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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: fambuff2 on Wednesday 26 September 12 22:20 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help with my research for my Gt. Grandparents. Names were Joseph Shelbourne Wray b. abt 1863 and Rebecca Kincaid b. abt 1843. I found them on the 1901 census for Tullyannon Glebe, Taughboyne, Raphoe Barony but they disappear at 1911. My grandpa aged 9 and another brother aged 12 were living with their older brother, also Joseph, and his family at 1911 census. I suspect from this that my Gt. Grandparents may have died between 1901/1911 census but I can't find anything at all about them i.e. births, a marriage or a death for them. No immediate family members left who know anything. Nothing in Parish records that I can find. It's driving me nuts :( Thanks for any help that anyone may have.
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Welcome to Rootschat.
For reference here's the family in 1901 census:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Castleforward/Tullyannon_Glebe/1190606
Possible death for Joseph?
Joseph Wray, age 65, Jan./Mar.1908, Donegal registration district volume 2 page 36
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Came across mention of the family here which points to a link to All Saints Church, Newtowncunningham- have you checked to see if there are any burial records for Joseph & Rebecca?
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/RobertThompsonInishowen.htm
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Thank you very much for the replies and information and I will follow up on the death info you gave for Joseph Wray. I did have the 1901/1911 census from nationalarchives.ie but couldn't get further than that. Is All Saints Parish the same as Taughboyne Parish as I did receive the dates of birth of grandpa's siblings from the latter, but no marriage or death information. I know 2 of grandpa's brothers were killed in WW1, (Charles Henry & John) and are mentioned on the Parish memorial wall. One of grandpa's nephews Charles was awarded the MM and I have his army records. I really appreciate the help as I'm a bit "blocked" here and I know someone out there will have a wee snippet that will let me kick start that Gt. Grandparent generation of the Wray/Kincaid stems.
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A few points that may add to your knowledge; Firstly, Emily Wray, who was the sister of Charles and John Wray (both killed in WW1) became Mrs Emily Beattie and lived at Nixon's Corner, Ballougry, which is a few miles from Londonderry. Secondly, a memorial hall was erected in Carrigans, County Donegal, in remembrance of the men from the Carrigans district who died in WW1. The names of John and Charles Wray and 29 other names were read out at the hall dedication ceremony in 1920. Sadly the memorial hall was maliciously destroyed by fire in 1971. Finally, Charles and John are commemorated on the rolls of honours of both Newtoncunningham and Taughboyne Parish churches.
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Apologies, my previous post was inaccurate as it should have said that Emily Beattie (of Nixons Corner) was a niece of Charles and John Wray. (Source of this information is 'Inishowen Heroes 1914-1918' which was compiled and edited by Robert Thompson, ISBN 978-0-9537583-6-4)
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Thank you so much for your reply. Since I was last here, I have been checking my suspicion that Charles & John were not sons of Joseph ShelbourneWray & Martha Gardiner, but in fact were my grandpa's brothers and sons of Joseph Wray and Rebecca Kincaid. I have had this confimed through baptismal records. JS Wray was also my grandpa's brother. I have Mr Thompsons book and have informed him of the above for his future reference. I have now managed to break the stalemate I had with this stem of the tree and have obtained copy records of births, deaths & marriages.
I thank you for your help once again.
Kind regards
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I am glad that you got your family tree clarified. Did the parent of Charles and John both die between the 1901 and 1911 census?. John Wray who died on the first day of the Battle of the Somme was only about 17 years old and the youngest from the Carrigans area to die in the Great War, do you know his date of birth? I have been researching the men from the Carrigans area who died. My father, who was 9 years old at the time, remembers the men parading through Carrigans on their way to catch the train to go off to the Great War.
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Hi I do have his and charles d.o.b. I will post it on here when I am at home. I think that my great grandparents must have died between those dates as I can't find any trace of them. I'm in the process of tracking down the deaths.
I'll come back to you in a few days.
All the best
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Hi
My Gt. Uncle John Wray was born on 10th July 1898 and died on 1st July 1916. Gt.Uncle Charles (middle name Henry) was born on 5th September 1894 and died on 15th September 1916. I have the pages from the War Diary for the days they died.
All the best
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Thanks for this. Very sad that so many died so young. The dates confirm that John was the youngest to die from the Carrigans area.
