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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: heathgirl on Friday 21 September 12 21:01 BST (UK)
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I am still searching for the parents of a Sarah Burden who was baptized to William and Martha at St. George in East, Mdlsx in 1822. I have that citation.William was a Biscuit Baker at her baptism and on Sarah's marriage certificate to Wm Fred Cross (not a Baker). Doesn't indicate he is deceased. Her mother Martha's surname is unknown. I cannot find signs of these two parents of Sarah Burden, before or after her baptism, or their own marriage, but they were likely born between 1790 and 1800. I am also looking for Sarah Burden born 1822 on the census in 1841, at which point she might have been out on her own in London and was not yet married.There is a further connection with bakers, as Sarah's sister Elizabeth Burden married a Biscuit Baker, James Wooldridge. Any suggestions about William Burden, Biscuit Baker, and Martha his wife are appreciated.
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What addresses did the two sisters wed from?
What names witness each event?
Where was Elizabeth in 1841?
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Elizabeth was on "Broad Street", St. George in the East in 1841, with husband James, a Baker, and two children, Elizabeth and James Wooldridge. I do not see anyone I know to be related or Burdens on that page with them.
I have to look at my tree to find the other answers and will write back shortly.
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Hi could Martha be on HO107/696/ 1/14 / 20 In St George in the East?
Keyboard86
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Do you have Martha on 1841 - she's a 40 yr old laundress living in Charles Sq, St Georges in the East with James Wooldridge the Baker (presumably the son in law)
HO107 696 14 20
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Hi
1851 census HO107 1479 579
Has Sarah and her husband and family with Sarah's brother William born St George in the East aged 31, a blacksmith and widower with a 5 month old son William Richard. On William's marriage 3rd February 1850 his father is not recorded as deceased which isn't evidence he wasn't since it was merely the custom of some officials to add this extra information which wan't asked for on the certificate. William remarried 20th August 1854 and on that marriage father William is recorded as deceased.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you, I shall look at that census. It absolutely suggests that is the Martha who is Sarah's mother. Re Eliz Burden: baptized 1817, living Jones Rents. Married 1837, don't have a cert. It is in Pallott's index, for Hackney, to James Wooldridge, no GRO available. 1851-lived at 3 Charles St., Tower Hamlets, with James, a Baker. 1861 - don't have. 1871 - a widow at 47 Old Gravel Lane. Dtr Harriet Cocksedge is there, married to a Baker who is not present. Elizabeth might have died Jul 1879 age 62, St. George in the East. Sarah married 6 Aug 1849, living Victoria Rd. Father Wm a Baker, not mentioned as deceased, at St. Peter, Pimlico, St. George Hanover Square. Witnesses William Walton and Mary Ann Cross, relationships unknown.1851 at 2 Lower Garden Street with her Cross family and her brother Wm Burden (he is widowed). LIved at 2 Maidenhead court 1861, St. George in the East, or Wapping. LIved 2 Church Court, St. George in the East until near the end of 1800's. She and husband Wm Cross moved to clothworkers almshouses in Islington by 1891, where they died. Brother William Frederick Burden born 1820 appears to have been baptized St. Leonard's to William Burden and Sarah, not Martha, in 1833, though Martha might have used both names, no street address (IGA). He married July quarter 1854 as a widower to Sarah Plackett, I think. I do not have that marriage cert. He lived at 40 Old Gravel Lane Oil Shop, blacksmith on 1881, 1891 censuses, 1901 he seems still in vicinity of Old Gravel at Rainers model mansions but says he is an accountant. Sorry for the long note. Thanks for the assistance. Janice
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we are crossing over. Thank you all for such speed.On William's marriages, is there mention of his father being a baker?
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For those of you following, are there burials of Martha Burden abt 1854 and Wm Burden senior between 1850 and 1854?
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I am confused as now that I view the actual page I do see Martha Burden with James Wooldridge born 1816 (age 25) baker, same page, in 1841, but also there is a different page 1841 with Elizabeth and James Wooldridge (age 29) baker, and their two children. Martha is on Charles square, and Elizabeth and James Wooldridge at Gloucester st.
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Sorry, I think it was Broad street for the latter James.
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A further piece of information that may relate to William Burden: I did find a baptism to Thomas and Martha Burden 12 Sept 1796 at St. Anne Limehouse. I do not know if these were his parents, the father was a caulker.
However Limehouse was the site of some Ship Biscuit Works and bakers for this cause. I learned this today - perhaps making it a little more likely.
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Hi
William Burden junior, no evidence on his marriages he had a middle name, married first 3rd February 1850 St Mark's Goodman Fields, Maria Elizabeth Allen.
