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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: merlin398 on Saturday 22 September 12 09:30 BST (UK)
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Trying to find birth of Jessie Archibald in 1897. also anything on her parents
Sydney Archibald and Jessie Holland, births deaths or wedding.
jessie A. married in Dumbarton 1916.Both parents deceased?
all were actors,
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Hi Merlin
No guarantee parents were married at the time of Jessie's birth unfortunately. Archibald and Holland could also be variations of parents' actual names too given their acting profession.
From your other postings here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,602310.0.html, this is the family and husband of Jessie Jnr? www.camichaelfh.ukfamilies.com/mvow/fam/fam9924.html From this info, Jessie died in England which is a pity in that does you cannot reconfirm Jessie's parents' details from a Scottish death cert.
No info is there that she was born in Scotland (or parents) is there? I can see why though you are looking around everywhere given there is nothing to be found so far for her early years :-\
Monica
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No marriage showing for her parents in Scotland
Can't see Sydney on 1901 census either
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Can't see deaths in Scotland either
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A chink of light, but as always, more work and info needed to be found ::)
Getting nowhere so far on daughter Jessie, however.....
Following on the idea of Sydney Archibald and Jessie Holland may not have been married...there is a parish entry for the christening of a Sydney Holland in South Lambeth All Saints on 29 Jan 1897. The mother of this Sydney shows as a Jessie Holland, no occupation for the mother was included. The address given for this Jessie Holland is the same as that given for another entry above, also for an illegitimate birth (41 Jeffries Road, Lambeth) so maybe this was a place for unmarried mothers to have their babies? Don't know, just guessing.
A leap (of faith?!) to the 1901 census and this entry in Raunds, Northamptonshire (RG13/1454/35/61):
Arthur Adams 24
Ellen Adams 23
Winnifred A Adams 2
Frederick C Adams 1 Month
Frederick S Archbold 42, married, actor b. Shotley; Bridge, Yorkshire
Sydney H Archbold 5, boarder b. London
Robert Wakefield 28, boarder
S middle name maybe Sydney and H middle name maybe Holland...
Frederick shows as married above. Maybe young Jessie is with mother somewhere together?
Monica :)
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Hi,
SP has the following births for Jessie Archibald 1897.
1897 ARCHIBALD JESSIE F ST CYRUS /KINCARDINE
1897 ARCHIBALD JESSIE F OLD OR WEST KILPATRICK/DUNBARTON
1897 ARCHIBALD JESSIE F COCKPEN /MIDLOTHIAN
Also 17 births in Scotland between 1890-1900
Sharon
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The England and Wales Death Index has info for Jessie Parker, died 1979 Kettering, Northants and gives her birth date as 7/2/1898.
I note the second link provided by Monica states Jessie's birthplace is Haworth, West Yorks ... and there is a private tree on A/try (tree named vi163) that gives her birthplace as Hawick, Roxburgh.
NB: the forename Jessie can be used interchangeably with forenames Janet/Jane/Jean.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?561
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I note the second link provided by Monica states Jessie's birthplace is Haworth, West Yorks ...
Which one is that, Gali :P Tired head now with looking for them all!
Monica
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This one ... sorry ... confusing!
http://www.camichaelfh.ukfamilies.com/mvow/fam/fam9924.html
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sorry...thank you ;D
Can't see any Hawick/Rox. births within a range for Holland or Arch*bald on SP (no first name), so maybe the Haworth, West Yorks info is the way to proceed?
Monica
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Thanks everyone. I've been searching for years and I think its hopeless now. Some dark secret, and they have covered up so well.
Jessie jnr was my grandmother and a lovely lady.
Merlin398
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Could be worth an email to Dumbarton Archives? Might have been something in the local newspaper advertising visiting ?theatre groups or music hall players in Alexandria?
http://www.nls.uk/collections/newspapers/indexes/details.cfm?id=81
Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert (?usually two) - have you been able to locate them?
What was Jessie's address on the marriage cert?
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http://www.msheppard.com/tdeaths3.htm
The list in the above page gives a 1912 death for a "Jessie Holland", but also shows she was a Mrs Leland Jones.
If they were all actors, could the names you have been working with be stage names ??
Regards
Malky
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1901 census Shotts Lanark
Leland Jones, Actor, aged 38, born England
Jessie Jones, Actress, aged 25, born England
Jessie Jones, aged 3, born 1898 England
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All that last info looks so promising ;)
So far, what are we thinking... ::)
A Jessie Holland had at least 2 children with a (Frederick) Sydney Arch(i)bold. Possibly a son Sydney Holland, born in 1897 Lambeth London, and a Jessie Holland born in early 1898 (location to be confirmed but likely England).
We have found a possible for young Sydney with his father a Frederick S Archbold actor, in 1901.
Also now found in Lanarkshire, for 1901, is a possible entry for a married Jessie Holland, with a daughter Jessie b. England in 1898 (which fits with what we thought) but married to someone else, a Leland Jones, another actor.
That all kind of works for me in my head ;D How to make the definite links though....
Monica
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Your all stars. that all fits together and I was about to throw in the towel
after 5 years. Can't thankyou enough
Merlin398
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FreeBMD has a death for a Jessie Jones, aged 35 in Easington, Durham in Jan/Feb/Mar 1912 ... looks the most likely I can find for Jessie Holland/Mrs Leland Jones
NB: Leland Jones, Actor/Manager, born 1864 Sunderland, on 1891 census married to Sarah Jones, daughter Jane, aged 8, in Beamish.
