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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Descendant of Murby on Sunday 23 September 12 17:19 BST (UK)
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Dear Rootschatters
I am trying to find John and Eliza Drew and their family.
John Drew b.c. 1804, born 'at sea' or 'Cattistock' (where he was christened I think)
Eliza Drew b.c. 1814, born Badminton, Gloucestershire (mis-spelt at various times as Badminster, Bedminster....). Although not born in Middlesex, they seemed to spend most of their adult life in Mile End New Town (which I'll call MENT), Whitechapel.
Would some kind soul be able to find them in 1841 (I'm not sure if they are living in Mile End New Town at that time) and let me know the details on the census, including the names and ages and places of birth of any children?
Also in 1861 - when they are definitely in living in MENT aged 47 and 57, but I don't have access to click into the census and find out their occupations and the names, ages and occupations of their children.
By 1881 John seems to have died and Eliza seems to have changed her name to Edwards, although I cannot find any record of her 'Eliza Drew' marrying anyone called 'Edwards'. She seems to be living with a 'Manistrin' Drew (I think this could be a typo too) and several grandchildren in MENT.
By 1891 an Eliza Edwards aged 90, born Badminton, is a pauper in an institution in St George in the East - I think this must be her.
Many thanks for your help.
Descendant of Murby
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Possible for 1841:
Bristol St Pauls
John Drew 33 Mason N
ELiza 31 Y
John Charles 3 N
George 1 N
fits in with the birthplace of child Edwin aged 9 in 1851. I see from 1851 that they then move to Kent before settling in MENT
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If they were in Bristol, she could have been born Bedminster.
Jennifer
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Good morning
1851 census 2 Bell road Stepney
John Drew 47 groundsman sewers Dorset Cattleslock
Eliza 37 Bedminster Gloucs
Edwin 9 Bath
Jane 5 Chatham Kent
Ann E 8mths Mile End New Town
1871 Underwood St
John Drew 67 no trade at sea
Eliza 57 slipper bundler Gloucestershire
Mary A 17 box make MENT
Edwin J grandson 11months Whitechapel
Can't spot the 1861 or i would've given you details of that.
Possible marriage St James Bristol John Drew and Eliza Winston 17.5.1837.There's a possible death for John in Whitechapel June 1874 age 71 1c 219.
Eliza Edwards died 22.3.1893 in St George in the East workhouse age 81 and was buried in the East London Cemetary.
Ann Elizabeth Drew married Louis Charles Juchan 26.6.1871 at St Jude Bethnal Green
Louis 21 blindmaker and undertaker 4 Gascoine st s of Louis Charles hawker
Ann Elizabeth 20 no 3 d of John drew excavator wit Louis charles and Caroline Juchan.
Edwin married at St thomas Stepney 4.2. 1866
Edwin bach ships carpenter stepney s of John excavator
Martha Wedge sp Samuel Wedge carman all signed mark wit Jane Drew x and Samuel French signed.
In 1871 they are living with her parents
Samuel Wedge 51 carman Whitechapel
Martha 44 tailoress same
(Owen) Drew porter Bath
Martha 25 tailoress St Geoge
Edwin P Drew 4 Whitechapel
Emily Wedge dau 17 machinst St George
Eliza Jane 10 scholar
All for now
Ciderdrinker
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Marriage St Jude Bethnal green 22.12.1873
George Charles Barber 19 carpente 3 spital st George Barber/Baker carpenter
Mary Ann Drew 19 11 George St /spicer st John Drew bricklayer
signed Geogre ,mark Mary and wit Martha Drew x.and Anthony Emm.
The children and grandchildren from 1881 and Eliza Edwards seem to be 1891 10 Mary St St George in the East
George Drew 35 butcher st George in the East
Mary Ann 34 Bethnal Green
William 16 baker Whitechapel
Edwin 13 van boy St George in the East
Eliza 11
Margaret 9
Herbert 6
Which seems a little weird as the mother is a widow in 1881 and George appears out of thin air
Ciderdrinker
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Dear All
Many thanks for all your responses.
