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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: Chalfont on Tuesday 02 October 12 15:34 BST (UK)
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Can anyone please help me find her burial location? She and her husband James Garden lived in Cornhill Village, Banffshire. A family photograph of her grave contains the folowing inscription:
Erected by
JAMES GARDEN
CORNHILL
IN LOVING MEMORY OF HIS WIFE
MARY H. STEVENSON
WHO DIED 2nd JUNE 1926
AGED 33 YEARS
The land is flat and open so it is not Ordiquhill Parish Church graveyard. On visiting Cornhill in 2011, I was told there was no burial ground at the church in the village. Was this correct?
Thank you. (from Ontario, Canada)
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Hi Chalfont
Could you perhaps post the photo here? It might help people to recognise the burial ground (hopefully!).
Monica :)
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Thanks Monica. I would have attached the photo earlier but couldn't find it! (I've been away from this line for a long time.) Give me a couple of days and I should be able to dig it out.
Thanks for your interest.
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As promised. The inscription is transcribed in my first post. Perhaps the picture will provide someone with a clue about the location.
Mary died of tuberculosis in Chalmers Hospital, Aberdeen, so there's a possibility that it is a city graveyard. (But it looks deserted of other graves.) Other possibilities: Cornhill (If there's a graveyard there - I don't think it's Ordiquhill): Portsoy (where she was born), or Banff (where they were married in 1924).
Their wedding certificate lists them both as residents of Ordiquhill parish - Mary in the village of Cornhill, James at "Leathermills."
Thanks for you interest.
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Have you seen Mary's actual death certificate? Apart from stating where she died (Chalmers Hospital, Aberdeen), did it also include her usual residence? Just trying to get down any more info that may help others with local knowledge.
Monica :)
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Yes, I have a copy of her death certificate. It states her usual residence as Village of Cornhill. A puzzler.
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Dear Chalfont, I have done a lot of work on the Stevenson of Deskford, Fordyce and Marnoch, Banffshire so I have been in some of the Churchyards around there so I can help you rule out some of them from the photograph. It is NOT Banff as it is on a moderate brae near the School in Banff. That is a busy Cemetary and some of my wife's relatives are buried there. It is NOT at Fordyce (either of them (two)!) more of her relatives there or at Deskford around the Old Church or at Ordiquhill as it is also around the Church as I remember it. It is NOT Marnoch I (more relatives there!) and I do not think that it looks like Marnoch II. The Portsoy one is not far from the sea so the picture does not appear to promote that one. It is a lovely Headstone and there must be a better way of finding it. Perhaps a search of the Aberdeen Press & Journal or the Banff Paper around 2 June 1926 would yield a gem or two. The space running out so best wishes for now, nw_whiskers
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Chalmers Hospital is in Banff, not Aberdeen,
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Dear Chalfont, The Banffshire Journal around 2nd June 1926 looks a good bet for where she is buried. If I were in past the Aberdeen Family History Society, 164 King Street, Aberdeen I would look it up for you but that could be Feb or March time frame. The tapes are on the LHS just past the reception desk so that would be easy.
I see Nethermills on the map just south of Cornhill but no Leathermills.
The Cemetry at Fordyce is a logical choice from Cornhill but your picture kind of rules it out or is very deceptive.
If the Hospital was in Banff as somebody else has posted then the Cemetry could be somewhere outside Banff. It does NOT look like the Cemetry at the School in Banff as it slopes away to the South from where I have seen it and is a busy place. It is NOT Alvah (more relatives in there!).
I have tried the MIs at http://anesfhs.org.uk/ but no Mary H Stevenson to match your criteria.
Sorry if it sounds "negative" as we rule out the less possible but the "correct result" will come if you persist with it. It was in June 1926 so it can't be that difficult!
Keep at it, nw_whiskers.
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Thanks for all this assistance. Chalmers Hospital is indeed in Banff, not Aberdeen - my error. Checking the marriage cert. I can now see that James Garden was from "Nethermills[,] Parish of Ordiquhill." So nw_whiskers, you have found the right place. (Another error of mine.)
I live in Ontario, Canada, and won't be in Scotland again for some time. Is the Banffshire Journal viewable online through the ANESFHS? This is an intriguing story. I appreciate al your help in trying to get to the bottom of it.
