RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mrs_Pearce on Friday 21 September 12 13:22 BST (UK)
-
Hello,
I am looking to find the details on Samuel Pearce, father James Pearce.
Samuel Pearce was born abt 1831, St Pancras, London. He married Catharine Etherington in 1852 in Hoxton, Middlesex. They had at least 3 children & apparently she was a widow in the 1861 census.
Thankful for any information. :)
-
Hi
1851 census but see my comments below
James Pearce 43 bootmaker b Shenley
Martha ??49 b Shenley
James 14 b Shenley
Samuel 12 b St Pancras **********
On the 1852 marriage cert - father James is shown as a bootmaker but if this age is right - it can't be the same Samuel as he would only have been 13 in 1852
Samuel is shown as full age and Catherine as 19
EDIT - see my reply below - wrong family
-
There’s a possible baptism for a Samuel Pearce at St Clement Danes Middlesex 03/09/1833 father James, mother Charlotte.
Best wishes
Maria :)
-
Re: my 1851 above - found in 1841 and as he is only 2yrs old so clearly the wrong family
Samuel Pearce was born abt 1831, St Pancras, London
Where did this information come from?
-
St.Marylebone 4/8/1833 Bapt.
Catherine Etherington born 5/10/1832? parents Edward & Sarah 25 James Street Cheesemonger
Christ Church Hoxton 11/1/1852
Samuel Pearce bach. Engineer 57 Huntingdon Street father James Pearce Boots & Shoes
Catherine Etherington spin. 19 same address father Edward Etherington Cheesemonger
Witnesses Edward & Susan Etherington
2/9/1867 St.Mary Newington
George Pearce wid. Surgeon father John Pearce Gentleman
Catherine Pearce widow father Edward Etherington Cheesemonger
both of Wellington Street
Witnesses Henry William West & Alice Pearce
Jennifer
-
Hi
On Samuel's marriage in 1852 Catherine was aged 19, but Samuel was of full age so 21+
He was an engineer on his marriage and on his two daughters' baptisms (the younger many years later).
Possibility on the 1851 census
1851 census HO107 1512 folio 272
St Clement Danes
James Pearce 60 Head Married Cordwainer St Leonard Shoreditch
Charlotte Pearce 60 Wife Married Christ Church Surrey
Samuel Pearce 24 Son Dye Sinker St Giles Cripplegate
Difficult to read Samuel's father James' occupation on his marriage but it looks like boot maker which would be consistent with this 1851 census entry.
Regards
Valda
-
Hi
1841 census HO107 731 Bk7 Folio 30
6 Gilbert Street St Clement Danes Westminster
James Pearce 50 Cordwainer not born in county
Charlotte Pearce 50 born in county
Thomas Pearce 15 born in county
Samuel Pearce 14 born in county
Adult ages, those over 15 were usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.
Possible second marriage for Thomas 5th June 1856 St Leonard Shoreditch to Sarah Gray.
Regards
Valda
-
Thank you for this information so far.
I am tracing back to Samuel & Catherine (Etherington) Pearce from their son, Samuel Henry Pearce (b. abt 1856) who travelled to Australia with wife & son, about 1886.
On Samuel Henry Pearce's marriage to Ellen Rendell (1884), his father is listed as Samuel Pearce, Civil Engineer.
So far I have been unable to find them on the 1861 Census & have found a death for Samuel Pearce, Dec 1862 but am unsure if this is the correct Samuel Pearce. I also have Catherine re-marrying George Pearce in 1867 & have found them in the 1871 Census, as well as the 1891 Census where Catherine's mother, Sarah Etherington is living with them.
There are so many Samuel Pearce's, I appreciate any help in sorting out which is our one.
:)
-
Hi
1861 census RG9 231 folio 118
49 Curtain Road Shoreditch
Edward Etherington 51 Head Married Cheesemonger ? Sussex
Sarah Etherington 50 Wife Married Hoxton Middlesex
Cathe Pearce 28 Daughter Widow Dressmaker Marylebone Middlesex
Alice Pearce 8 Granddaughter Hoxton Middlesex
Cathe Pearce 6 Granddaughter Hoxton Middlesex
Henry Pearce 5 Grandson ? Middlesex
Mary Pearce 3 Granddaughter Southwark Surrey
Mary the youngest child's age and Catherine's widowhood gives the possible years for Samuel's death.
There are two Samuel Pearce deaths registered in Southwark. One in 1856 and one in 1857 both September quarters, St George Southwark and St Olave Southwark. Mary's birth in Southwark doesn't of course mean Samuel died in Southwark but you have to start somewhere. This early the death register doesn't give ages at death. Neither death registration might be the correct one. The family could have returned to Middlesex (crossing the river Thames) before Samuel died. It can be a very expensive business sending for death certificates in the London area if there is nothing more to go on.
There are two Mary Pearce birth registrations both in St Saviour Southwark
Mary Jane 1857 and Mary Ann 1858 both December quarters. There doesn't seem to be baptisms for the two youngest children to help with their date of births.