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What was Jessie's address and occupation on her marriage certificate?
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My Gran used the stage name Jessie Jones!
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Possible birth from Free BMD birth for:
Jessie Archbold, Jan/Feb/Mar 1898, Gateshead, Durham
... to continue the North East connection?
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I saw that birth for a possible one for Jessie and liked it particulary because of the spelling of ARCHBOLD ( without the vowel in the middle). This was the spelling for the entry for the Frederick S Archbold and son Sydney in 1901 in Raunds.
Monica
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In Gateshead Durham in September 1900, a Leland Jones was granted a two months theatrical licence for a portable building.
I've no experience at all in theatre research :-\ There are mentions for a Leland Jones in 'The Era' newspaper throught the 1890s related to the theatre. Different locations, so maybe they worked by licence to form temporary theatres in various places?
Can't see a marriage between Leland and Jessie as yet (could he still have been married to the Jane you mentioned, Gali?).
Monica
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thanks, you've cracked it in one day.
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Unable to find Jessie on 1911 census ???
Also unable to find anything further about Frederick S Archbold although it looks from The Stage Yearbook 1908 that maybe he died before this date as there is a Sydney Herbert Archbold being cared for by the Actors' Orphanage Fund
http://www.archive.org/stream/stageyearbo1908londuoft/stageyearbo1908londuoft_djvu.txt
Merlin398 ... if you want to try to find out more about the careers of these people you could subscribe to:
https://archive.thestage.co.uk/Default/Skins/TheStage/Client.asp?Skin=TheStage&enter=true&AppName=2&AW=1348343297093
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Jessie looks so pretty there, Merlin - how old was she then?
Gali, that is great info. So, likely the H as a middle initial was not for Holland...the problem with guesses, eh :P I wonder, Merlin, whether from Gali's info, you could contact the Actors' Orphanage Fund (now known as The Actors' Charitable Trust www.tactactors.org/history.html) and check what records there may be for both Sydney and maybe Jessie (if mother Jessie died in 1912)?
Merlin, I agree totally with Gali's suggestion regarding getting access to 'The Stage' archives database. For you, with your family's profession, I think you could lose a few months there going through their extensive records! I have had access in the past to it and their archives are extensive.
I too have tried to find either of the two Jessies in 1911 and failed so far...
Monica :)
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thanks for all your help, unsure of her age in any pics. Hers a photo with the Fortescue Players
she's seated far left, my Grandad standing back row 4th from left
Merlin
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Great photos you have, Merlin :)
Lots there to be followed up. Can I ask you something? When you have made some headway, can you come back and let us know? We stay forever curious here on RC and nothing better than to get updates on the stories :)
Monica
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sure I will keep you posted. this is Jessie holding my mum also Jessie Parker about 1917 ish
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Great collection of photos :) Three Jessie's in a row (I have a slight bias to that name given it is also my daughter's ;)).
Monica
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Wonder whether mother and daughter were still in Scotland for 1911?
They don't seem to be linked on the searches (when you can use a second name search in the household). However, if they were lodging, they wouldn't be linked in this way for the search.
On the 1911 Scottish census there are these two entries - the key thing here linking the entries will be the ref no.:
Jessie Jones, 37 Ayr Ayrshire. Ref 578/01 031/00 008
Jessie Jones, 14 Ayr Ayrshire. Ref 578/01 031/00 008
Might be worth checking?
Monica
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Hi Monica,
I already checked that census return you found but no luck, elder Jessie born Auchentiber, younger Jessie born Riccarton so unlikely to be the ladies in question ... elder Jessie no occupation, younger Jessie the second of four children.
I wondered if they had already moved south, if Jessie (elder) died in early 1912 in ?Easington then census would have been taken less than a year beforehand ... they remain elusive for me though.
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Could try GRO ref: 256/00 003/00 002, two Jessie Archibalds in Durris, Kincardine, younger Jessie aged 13, older Jessie 36
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Durris Kincardine doesn't immediately strike as threatre land does it Gali ;D
So many missing players, in censuses and bmds!
I think I can see Frederick S(ydney?) Archbold with family in earlier censuses with his family (going by that 1901 birth place ref alone), you have found a likely entry for Leland Jones also with family in 1891.
It's everything else in between that is proving tricky! A death for Jessie Holland as Jessie Jones in 1912 would fit with what shows on that 1916 marriage entry. So would the possible reference to young Sydney receiving assitance in 1908, if father had died around this time. This would support both parents showing as deceased by 1916 and the marriage of young Jessie.
Tricky but as always challenging! I know Merlin, you have spent five years plus banging head on this... ;)
Monica
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;D
My first thought about Durris too but then I decided that Durris is as much theatre land as Shotts, Lanarkshire and Raunds, Nottinghamshire!
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The Arts know no boundaries, you are right! They could be anywhere. Just been checking Ireland....
Monica
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Only 13 miles from Aberdeen so could have been cheaper lodgings
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Looking at all options aren't we. You are right Sancti, not too far from the bright lights of...
Worked not too long ago on a threatre posting here on RC (by RedMystic). Fascinating life, although not always easy, these performers had in this period.
Monica
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Sydney Archibald was in "Babes in the Wood" at Kingston, London,on Boxing Day 1899 according to "The Era".
flst
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update at last. Found Sydney Herbert Archbold living in Perth. WA. Married with 6 children. He lived until 1963. Turned out OK for him after a poor start in life.
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;) Well done for keeping on the search.
Nice of to think of him happy with family in a lovely warm place!
Monica