him up on a later electoral roll and therefore anyone living with him.
It is costly to request a search for a decree absolute
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Marriagesandcivilpartnerships/DG_175718
If there were a divorce Elizabeth would have known about it as probably would have other members of her family.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Guys , Thankyou so much for all your advise on here! The only reason i mentioned scottish records is because of my family being scottish i had no need to look at any english sites before, i may be going about the whole search in the wrong way but i dont find the english sites very helpfull at all, i bought some credits but seem to be wasting them on information that is already available on the site without paying, its probably me doing it wrong lol! Anyway, will keep trying! Again many thanks !
Jeanx
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Hi Jean
Re: my question above
Was there any address on the letters to indicate the area in which he was living
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Hi Carol, sorry thats me just getting back to you, but computor not been working , Harold Bakers last known address was 121 Sunderland Rd, Forest Hill, he lived at this address with his wife Elizabeth Kelly, his small son and his father Frederick Kelly.
Elizabeth left him and took the child to live with her mother, so as far as we know Harold was in the army untill 1948, but think this address was still classed as his home address, if you could help me at all i would be very grateful, or even advise what sites to use as i am getting nowhere fast:((
Thanks Jeanx
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Jean, You said earlier that Harold had tried to keep in touch with his son by writing. Are there no clues as to where he was and what he was doing in the letters? When was the last letter written?
There are several Harold G marriages in England and Wales after 1948, but without buying all the certs and checking the age of the groom, his father's name and his occupation (at £9 + each) you wouldn't know if one was even possibly your man. In addition, he may have married overseas or in Scotland - different sets of records.
If it was my problem, I would start by noting down every single fact known about Harold. Then I would research Harold's birth and his parents. Try to find his birth cert and then his parent's marriage cert. Try to find out when Frederick died, where is he buried, did he leave a will, is Harold mentioned in it, where is Frederick buried, is Harold buried with him, what about Harold's mother, when and where did she die, is Harold buried with her, did Harold have siblings, one may have had an unusual name and be easier to trace and so on. You won't find a web-site with all the info on and this quest will involve a lot of detective work and probably some expense.
It is notoriously difficult to track people in 20th century because 1911 census is the last one available and people's mobility was so much greater after 2 world wars. There is a remote chance that a letter to the local Lewisham newspaper may produce some clues :-\
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Hi
Sunderland Rd was the matrimonial home address. If Harold wrote to his son to keep in touch - you would assume he would include an address in the letter to enable his son to contact him
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Thanks guys, the friend i am helping has gone on holiday for two weeks, so will have to wait for her return to ask about address on letters to her father, but thanks again for all your help! watch this space lol!
Jeanx
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Hi Guys, Still on this Baker search, i think i have the right birth certificate now for Harold George Baker, mother Elizabeth Maggett, father Frederick Edward Baker who was a stone mason, all ties in with my friend saying he was a monumental stone engraver, But im getting nowhere with a marriage certificate for them. I have tried different spellings etc , can anyone help?
Thanks
Jeanx
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could this be the marriage ?
March quarter 1914 - Lewisham 1d 1308
BAKER Frederick E
MACKETT Elizabeth
Tony
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Hi, since i was last on , i have found Harold George Baker born January 2nd 1912 in Lewisham, i also have his death certifate, he died March 2003 in Andover Hampshire, i can see from his death certificate that he had remarried and that his widow is called Doris Rosemary Seymour, now this is the bit im stuck on yet again! Why cant i find a marriage certificate for them? i have checked both English and Scottish records, where will i get access to Welsh and Irish? Can any one help me?
Thanks :(
Jeanjaxx
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Oops, have just realised that this lady may still be alive........b 1922.
I read the previous message that she had died in 2003,but now realise that was Harold :-[
So have PM'd his 1966 London marriage info to Jean.
Carol