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Hi Chalfont
You could try an email and accompanying photo/full details etc to www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/bereavement/bb_burialgrounds.asp
Worth a try :)
Monica
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Dear Chalfont, If you use the link I gave for the Aberdeen Family History Society the "most helpful" ladies there may look it up for you as they have the news papers on micro film on the LHS of the reception desk or the link that Monica gave but they are a bit expensive if I remember correctly. Yes, it is a bit of a pain that these papers are not up on-line so that you could search them for yourself (frustration!).
If you can get a better scan (200 or 300 dpi) of the photograph that would help as the background is difficult to determine. It could "even" be the Banff Cemetry in 1926 looking East to West with the ground rising to the North where I normally come in. The problem is what is in the background? It looks like trees which is fair enough but no wall and the lack of detail in the background makes it difficult. Another part to the North looks like "perhaps hay" as it is June time frame but again? The Whitehills Cemetries are to the West of Banff so they are possible but they are nearer the sea as I understand them. It is interesting that she was born in Portsoy so it could be there but I would expect a different background if we are looking from East to West around there.
It looks like the link to the FHS is a fair choice for you as they have the material on hand - the "Banffshire Journal" , "Deaths 2nd June 1926" and her name should be enough for them. The alternative is the link that Monica gave as the should be able to pin point that Headstone.
Keep us posted on the progress as my wife has her Stevensons going into Portsoy in the 1800s so you never know.
Keep going forward, nw_whiskers.
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...or the link that Monica gave but they are a bit expensive if I remember correctly.
Do they charge for this? Some do for sure :-\ The Glasgow Council search is now over £60 per query...
Monica
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Dear MonicaL, I think that the Aberdeen Council make a charge for even a "wee look" at their records and the Aberdeen Family History Society will want a membership out of it plus a small fee for the research. I hardly think that it will be anything like the £60 you mention for Glasgow.
The reason I have asked for a better scan of the photograph for the "Headstone plus the background" is that we could get a clue as to the where it is if we can see the hill etc., in the distance. The back of the Stone is likely to be something like North facing. If it is near the NE Scotland Coast we should see the hills across the Moray Firth if we are lucky. Even if she has to send it as a "personal message" it will be less costly than 1 or 2 above but it carries the risk that we still don't recognise the site. Banff, Portsoy or Fordyce are kind of my favourites at the moment but I am open to a surprise result.
Chalfont will need to make a choice from what we have posted for her or help us with more info from her end. You and I are scratching our heads and doing our best from what has been posted so far. If it was easy it would NOT be a worth while challenge!
Best wishes to all, nw_whiskers.
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Dear Chalfont, Can you post the section of the Death Certificate showing her place of residence as I see a Cornhill Farm to the "East of MacDuff" and a Cemetary on the outskirts of town near there. Was the Death Certificate made out at Portsoy or Banff or somewhere else?
You say that they were married in Banff in 1924 which is a bit strange if the lived at Cornhill in the parish of Ordiquhill but it does make sense if they were in fact at Cornhill Farm near MacDuff. Who was the witness for the Death Certificate as this may help. Is his or her occupation mentioned on the marriage certificate or the Death Certificate as this could be helpful and relevant information.
These two Cornhill references are many miles apart and possibly confusing everybody. Remember to post "small but relevant sections" of the Death and Marriage Certificates for Copyright reasons.
nw_whiskers.
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Small details: b. 29.09.1892, Aird Grue (?), Portsoy, Informant: father.
m. 26.12.1924, St. Andrews Hall, Castle Street, Banff, Minister: William Potter, Ordiquhill, Witnesses: Robert Gray, 26 Garden St., Macduff; Mary Ann Wilson, "Rothen (?), Cornhill.
d. 02.06.1926, Chalmers Hospital, Banff, usual residence: Cornhill Village, Informant: James Garden.
Nothing here to suggest burial is somewhere other than local area. Still working on picture.
Thanks
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One related piece of info. The LDS-transcribed 1901 Census on Ancestry shows George Stevenson, wife Mary and three children at Broadley (farm) in Boyndie. Wrongly states 8 year-old Mary as born in Fordyce. Pretty sure this is authentic family as my great grandparents William Murray/Elizabeth Runcie and their family lived on Broadley farm for 40 years, and the Murrays are the common link between my family and Mary (Stevenson) Garden.