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It says on the census that Joseph Wray was a Army Pensioner Infantry have you look for his pension
lots of Wray mentioned on the donegal resources site:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal
click on Taughboyne or type in the Basic Box Wray
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Thank you both for your replies.
It is interesting though sad to know that my Gt.Uncle John was the youngest Carrigans lad to die. We definitely have a lot to be grateful for.
I haven't managed to find Gt.Grandpa's pension records unfortunately. The Forces War Records couldn't help and I didn't get a definitive answer to my query from the archives at Kew. However, they gave some info for asking someone to research it, and before I do this I want to see if there are any other avenues I can take to trace it.
All the best
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http://familysearch.org
Joesph Wray death Jan-Mar 1908, registration Donegal age at death 65, birth 1843
Volume 2, Page 36
cannot find Rebecca
Rebecca could have got married again, mybe the family fell out with her. Or on the 1911 census she was not mentioned on the census because she was out when the Census people called. If you were not in the house at the time the census people called you were not listed on the census.
On census for 1921 because of the troubles.
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Thank you for that. I did obtain a copy death cert entry for a Joseph Wray in 1908, but it wasn't the correct one so I'll check and if the info you have given is different to the reference I had, I'll get that copy cert. I use Family Search.org as well as other sites to pinpoint information and then I try and check that info out so that when I apply for copy certs I'm not wasting too much money if I find I've chased down the wrong person and especially check all different spellings etc.. I've been lucky up to now, though breaking the Wray/Kincaid side was a challenge. My mum's side has been the opposite and I've got reams on her branches. I'm now getting there though with my Irish relatives.
It may be that Rebecca remarried though no-one in the family can clarify and I've not found a marriage. I don't think there was a fall out as none of the family remembers hearing about a rift within the Wray side.
Thank you very for your help.
All the best
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http://familysearch.org
Joesph Wray death Jan-Mar 1908, registration Donegal age at death 65, birth 1843
Volume 2, Page 36
this was already posted (reply #1)
Death for Rebecca Wray same age as Joseph's wife-
Rebecca Wray, age 64, Apr./June 1917 Londonderry registration district volume 2 page 117.
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Thank you for the information on Rebecca Wray. I'll check it out. The information that you quote re Joseph relates to the copy entry I bought and is not my gt. grandfather. I appreciate all the hints and tips and info and I'll check out re Rebecca.
Thanks again & all the best
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Is there a particular reason that you are sure the death certificate doesn't belong to the Joseph you are looking for?
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Hi
If I remember right it was the name of the spouse (it wasn't Rebecca). As far as I'm aware from what family members do remember from their dad (Joseph's and Rebecca's son) there was no mention of any other spouses for either Joseph or Rebecca. Of course this may be incorrect, but I'm fairly certain they would have known, so for the time being I'll do a bit further research to clarify.
Re the information you provided as a possible death for Rebecca, I had a look on familysearch.org to see if there was any further information and it showed an estimated d.o.b. of 1853 for that entry. Rebecca was born around 1862/3 so that would make her 54/55 at 1917. This death relates to someone of 64 so I don't think it relates to my Gt. grandmother, but thank you for the information.
I've recently managed to trace a relative in Ireland that I didn't know I had and we hope between us we can go a wee bit further with this.
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Spouses aren't listed on death certificates unless they are the informant- perhaps if you can post the name on Joseph's death certificate as well as exact place it might help track down more records.
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Thank you. Will do. Am collating some information I have received for my mum's side at present, so will get round to it soon.
Tks again
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Just in case this helps someday, there was a Joseph Wray who was a witness to the marriage of David Kinkaid and Margaret Kinkaid of Ballyshannon on 30 July 1855 at the Presbyterian Church in Ballyshannon, Kilbarron Parish, County Donegal. Margaret's family has links to Donagheady Parish, County Tyrone and the family later ends up in Glasgow.
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To P.Kincaid.
Thank you so much for the information. I will certainly investigate it when I am back on to my father's side. I had come across a Margaret Kincaid so maybe I have been on the right track. I appreciate your input.
All the best
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To P Kincaid
Hi, Can you tell me if you have seen the marriage certificate of David & Margaret. If so can you tell me if Joseph is named on there as a witness or if I should look elsewhere to find that information before I purchase the certificate from Ireland Registry.