Jennifer C - yes, I did think that was a possibility (that Badminton was actually Bedminster, on the outskirts of Bristol) but then I found last week, an Eliza Edwards (Eliza Drew seems to change her name to Eliza Edwards after 1871 but before 1881 even though she seems not to have married anyone called Edwards as far as I can see from BMD index.....?) in the 1891 census living in the workhouse in St George in the East.... and there her birth place is definitely Badminton. As it is in 1851 as far as I can see from Family Search info. So, I now think it probably is Badminton in South Gloucestershire and not Bedminster.... but I could be wrong.
ciderdrinker - many many thanks for looking up the family for me. I do have the bare facts of 1861 when they are living in Whitechapel, MENT, Eliza aged 47 and John Drew born at sea aged 57 but I can't 'click in' to see who else is living with them at that time in terms of children, which I would be interested in.
However, ciderdrinker - you have hit on the very conundrum which has been bugging me for many weeks and the reason I am trying to find out who Eliza and John Drew are and who their children were in the first place.
The problem (and this can make one's head ache a bit....I warn you):
???
In the 1891 census you mention little Herbert Drew and this is the person I am investigating, to complete a family tree for his 90 year old son (still very much alive and kicking) and his middle-aged grandsons.
Henry Herbert Drew, aged 6 in 1891 was born in 1885 in St George in the East to Mary Ann Baker and a John Drew (according to his birth certificate which I have purchased). However, there is no record of a Mary Ann Baker marrying a John Drew as far as I can see on BMD index. In 1891 a 'Mary Ann Drew' aged 34 is livinig with George 'Drew' the butcher and several children, including little Herbert (later known as Bertie). By 1901 George seems to be called George Vidler and Mary Ann and he are living with various Drew and Vidler children, including Bertie now aged 15. In 1911 H Herbert Drew (now grown up) is 'head' of the family of brothers, sisters and half-siblings - Drew and Vidler. There is no sign of mother Mary Ann at all, and George Vidler the butcher is living as a 'lodger' in some sort of accommodation or workhouse.
Henry Herbert Drew gets married in 1913 to Alice Maud Melrose and his father is recorded as William Henry Drew according to the bare facts on ancestry.com. So.....the mystery thickens! Why does Herbert think his father is William Henry Drew and not the John mentioned on his birth record?!
When exactly did a Mary Ann Baker marry John Drew or William Henry Drew for that matter?! I can't even find a record of her marrying a George Vidler the butcher! She and he certainly had children including an interestingly named George Vidler Drew in 1890!
This is why I am trying to find out about Henry Herbert Drew's mother, Mary Ann Baker/ Drew. I THINK she is the mis-spelt 'Manistrin' Drew living with Eliza Edwards in 1881 and the reason I think this is her is that she has 3 children William (Henry), Edwin (John) and Eliza (Adelaide) in 1881 and they are ALL present on the 1891 census, right ages, right places of birth so this MUST be them!
In 1881 this Manistrin (Mary Ann?) Drew is down as Eliza Edwards' 'daughter' so, if that is so, she must be the daughter of John Drew (he who is 'born at sea' ') surely? This makes it all even more confusing as she would then technically be a DREW! She is 28 in 1881 and a 'tailoress'. This would tie in possibly with the 'Mary A' Drew aged 17 living with Eliza and John Drew in 1871, box maker.....same sort of skills needed I imagine.
But this is really making my head spin as if she is the daughter of Eliza Drew (later Edwards) and John Drew (the 'born at sea' man), who IS Mary Ann BAKER?!
I've also tried to check the names of the 'fathers' put down on Herry Herbert's siblings marriage records and they are a mixture of 'William Henry Drew' and 'John Drew'. For example. Eliza Adelaide Drew marries Albert Thomas in 1910 and her father is down as 'John Drew' but Edwin John's is down as 'William Henry Drew' when he marries Eliza Munro in 1900.
