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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: brer on Thursday 27 September 12 13:58 BST (UK)
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Thomas Gaskell and Emma Taylor married in 1907. They appear on the 1911 at 25 William street, Failsworth with twin sons. James Eccles is listed as a boarder.
There is some secrecy about James Eccles, which has never been told about. I can't find him on the 1901 but he is on the 1891 living with Emma's mother Julia Taylor; and again on the 1881, where Julia is listed as Judith.
I can't find Julia on the 1901 either, nor have I found her death.
If anyone could possibly make some headway with this, it would be great.
Many thanks
~ Claire
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It appears from the 1891 census that Julia Taylor is living in James Eccles's household, rather than him living with her (a subtle difference, but may be important).
Cati
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Well, 1911 shows him as bn Cheshire, about 1854, and widowed.
1891 he is single and bn Derbyshire.
So he doesnt make it easy for us.
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Nightmare! ???
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He might be Julia's fancy man. ;)
Do you have Emma's birth certificate? Who does it name as her father?
THe secrecy you mention about James Eccles - is this a family story or something you suspect from your census findings?
I will see if I can find James in 1901.
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Do you know what Julia's maiden name was? She wasn't an Eccles by any chance? :-\
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Is this him?
Probate index-
James Eccles of 10 Carlton Str Darwen, died 21 Dec 1928, admin 31 Jan 1929 to Melita Maud Taylor (wife of John Taylor)
(but I cant see a death in the indexes to match)
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He might be Julia's fancy man. ;)
Do you have Emma's birth certificate? not yet, just looking for a friend Who does it name as her father?
THe secrecy you mention about James Eccles - is this a family story or something you suspect from your census findings? family story apparently
I will see if I can find James in 1901. Thank you
The probate could be him - the names seem to match
Thank you for all you're doing
~ C
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I can't see an obvious good match for James Eccles in 1901 (but sometone else may be able to spot him).
There is a James Eccles living in Darwen with wife Sarah and a number of children, but this one is a farmer aged 51. Might this be the one with the will? Surname Taylor? Coincidence? :-\
Brer, I don't suppose you can press your friend or any of her relatives to see if they have any more information about James Eccles and the scandal? All we can see so far is that he and Julia are on the census together. There may not be an obvious relationship to find via a paper trail, which is why I'm interested in the gossip. ;D
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John and Melita Maud Taylor are in the 1911 census living in Darwen. He is 35. She is 33. They have a 2 year old daur Winifred.
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It appears from the 1891 census that Julia Taylor is living in James Eccles's household, rather than him living with her (a subtle difference, but may be important).
Cati
Brer, is this the correct family in 1881?: James is a boarder and Judith is head of household (and a widow). He is a coalminer b Poynton Cheshire (same as in 1911). Judith has a 10 week old daughter Hannah.
I wonder who Hannah's father is?
If Judith is a 28 year old widow in the 1881 census, with 3 daughters, the youngest being 10 wks, and she then goes on to have Emma in 1886 .... I would be wondering who Emma's father is?
I would probably try to track down her birth certificate if I were your friend.
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Agree - plus see who she listed as her father at her 1907 marriage?
I was just going to post 1881 to
save keep looking it up:
4 Guide Street Failsworth
Judith H Taylor widow 28 Card Rm cotton mill bn Ashton under lyme
Charlotte 7
Nancy 2
Hannah 10 mths
James Eccles 25 unm boarder bn Poynton Cheshire (at least that agrees with 1911)
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If I have the correct family in 1881, there is a 2 year old daur Nancy E. This may be her:
Births Mar 1879
Taylor Nancy Elizabeth
Prestwich 8d 459
I wonder who her father is? ;)
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lizdb, I think baby Hannah is 10 weeks old (compare M of Mar and W of W for Widow) :)
I think that buying a certificate or two or three might sort this puzzle out. (I hope ;))
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I can't quite make out Charlotte's middle initial. I am trying to locate her birth in Freebmd. There are quite a lot of Emma Taylor biths registered around 1886 ....