Broadley is in Boyndie but close to Alvah parish church and cemetery. The Murray children were christened at Alvah. Elizabeth Runcie erected a family monument there. I've visited the cemetery. Outside the church walls as I remember, it's not flat as in the picture, but slopes to the east. But I don't think we can entirely discard Broadley as a possibility until we have a more definitive solution. Thanks
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Could be she was born at Aird Street, Portsoy - on Google Maps I see there is one there. First word is definitely Aird, so I'd say this was a good possibility. No street number supplied.
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Dear Chalfont, We are getting down into the detail of what you see at your end which is good so keep working on it. Sometimes the writing can be difficult so you may have to post bits of it yet. The Boyndie connection is excellent and I know exactly where it is. Yes, they have Farming connections which is what I suspected. My wife's Gt Grandfather probably knew them to speak to as he Farmed just up the brae from Boyndie. I warned you about the Stevensons and the most incredible part is starting to emerge!
The Grey Granite Headstone is a "beautiful" monument to her and it most certainly cost a small fortune when it was put up. Do your best with the photograph as it should help us locate the Cemetary for you.
I will print your posts so that I can study the details in a bit more closely.
Best wishes for now, nw_whiskers.
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Dear Chalfont, Does the attached picture look like the place you visited at Boyndie in 2011?
nw_whiskers.
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One thing that strikes me from your latest photo, nw_whiskers. Not sure when the photo of the Mary Stevenstone's stone was taken (any info on this?) but if your photo was taken 80+ years later, it could well be the same area although there is no way of telling at present. Mary's photo looks like a new area of a burial ground given there is nothing really in close proximity, other than a far away grave in the left, nothing else seems nearby.
Monica
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Dear Monica, This is the "Old Church & Churchyard" from Boyndie as I understand it where they were in 2011 (perhaps ?). The New part is along the road a bit and it is a "Cemetary" (NOT a Churchyard) run by the Aberdeenshire Council. Both are close to Boyndie Bay if you can get the BING Map to work for you. You will then understand why we "need to see the BACKGROUND in the Picture". Can we see if the Whins or Gorse are there to hold the sand in place or is it the "hills in the North of Scotland" in the far background or whatever. Perhaps the Caravan Park! The Wooden Boxes you see to the left of the above picture are Potato Box from the Farm next door. I can assure you that I do know what I am on about just as you are an expert at your job (and you are good at it!).
The attached MS Word File.RTF has the coordinates in it. I hope they make some sense to you. If you can get the "view from the air" to work you will everything in full colour and the waves lashing on to the coastline.
nw_whiskers.
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Dear Monica, I have checked the attachment to the last post to see that it is all there with the coordinates and the hyper-links that come on BING so you should be home and dry with that.
Please NOTE this is all fanciful speculation using 2012 technology untill we see some "specific evidence" to support this latest "theory".
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Dear All, We are asked to find a fine object that is about 6 foot high and 2 foot wide from a list of "place names" and a "photograph of a large field" in about 2,000 square miles in the North East of Scotland. The object in the forground is "most impressive" and easily identified by what is engraved on it. The problem is that we can NOT identify the field as we can NOT SEE any prominent landmarks in the far background. Something LARGE and obvious would be of some help but it may be an IMPOSSIBLE request on my part. Do NOT try to create something that is not there already as will not solve the problem. A simple YES I can see a big Church Spire or a Lighthouse or a Big Hill in the distance is what we want so that we know what "you are seeing" at your end.
We have more than enough information on the "hard working families" involved in the early 1900s, the "fairy tail" wedding in Banff and of the sad events/loss of Mary Henderson Stevenson less than 2 years later. The family were "truly heart broken" and errected a very expensive monument to her. Anybody would be proud to stand beside that one and have their photograph taken in that field but we have to find it first.
My methods are not always "pretty" in the eyes of some but I have found many Stevenson gravestones back into the 1700s in Banfshire where others have failed so try and be patient as it should come to us in the end as we eliminate the "less likely" areas and FOCUS on the more likely ones.
Focus ..... have we got a LARGE landmark in the background of this photograph. The one that is posted suggests that it is NO but you may have a better one in front of you. Yes or No?