Believe me, I've been mulling over every scenario possible. To cap it all, I can't find a John Drew or William Henry Drew living with their Drew offspring at all. On Henry Herbert's birth certificate in 1885, John Drew is down as 'general labourer' and the family are apparently living at 34 Tait Street..
I'm sure your heads are aching. Any advice or thoughts welcome! :)
Thank you
D of M
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What was John's occupation on Henry Herberts birth certificate?
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
In 1885 on Henry Herbert Drew's birth record John Drew is a 'general labourer', living in Tait St, St George in the East. I can't find a John Drew in 1881 who could be him. Well, part of the problem is that there are so MANY John Drews! And I have no idea where he came from or how old he was! And I can't find a John Drew marrying a Mary Ann Baker/ Edwards/ Drew - whatever she was called!
If Mary Ann's children William, Edwin, Eliza, Mary Ann, Henry Herbert and Gertrude (the first lot before she met George)) are actually fathered by William Henry Drew and John Drew, were they brothers and did William die before John came on the scene?!
Questions questions! That's all I have!
Thanks
D of M
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Hi
I think I have the answer for you.Mary Ann Baker and Mary Ann Drew are both the same woman.She is the daughter of John Drew born at sea who married a George Charles Barber/Baker 22.12.1873 at St Jude Bethnal Green.Ancestry has him as Barber and Freebmd as Baker.
I can't find a marriage of a Mary Ann Baker and a George Drew so I assume that is the family have gone back to her maiden name for some reason.Of course this doesn't explain why or where George Vidler/Drew the butcher came from (George Baker was a carpenter).Mary Ann Vidler GRO death Sep 1908 Stepney 1c 225 seems to be the mother.
Herbert's birth cert is obviously referring to his grandfather John which does suggest to me that he was illegitimate and therefore George Vidler/Drew is not the George Charles Baker married to his mother but why he's not just named on the birth cert as the father I can't guess.
Now George Vidler has a criminal record .Could that be why he's so keen to change his name?
2.5.1881 felionously selling? 5 days and 12 lashes with the rod
5.6.1882 for larceny by a servant and recieving he got 3 months.and he had recieved 9 minths for the same offence in 28.2.1870.There is a possible death for him in Euroa Victoria Australia in 1941 age 95 s of John Vidler and Mary Curran, but I don't think that's the same man.There are quite an impressive lot of George Vidlers.I do however think he's the George Drew in 1891, and in 1881 the man would be in prison somewhere.There is a possibility that George Vidler was alreadfy married-1871 census has a George and Mary Vidler age 24 from St George's instrument maker children George 5 and Matilda 3 months.
Will look more into Herbert's various possible father's.
Ciderdrinker
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Me again
George Charles Baker baptised 2.7.1854 St Mathew Bethnal Green to George and Jane Elizabeth Baker wheelwright Old Samuel St. .
1871 a groom aged 19 at 73 Lyall Mews West witha possible sister Emily Sarah 16 housemaid.
1881 married 29 painter Blenheim Terrace ,no one else in household.
After that he just disappears.So in theory George Charles Baker and Mary Ann nee Drew split up c 1881 and she moves back to her parents.He goes wherever but she still married can't remarry but by 1888 is with George Vidler butcher and it looks like small time crook.
William ,Edwin and Eliza look like Mr Baker 's children and Gertrude and down are Mr Vidler's which leaves Margaret and Herbert .
William Henry could be the first names of their father,with a drifferent surname or just someone Bertie remembered growing up with.If he remembered his grandfather John then maybe his mother came up with a different name ,which doesn't explain why she just didin't name George Charles Baker.
Ciderdrinker
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WOW!
Thanks for all this information! This is getting more and more fascinating! Herbert Henry's grandsons (aged 50 and 54) are going to be fascinated! I did warn them that things could be a bit involved! And they are!
I am just trying to process all this info - by writing it out in a 'tree' for myself. I am sure I will have more questions. Many thanks for the illuminating facts and conjectures so far.....
Could anyone find a possible birth record for Mary Ann Drew? Her age does flucuate a bit on the censuses! There's a Mary Ann Drew born Dec period Whitechapel 1853 - do you think that could be her?