Many thanks & all the best.
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Hi
In a book with the title 'Ballyshannon, Belcoo and Bertincourt (The History of the 11th Battalion The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers)' I came across a couple of paragraphs which describes how Lance Corporal Charles Wray led a raiding party on enemy lines on 15th September 1916. Sadly he was killed on that raid. Have you seen this? If not I can key in the details if you are interested.
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Hello Carrigans,
Many thanks for your post. I'm sorry for the delay in replying. I would be very interested to read the extract. I have Robert Thompson's book Inishowen Hereos which has some information on this, but I am always interested in more in case there are other facts I've not yet seen. I appreciate your input very much, thank you
All the best
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Hi ....... Here is the detail from the book (Pages 80 and 81):
Major Pratt, who had served in the South African war and had been mentioned in Despatches, was soon to be promoted to Lt. Col. He decided to make a raid on the enemy positions. He wanted intelligence to determine if gas was installed in the enemy positions, the name of the enemy unit and the position of the machine guns.
The raid whic was meticously planned was carried out by four raiding parties divided into small groups of men. Each group was led by an NCO. In overall command was 2nd Lt. T Adams. It was very well supported by the Artillery.
These men were all heavily armed with rifles, bayonets and knobkerries. They also carried 10 bombs each and they had scaling ladders, wire cutters, grapnels and amongst other things a dinner bell for signal purposes.
They left their own trenches in the south corner of the Bull Ring to enter the enemy trenches forty five yards east of their own position on the night of September 15th.
As they went over the parapet they heard cheers from a neighbouring trench 'Go on the Inniskillings'. It turned out that the cheers were from the Nationalists in the 'Irish Brigade' who gave a hearty send off to their Orange brethren from their home county. Theie trenches were on the immediate left of the 11th that particular night.
They crossed their own parapet at quarter to nine with the moon rising behind some cloud. They formed up in a large shell crater twenty five yards from their own trench. Dashing forward they entered the enemy position through an unbelievably convenient gap in the wire.
A sentry challenged them as the leaders were mounting the parapet, fired a couple of shots and missed. Stray bullets from machine gun cross fire in No Mans Land caused two casulaties.
The first group led by L/Cpl Charles Wray from Taughboyne, Co Donegal, went south along the enemy front line. They met tough resistance and retaliated with bomb and bayonet. They killed eight and took one prisoner. A deep dug out was bombed. Sets of equipment were found on the parapet and these were thrown out but could not be recovered later.
L/Cpl Wray having used all his bombs collected German grenades and used them effectively. Sadly he was killed in this raid. He was awarded the MM for his courage on July 1st but the notification was not published until 4th October 1916. He did not live to receive the award.
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Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.
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This is probably of no direct relevance, but I have been investigating an Anne Wray born around 1805.
I just found a reference in the “Civil Survey of 1654” to “Henry Wray, minor and Elizabeth his mother” English Protestants who leased land in Ilistrin, Drumenan, Coolbuy, Lisstaneere, Bogay, Eaghterish, and Carnegill.
Someday it might mean something.
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Thank you Ian. At the moment it's not related as I have looked at these but I did keep the notes just in case (I think) that I found. I really appreciate the interest and your post.
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Hi, I'm the Great Great Grandaughter of Joseph & Rebecca...My Great Grandparents are Joseph & Martha and my Grandparents are Joseph & Charlotte . My father is Shelburn Wray
We have some of Charles Wray's War medals. We have a beauiful photo of Joseph & Martha in our living room
( In Australia!)
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Hello there,
Are you Doreen? I've been wanting to get in touch with you. I'm so pleased to hear from you. I have been trying to complete Joseph & Martha's stem on my family tree but have been struggling with their d.o.d's and where. Isla gave me a copy of a beautiful photo of them. If possible I would love to have a photograph of the medals. I have in the past sent some stuff I had to your dad via Isla. If you have access to ancestry.co.uk you can contact me direct via my Wray or I can let you have my email address here if you prefer.
TC and all the best
Maggie
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Hiya Maggie,
Yes, it's me! I haven't used Ancestory.co.uk for a while.
My email is doreen.wray@communitynews.com.au. Send me an email and I'll get a pic of the medals to you.
Very interested in the pages from the war diaries that you have.
It's such a small world!
All the best
Doreen :-)