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Dear Chalfont & MonicaL, I normally look at my wife's Stevenson Family from the pre 1855 era which takes a different mind set from the IT driven ones of the 20th Centuary so "please" do not dispair as I am more than upbeat on the subject for sure. I posted a summary of where we are on the 31st Dec 2012 so that "you can see" some of the picture that is forming in my mind. It is a lot less than 2,000 square miles of North East Scotland at this stage but we want to be sure we have the correct location before we get egg on our faces and have to retract. I am also more than sensitive to the legal constraints in Canada.
I "recognised" names on the Stevenson side in the first post from notes I made when I was in Banff-shire in Feb 2012 but they are not in the generation that Chalfont is asking about but could well be connected. Anyway, I have everything I need from the family detail side of the equation to move forward with the main event which is in essence:- "Anybody, would be proud to stand beside that Headstone and have their photograph taken in that field but we have to find the field first".
The camera angle for the attached photograph from 2006 is probably about correct if you look to the sky line just left of the big trees and the associated farm buildings. The Moray Firth is beyond the tree line in the far distance.
We are into 2013 and have everything to look forward too so we should be more than happy with our work to date. Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Hi all:
Thanks for recent posts. Unfortunately, my wife and I did not visit Boyndie - only Ordiquhill and Alvah graveyards. But the old picture of Mary's gravestone does not at first glance appear to be in any of those three. Also I have a ANESFHS booklet of memorial inscriptions for Alvah and Mary's gravestone is not listed in it.
I am trying to rescan the picture (initially mislaid but now located) to see if I can get better results.
Thanks again,
Chalfont
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Hi Again:
Here's the best I can do with the photo. Have tried to heighten the contrast at 200 dpi. 300 dpi starts to pick up imperfections in the paper. Behind mowed area on right there appear to be hay bales waiting for collection. Above that could be sea then sky horizon. Even in photograph impossible to be sure. So it could be the Moray Firth beyond the treeline but hard to know for certain.
Isn't being a detective fun?
Chalfont
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Dear Chalfont, The Kirkyard Booklet AA108 that I have in front of me is for the old gravestones around the Alvah Church and I have been in that Churchyard taking photographs of number 209 & 210 for William Watt as he comes into my wife's Stevenson family tree. Mary is in a Cemetary not that far away to the North of Alvah (nearer the Moray Firth!) if my "speculation" is correct but we need to be sure about that before we post anything specific otherwise we are going to look stupid.
I have looked and looked at the FIRST photograph and sometimes I think that there is a hill far away into the distance (to the right and up) so you latest will be most interesting when I post this and take a look at it.
I will be "truly amazed" if we can not find Mary Henderson Stevenson so we should enjoy our work to that end.
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Dear Chalfont, The camera angle for the photograph could easily be North West so the item up and to the right of the tree line "could be" at or near Whitehills as the new Cemetary is close to Boynie Bay. We just need to clinch it with some "better evidence" so we are not finished yet or put it another way "some more fun" to come.
The Old Church and Churchyard is located:-
Inverboyndie St Brandon's Church (old Parish Church of Scotland) and Burial Ground, Boyndie
Description: Inverboyndie St Brandon's Church (old Parish Church of Scotland) and Burial Ground
Category: B
Date Listed: 22 February 1972
Historic Scotland Building ID: 3237
OS Grid Coordinates: 366656, 864520
Latitude/Longitude: 57.6693, -2.5606
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Dear Chalfont and MonicaL, You can use this link to see both the Old Church Yard and the New Area along the B9038 road if you are in "Bird's eye view". Remember to scroll down the page to get to the pictorial part. You will see the Farm Buildings nearby, down to the sea shore and yellow looking bushes (whins in Scotland!) at the edge of the field. The Bird's Eye View gives you a chance to see what it is like around there today.
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/sc-3237-inverboyndie-st-brandon-s-church-old-paris/bingmap
Remember this is "speculation" and we need better evidence to clinch the matter.
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Thanks for the visuals, nw_whiskers.
I'm afraid my spatial intelligence is somewhat limited, and my local knowledge of the area limited. Do you think that we should retain Boyndie as a possibility or does the picture reject it?