And could I also ask your opinions on Edwin J Drew aged 11 months in the 1871 census born Whitechapel, living with Mary Ann Drew and John and Eliza (grandparents)? I can't find any record of an Edwin Drew on the BMD index being born at the right time - even a 'male' Drew. And he doesn't seem to be in the 1881 census (the other Edwin J Drew is aged 4 on this 1881 census so it can't be him!). I can't find a death record for him either.
thanks again - now 'processing' - I will return!
Descendant of Murby (and I thought my family was complicated!)
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Hi
By the way,.... on the subject of George Vidler(s) - the George Vidler, instrument maker, aged 24 with wife Mary and children is George Vidler SENIOR - eg the father of George Vidler the butcher (who shacked up with Mary Ann DREW). I think! Little George, aged 5 on this 1871 census, is our butcher boy (I think, as the ages and place of birth stack up, as he was born in c. 1866 and is about 35 ish in the 1901 census). The family still seems to be together with George and Mary and children (including George Vidler the butcher aged 15) in Tarling Street, St George in the East. So, perhaps the felon is another George Vidler - it certainly isn't Mary Ann's George the butcher as he is only about 4 in 1870 when one of the offences was committed. That's a bit of a shame as I was quite excited by a felon in the family - but doesn't seem likely does it!
D of M
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Hi
Another question:
I agree that the 3 kids listed in the 1881 census, William, Edwin and Eliza - look like they must be Mary Ann and George Baker's kids - but why are they registered as DREWS? It seems like they are on the BMD index - William Drew born Whitechapel 1874, Edwin John DREW born Mile End, 1877 and Eliza Adelaide DREW born 1880 in Mile End. Why would she do this do you think? Just wondering? Was it because she realised things with George Baker weren't going anywhere.....?
D of M
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Good Morning
Yes you're right about William,Edwin and Eliza ,I hadn't looked up their birth registration.
Looking at it ,there's a baptism for Edwin John Drew to John and Mary 26/8/1877 at St Jude's Bethnal Green with John a commercial traveller Charlotte St..And as you say George Baker must have gone from the scene by the time William was born in 1874.So it seems that all the older children must have the same Dad but not George Baker(there are no deaths for Geogre Charles Baker but there is a George Baker died June 1874 St Saviour age 24 ).
The school records show
William Drew born May 1874 admitted to Turin Street School 30.1.1883 father John Drew 1 Fleet St Hill.
Edwin Drew born 7.8.1878 (which I know is out)admitted Lower Chapman St 30.11.1885 from 10 mary St parent Mary Ann.
Strangely I can't find admissions for the rest or and Vidler children at all on school admissions.
I did have a look for the other Edwin J Drew but no luck.He can't be Edwin's son because he already had a son Edwin in 1867 who's alive and well on the 1891.So must be one of the daughter's.
As for Mary Ann Drew I think you have the right one there as it fits with her marriage ,death and the 1871 census.
Can I just ask which site you found the Drew's on in 1861 because I'm using Ancestry and I've piled through the index ,even using first names and can't find them?
Ciderdrinker
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Hi Ciderdrinker
Thanks again for all your help and comments. Very much appreciated.
Just a quick message as I am away for a week now and wanted to thank you before I go. I have just checked the 1861 census and no, I can't find them. So I think I must have got mixed up... what with all my searches. I have found a Mary Ann Drew born c, 1851 in Stepney Limehouse but I can't 'click into' her. This is on Genes Reunited. But I can't find John or Eliza or any of the other children you found. This is frustrating as it would be good to see who is 'around' in the Drew family at this time. I don't know where they can have got to! If you have any luck finding them, please let me know. I will be back on line in a week or so.
Thanks again.
Descendant of Murby
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Just seen there's an Eliza Edwards born in 1813 (place not named) living in Whitechapel Mile End New Town on Genes Reunited 1861 - do you think this could be her? Remembering she seems to change her name to Edwards after John Drew dies.... and is Eliza Edwards in 1881. Just a thought. I can't access it but it could be her.....