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Possible marriage
Jul/Aug/Sep 1873
Manchester
Jonathan Taylor - Judith HAnnah Kirkman
Hmmmm - lots of deaths of Jonathan Taylors, wonder which is him.
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Most likely is :
Jul/Aug/Sep 1875
Prestwich 8d 296
Jonathan Taylor age 23
which raises questions on Nancy's parentage
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Possible marriage
Jul/Aug/Sep 1873
Manchester
Jonathan Taylor - Judith HAnnah Kirkman
Jul/Aug/Sep 1875
Prestwich 8d 296
Jonathan Taylor age 23
which raises questions on Nancy's parentage
Both of these look pretty good.
Questions about Nancy, Hannah and Emma's parentage/father/s too. Answer more than likely to be one James Eccles. ;) Confirmation required of course.
Certificate time I think.
PS. I didn't see son Thomas b 1887 hiding there on the 1891 census. Who's his daddy?
I also note that James Eccles is head in the 1891 census and in the relationship column there is a question mark for Julia. A hint?
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I haven't yet found James and Julia/Judith in 1901. I expect they may be together mistranscribed somehow. Or perhaps Julia has died? Maybe that is why James is with Emma in 1911 ....
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Death
Jul/Aug/Sep 1899
Prestwich
Judith HAnnah Taylor age 48
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Birth
Juk/Aug/Sep 1850
Ashton under lyne ref 20 8
Julia Hannah Kirkman
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excellent Lizdb! Those deaths look very good. That must be why James describes himself as a 'Widower' in 1911.
Were James and Julia ever married?
So now I'm off to broaden the search for James in 1901. He's got to be out there somewhere (maybe with one of the other girls :-\)
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Still no luck finding James Eccles in 1901. :(
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Thank you so much for your hard work guys - I really appreciate it....it's usually me hunting for others' missing censuses :D
Just trying to find Julia/Judith KIRKMAN on the earlier censuses now.
~ C
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I think she must be hiding. I can't even see her in 1851. How hard can it be to find a one year old Julia/Judith Kirkman? :-\
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I think she must be hiding. I can't even see her in 1851. How hard can it be to find a one year old Julia/Judith Kirkman? :-\
I've got them in 1861 down as KIRK -
RG 9; Piece: 2570; Folio: 47; Page: 15
~ C
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and in 1871 -
RG10; Piece: 4065; Folio: 28; Page: 2
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I think she must be hiding. I can't even see her in 1851. How hard can it be to find a one year old Julia/Judith Kirkman? :-\
I've got them in 1861 down as KIRK -
RG 9; Piece: 2570; Folio: 47; Page: 15
~ C
OK, found them at last :P. Kirk - no wonder.
At least we can see where the name Nancy came from. And she has a son with a different surname. ;)
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I think I might have found James Eccles in the 1861 living with a large coalmining Eccles family in Poynton, Cheshire. RG9?2574/121/10
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In 1871 James is in Bredbury born Hazel grove rather than Poynton, with parents Hezekiah and Elizabeth and siblings.
RG10/3653/96/36
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Interesting stuff!! :o
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I'm going mad here trying to find James in 1901. I've tried everything I can think of but can't see him - frustrating .... >:(
Claire, I am really curious to know if James is the father of any of those children, and if so, which ones. Will you be recommending that your friend buys a couple of certificates? :)
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I'm going mad here trying to find James in 1901. I've tried everything I can think of but can't see him - frustrating .... >:( scarlett pimpernel
Claire, I am really curious to know if James is the father of any of those children, and if so, which ones. Will you be recommending that your friend buys a couple of certificates? :) I definitely will and will let you know ;)
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A bit of a side shoot but may come in handy one day:
Deaths Jun 1893
Eccles Hezekiah 66 Stockport 8a 14
Oh, the joy of an unusual name. ;D
Free bmd has a couple of marriages for a Hezekiah Eccles - not sure if there are one or two Hezekiahs.