I'm having fun with this and hope you are too.
Chalfont
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Dear Chalfont and MonicaL, We brought the Aberdeen visit forward by several weeks to see if we could gain a better insight into the whole matter of Mary H Stevenson. We went by car and it took us about 1.5 hours to get into 164 King Street, Aberdeen sign in at the reception and round the corner. Our first roadblock was the 1926 newspapers are not in their collection as they stop at 1899. Undaunted the helpers around there made an "immense effort" to show us their IT capabilites with screens of map after map of what was Banffshire until I was driven to dispair and showed them my old paper copy that covered everything in a matter of moments. After that it was a number of data base searches that took us to near lunch time and nothing to help in finding Mary. The "black and white" picture was examined and commented on by a few interested ones that came by to chip in with their local knowledge. A "lovely Headstone for sure" but that does not look like a Cemetery anywhere we know off. Is that two "coos" in the background (the two light specs in the distance to the left of the headstone!) so they were beginning to think beyond the IT stuff by this stage which was a great relief to us. By the way "coos" are cows in local slang! In the end they finally relented and gave us the location of the "old fashioned newspaper archives" away into another part of Aberdeen. We made it there a bit foot sore, climbed the three flights of stairs and found the desk to ask for the 1926 paper we wanted. It did not take long for them to produce the film which we were quick enough to mount on the machine and wind forward to June 1926. We found a short entry for the death of Mary but NO LOCATION of burial which was a big disappointment. However, it does have a thread that links the apparently disjointed bits (to us at this end!) that does direct our attention to a better corner of countryside for that Headstone.
It is more leg work, more than twice as far to travel and more expense with no guarantee of success. If she were my relative I would be inclined to take the risk and the expense as no amount of IT will deliver the "evidence" and the possible joy you seek.
Have a good think about it as I can write off the several tens of pounds that has gone into this as I elected to go and spend the day in Aberdeen on Mary Henderson Stevenson for my personal satisfaction. I can draw a line under it at this stage as I can see the thread of credability running through it all and I am happy with it at this point in time.
I am glad that you are enjoying the technology and the sight of the whins around Boyndie Bay but it is looking less likely that she is in there.
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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Hi nw_whiskers:
Many thanks for your heroic efforts yesterday in going to Aberdeen and searching for Mary's gravesite. I'm sure it must have been frustrating to have got this close and still not have found a definitive answer.
Regarding the merits of a further possible research trip, only you can say whether there is a resaonable possibility of success. Certainly there would be no guarantee. As my contribution to such a trip, I'd be prepared to send you a cheque drawable on a UK bank for 25 pounds to help cover some of the expenses. I realise that this would in no way cover all your out-of-pocket expenses, to say nothing of your time, but would offer it as some expense money for your RAOGK (Random Act of Genealogical Kindness) on my behalf.
Think about it. If you say "no," so be it - no hard feelings on my part. You've certainly helped me a lot on this file so far.
Best wishes,
Chalfont
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Dear Chalfont, You are close to where Mary is likely to be in your hunt for her Headstone and have gone through all the "ups and downs" that this entails. The real joy will come when you get to where she actually is and then you will start on the next one in the line back the way from her.
The indications I have put Mary in or about the town of Banff so it could be a trek around three or four Cemeteries in that area. Boyndie would not be my first choice but it could end up there. If I were close the Banff I would have done the walk long ago and you would know for sure by this time. The sum of 25 UK Pounds would about fuel my small car for the trip "to" Banff as we pay a lot of tax on our gallons which makes them rather expensive.
You could think about the Aberdeenshire Council Office in Banff to see if they will narrow it down to a specific site for you. Do they want a fee from you or are they going to do a search for you is something I have no certain knowledge about or you could try at the Web Site link that MonicaL gave you in an earlier posting. If I remember correctly the Banff Office was at Seafield House in the center of Banff.
Anyway you are nearly there and I will be VERY disappointed if you give up at this stage. You need to persist with your efforts even if you put it aside for a few weeks and come back to it with a new determination to succeed with YOU hunt for Mary Henderson Stevenson.
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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nw_whiskers:
Thanks for this. I'm currently pursuing another line of enquiry that will take a few days to unfold. Let me see how this works out before deciding how best you might be able to assist. I do appreciate your concern, interest, and effort on this matter. Let me see what additional information I can assemble, then go from there.