He married secondly 20th August 1854 St James the Great Bethnal Green to Sarah Thwaites. Both wives were spinsters on their marriages. On both marriages William junior was a blacksmith and William senior was a biscuit baker on the first marriage and just recorded as deceased on the second.
William junior was baptised St George in the East 28th November 1819 born 3rd August, parents William and Martha, Jones'? Rents, father's occupation biscuit maker.
There is no evidence William senior was alive at the time of any of his children's marriages. Once civil registration started 1st July 1837 there was no question on the certificate that requested information on whether a father was living or deceased just his name and occupation. Some officials included this additional information but many did not as it wasn't a requirement. In 1854 the information was included on William junior's second marriage but by then his father could have been dead for many years.
The 1841 census usually rounded down adult ages, those over 15, to the nearest 5, so if accurate the age of the Martha Burden found living in the parish of St George in the East in 1841 would be anywhere between 40 and 44, giving a birth possibility as early as circa 1796/7. Martha is with William Wooldridge aged 25 a baker on this census, not James. Enumeration was supposed to be where you were census night and bakers who were night workers could be enumerated at their place of work so the lack of a William Burden does not mean necessarily he was dead by 1841.
A William Robert Wooldridge of 17 Charles Square, a biscuit baker, married at St George in the East 13th June 1841, father James a biscuit baker. There is a marriage of a James Wooldridge and a Mary Great in 1808 at St George in the East. Robert William Wooldridge was baptised in the same parish in 1818 with the same parents, father's occupation biscuit baker.
There is an earlier baptism in the St George in the East registers
11th October 1812 born 18th September
Martha Sarah Burden parents William and Martha, Silver Street, father's occupation baker
Regards
Valda
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Thank you Valda for such a complete answer and for clearing up my question about that late baptism of their son. I was aware of the first birth you mention but thought Martha was too young, now I realize she is quite possibly their daughter. no doubt there were other children who died before baptism.
I did make a mistake about the first name of Wooldridge with Martha and i am still surprised I didn't see him initially. It has occurred to me that Martha might have been a relation of the Wooldridges herself. It goes to show a new set of eyes can make all the difference. The death cert of Martha Burden may at least tell me if she was a widow, which I think may have been the case many years. I have not found their marriage though. Thanks to everyone who has replied. Janice
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I am still looking for the 1861 census for relatives and wonder if the records for Old Gravel Lane St. George in the East are simply missing. Based on earlier and later censuses I would expect to find William Burden, born 1819, Martha Burden born 1796-1800, Elizabeth Wooldridge (nee Burden and William Burden's sister) born 1817, and her family, and possibly William Burden's son William Michael Burden, born 1850, all at St. George in the East. The other explanation is that there was some trouble in the family and they have changed location, possibly Kent, or Cornwall temporarily. William Burden born 1850 is working as a footman in Cornwall in 1871, while The Burdens and Wooldridges are back at Old Gravel Lane by then. Anyone know if this might be a case of a missing census. I have also been trying to check Old Bailey online records for Wooldridge and Burden in the 1860's but can't get through to the search point so a link might be helpful.
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Hi again, their are known problems in 1861 in areas of London of "Missing pages" I can only assume your family are amongst the lost pages or badly transcribed?
Keyboard86
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Hi
A part of Old Gravel Lane on the 1861 census is missing but it looks like most of the census for the lane exists.
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:St_George_in_the_East_Registration_District,_1861_Census_Street_Index_M-O
Regards
Valda
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Thank you both. I wish I had been smart enough to figure this out before! they were probably all living between 40 and 47 Old Gravel Lane in 1861. Bullseye! missing. Much better than thinking they were in prison! J
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Re Martha Burden supposedly age 40 on the 1841 census, I believe I now have her death certificate, issued 9 March 1854 occurring at 18 Charles Square St. George in the East. She was 68 years then, thus born 1786, and she was the widow of John Burden, a Biscuit Baker. Since Wm Robert Wooldridge lived at 17 Charles Square when he married 13 June 1841, it would seem likely this Martha might indeed be the mother of Elizabeth Burden, who had married a Wooldridge (biscuit baker).The difficulty is Martha should be the widow of William Burden not John Burden, as the baptism of Elizabeth gave her father's name as William. on the chance he may have been using both John and William as first name, I now am searching for any sort of lead on a John Burden or perhaps a John "William" Burden, a biscuit baker who was definitely deceased by 8 March 1854 and who was likely born about 1786 as well. I might add Mary Ann Ross of 5 Spencer Street St. George in the East was present at Martha's death. Any suggestions or hints for this search are welcome.