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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Laois (Queens) => Topic started by: Dorliz on Thursday 27 September 12 03:58 BST (UK)
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John Coss dob 1814 Queens Co. Tried Queens Co. 1836
Transported on St. Vincent 1837 - Married
Life - Stealing a Cow. Labourer
Patrick Coss dob 1814 Queens Co. Tried Queens Co. 1836
Transported Earl Grey 1836 - 7yrs. Assult
Farm Servant
Thomas Coss dob 1816 Queens Co. Tried Queens Co. 1834
Transported 1835 Forth - Life Murder
Farm Labourer.
would anyone think these three might be brothers or how can I find out.
Patrick is mine.
Dorliz
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Sorry forgot to say they were Transported to Aust.
Dorliz
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The births of your Coss brothers are all pretty early, even for parish records. You usually require a more detailed location to check for possible records - e.g. the town, townland or parish. Do you have any details of parents for John Patrick and/or Thomas from their marriage or death records ?
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Quite a bit later than your guys, i.e. 1850s, there are a number of Coss listings on Griffith's valuation, a land taxation survey - see : Coss surname (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=39&Submit.y=3&familyname=coss&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=QUEEN%27S&unionname=&parishname=)
there are just 135 people with the Coss surname on the 1901 census, 115 of which are were born in Co. Laois. see : Coss 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=coss&exact=&firstname=&county=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=Queen%27s+County&language=&deafdumb=&search=Search&sort=countySort&pageSize=100)
Shane
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I know there were 24 families named Coss in Mountrath around that time. Is
Coss a common Irish Name. Doesn't seem to be from the distribution.
I also know from death cert. for Patrick that his father was Michael mother unknown
which always strikes me as stange when the father is named, did they not mention their
mother in these times (any nationality).
The reason I asked was for an opinion - I just don't know but it seems too much of
a coincidence. John was married accoring to his record - they all three are listed on the
Irish Rebel site though there is not too much rebel about their deeds.
thanks for your reply shanew147, hopefully something will turn up.
Dorliz
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Hi there,
Both John and Patrick were tried on the same day '13th July 1836' which could lead you to believe they were brothers - different crimes though ???
Tara
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I would assume they were twins.
Dorliz
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RE John Coss
The Ireland Transportation database shows that he resided with his wife at Mullaghavard Queens County. May help to identify the family
see link
http://tinyurl.com/cb98f68
annclare
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Just checked the townland and I believe the present name is Mullaghanard or Dereen which is in Rosenallis Civil parish and the RC. parish Mountmellick has records that cover this area. The parish records start quite early 1814 so it may be possible to get baptismal records for John and his brother as it seems they were possibly twins.
annclare
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Great Find AnnClare
Two later Coss' on the GV for Mountmellick / Rosenallis district
gv rosenallis laois (http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/laois/rosenallis.htm)
Tara
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Hi Dorliz
What religion was your Patrick ?
There was a Michael having children at the time we are talking about in the Mountmellick district but I can only see and Elizabeth and a Catherine born to him and they were Roman Catholic - this has been gotten from the free index on ifhf.
Laois records can be very 'hit and miss' though !
Tara
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Was John's wife named in any of the records ?
Tara
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Thanks everyone for looking, I try to think what John and Patrick were doing maybe John stole the cow and Patrick assulted whoever tried to stop him - just a theory.
Patrick Coss was Catholic and died 9 Feb 1889 at Pound Street Glen Innes NSW he fathered five children - Margaret, Michael, Patrick Jane and Bridget. I haved not discovered the name of Johns wife as yet.
Dorliz
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Thanks everyone for looking, I try to think what John and Patrick were doing maybe John stole the cow and Patrick assulted whoever tried to stop him - just a theory.
Patrick Coss was Catholic and died 9 Feb 1889 at Pound Street Glen Innes NSW he fathered five children - Margaret, Michael, Patrick Jane and Bridget. I haved not discovered the name of Johns wife as yet.
Dorliz
People often stole out of desperation and hunger, most of the crops tenants grew went to pay rent to landlords . I know from reading the court reports in local newspapers of the day in my parish in the same county,That thefts of sheep and cattle shot up Dramatically during the famine of the 1840's, the animals bones would often be found later with ever piece of useful meat striped from the bones according to the newspapers reports i have read . Famine on a small and local scale was quiet common in the 19 century Ireland , it was a recuring tragedy in their lives until after the land war of the 1880's - 1900's when tenants gained ownership of their homes and land from the Landlords
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Yes jjjj2 I agree with your sentiments, Patrick Coss was a forebare of my husband but my own family tells me of the desperation of
the poor. I have four family members who came to Australia as guests of the crown. I just want to know if these three men were
brothers, I am reasonably sure that Patrick John were, but was Michael a younger brother. Dorliz
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Have you looked up Griffiths Valuation online for this townsland or the Civil parish it is in (not the roman catholic parish which may have a different name ) it is quite common to find whole families of the same surname renting seperate but ajoining plots of land in the same townsland or the townsland nextdoor to that one .It is always a good indicator that they are either brothers and sisters or cousins . try to find a townsland map for Laois (Queens County ) or that parish. It would show you where one townsland is in relationship to another . This would help you make sense of Griffiths Valuation and see connections between families of the same name that you would never get if you didnt know from a map that they lived in a joining townsland . i wish tell where to find a townsland map online for that part of Laois but it's the one thing that i didn't have to look for as there had been one in my house for years before i started tracing my family tree
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thanks jjjj2, had a look at this very interesting sight but could not find any connection, may take another look later in case I missed anything.
Dorliz
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Thanks everyone for looking, I have not discovered the name of John's wife as yet.
Dorliz
I was able to look at John's Convict Reference File in the Archives and there was a petition from his wife whose name is given as Elizabeth/Eliza Coss. She petitioned in August/September 1836 and she said she was only 10 months married at the time and was due a child in two months.
There was nothing else of interest that might give clues re the relationship between John and Patrick. The prison file has very few details and just shows both sentenced on the same day.
I took photocopies and if you would like to have copies send me a P.M with your e-mail address.
annclare
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Thank you very much Annclare, so very kind of you, one wonders if he ever saw his wife a child again, have sent you a pm.
Dorliz