All the best for 2013.
Chalfont
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Dear Chalfont, The Aberdeenshire Council are the only sensible avenue left open to you and they will respond to your in due course.
Best of luck, nw_whiskers.
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I never cease to be amazed by the generosity of spirit by people helping others with their genealogy.
I thought for a while that tracing Mary Stevenson Garden's resting place from that old photo was probably impossible...until a wonderful lady in Banff stepped in to help. She also enlisted the help of someone else to take a photo of Mary's grave today, which helps to bring the story up to date like nothing else does really.
Mary is buried at Myrus Cemetery, MacDuff. She is buried with her husband James and her daughter Betty. Sad to note that her daughter Elizabeth died in 1950, at the age of 24, of TB like her mother Mary. She could not have been long married, to a disabled service man called Ronald Clark Findlay. How hard this must have been for James Garden. He showed as a gravedigger on his daughter's death registration.
To update the inscription we had:
Can anyone please help me find her burial location? She and her husband James Garden lived in Cornhill Village, Banffshire. A family photograph of her grave contains the folowing inscription:
Erected by
JAMES GARDEN
CORNHILL
IN LOVING MEMORY OF HIS WIFE
MARY H. STEVENSON
WHO DIED 2nd JUNE 1926
AGED 33 YEARS
ALSO OF
THEIR LOVING DAUGHTER
BETTY
BELOVED WIFE OF RONALD C FINDLAY
WHO DIED 14TH FEB 1950
AGED 24 YEARS
ALSO THE ABOVE
JAMES GARDEN
WHO DIED 26 AUG 1961
AGED 88 YEARS.
Monica
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Just wanted to bring together the two photos. Also demonstrate how different it all looks today. The stone is looking good isn't it, and the inscription still very clear and well maintained. Thank you kind lady up in Banff and the person who took the photo today!
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Dear MonicaL, The "kind lady" from Banff has done a great job and tied up all the loose ends that was around this story. The McDuff location makes a lot sense as the "best man" for the Banff wedding was located there. I am so pleased that it has been resolved with some "real evidence" that we can all see and appreciate for ourselves.
Best wishes, nw_whiskers.
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I'm immensely grateful to Monica L who did some quiet "sleuthing" on the side and enlisted the kind assistance of the lady in Banff. I really didn't expect to uncover the location of the stone without extensive slogging around the cemeteries of northern Banffsire. It's great that clever and dedicated people, nearer the spot than I, have taken time on my behalf to unravel this mystery.
Thanks also to nw_whiskers. You were the one who re-started this enquiry after it had lain dormant for months.
Best wishes,
Chalfont
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If I recall correctly her Grandparents have a Headstone in the Old Fordyce Churchyard. If my memory is correct it was in nice polished Grey Granite & gold lettering beside the wall at the back side (North from the entrance gate) of the Church Yard. Unfortunately my camera battery was flat by the time I got there in Feb 2012. I am sure that I wound this info into one of the earlier post but it was not your main focus at that time! The names were correct and the place Cornhill was correct so it could be them.
Somebody living near that Church Yard may help you with that one if you flag it up nicely.
nw_whiskers.
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Thanks for this info, nw-whiskers.
You wouldn't happen to know if the A&NESFHS has published an inscriptions booklet for Fordyce, would you? (I have the ones for Forglen and Botriphnie.) Do you recall whether it was her father's family (Stevenson) or mother's family (McKenzie) that is buried there?
THanks for keeping this post alive.
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George Stevenson + Mary Henderson from Leggsmill, Cornhill in the Old Fordyce Churchyard if I recall correctly. It looks like her "GRAND PARENTS" to me ..... yes TWO Generations!
The best chance you have is to ask for somebody living near there to go in and get a photograph for you. It is in the Main Gate and follow the wall around to the LEFT until you reach the back wall and it is in the corner as I recall. It is a long "curved boundary" so they are unlikely to miss it.
I have seen these offers from "kind people" from around FORDYCE posted before so you need to ask and hope you get a response.
Mary Stevenson nee. Henderson died 18 June 1912 aged 65 years. It could be them but you have to work on it.
nw_whiskers.