Regards
Valda
-
Mary Jane Pearce is 23 born Southwark and visiting her Etherington grandparents in 1881 at Wellington Street Newington.
Jennifer
-
Hi
In addition to Valda's list, a possibility? . . . . .
1860 Dec Samuel John Pearce Berrmondsey 1d 64
Ray
-
Hi
No indication from the records so far, his marriage, his two daughters' baptisms and what looks to be his own baptism that Samuel had a second name.
Regards
Valda
-
How do you know his mothers name was Etherington if you do not have his birth certificate?
Jennifer
-
Oh my, you people are GREAT!
Thank you Valda, the 1861 census you found would definately be spot on!
I would also guess that Mary Jane Pearce b. dec quarter 1857 would be the one with Jennifer's find in the 1881 census when Mary was visiting her grandparents :D
YAY. One step closer.
Jennifer, I have Samuel Henry's death certificate (he died in Australia, 1896) :)
Being that Mary was born end of 1857, maybe Samuel Pearce did die in the Sep quarter in 1857. How sad he possibly never met his daughter! Not to mention poor Catharine being a single mum by the time she was 28.
Do you think we can assume that Samuel's mother was Charlotte?
-
Hi
You can never assume, you have to decide whether you have sufficient evidence. Researching James and Charlotte further and Samuel's siblings may confirm completely it is the correct family.
Regards
Valda
-
I wonder if you could tell me how close St Clement Danes is to Hoxton Christ Church?? Seeing as the 1851 census would have Charles living with Mum & Dad in 1851 at St Clement Danes & the following year Charles married Catherine at Hoxton Christ Church.
Would this have been a likely scenario back then?????
Cheers :)
-
Have found a marriage of James Pearce & Charlotte Prater Cooke 6/1/1812 St Dunstan & All Saints Stepney
Witnesses Samuel & Sarah Smith.
21/4/1813 Rotherhithe bapt.
Charlotte Pearce - parents James & Charlotte Prater- Clarence Street- Shoemaker
25/6/1816 St.Leonards Shoreditch
James Pearce- James & Charlotte - New Inn Yard - Shoemaker
St.Giles without Cripplegate 28/1/1818 born 15/1/1818
Mary Ann Sarah Pearce James & Charlotte - Moor Lane - Cordwainer
Checked out Charlotte Prater Cooke on line and found a tree with all these on there plus they have added Thomas & Samuel from the 1851 census- but no proof to back them up.
Jennifer
-
Hi
Probably around 2 miles.
By tradition marriages took place in the bride's parish. To avoid the cost of banns being called in both parishes one usually moved to the other parish if not already resident there for the required three weeks.
Hoxton was the adjacent parish to Shoreditch where James Pearce was born. Samuel was born in the City of London (now called the square mile) then surrounded by Middlesex and Surrey across the river Thames - at St Giles Cripplegate. Shoreditch borders the City. St Clement Danes is in Westminster. The Pearce family appear to have moved from Shoreditch - son James baptised there 25th June 1816 born 25th July 1815, to St Giles Cripplegate where Mary Ann Sarah was baptised 28th January 1818 and at some point to Westminster since Thomas was baptised at St Clement Danes 29th May 1833 and Samuel who would be a late baptism if it is him 3rd September 1833.
The population of the London area was often transient moving from parish to parish following work and better opportunities. Their rented accommodation mirroring how each family was placed that week/month/year.
Try this map
http://maps.familysearch.org/
Regards
Valda
-
St.Peters Walworth 1/1/1844
George Wortham Pearce Surgeon 4 Surrey Place father John Pearce Gentleman
Emlin Wevill father John Wevill Clerk
Witnesses Alice Smith & Robert?
St.Pancras Parish Church 23/7/1870
Charles Alexander Hurrelll Commercial.clerk
Alice Etherington Pearce minor father Samuel Pearce Engineer deceased.
Marriage allegation as she was a minor shows she was 18 names George Wortham Pearce as her father but crossed through.
1891 census
Emlin Pearce mar. 69 born Lambeth St.Olave Workhouse
Death Emlin Pearce born c.1824 died 1893 aged 69
Jennifer
-
Will - George Wortham Pearce 23 Poyton Road Tottenham dies 20/4/1900 Left £49 to Herbert John Pearce
Jennifer
-
Alice Etherington Pearce born 1/10/1852 bapt. 23/10/1852 Christchurch Hoxton
parents Samuel & Catherine address 57 Huntingdon Street occ. Engineer
Jennifer
-
1861 census 4 West Street Newington
Emlin Pearce 38 wife of Revenue Officer Born Lambeth
Walter Wortham Pearce 16 Newington
Catherine 11 Colyton Devon
Herbert 9 Colyton
Rebecca Wevill 67 Motherinlaw Blackfriars
1871 104 Rutons? Road Bermondsey
Emlin Pearce 48 mar. Surrey
Herbert 19
Rebecca Wevill 77 mother
Jennifer
-
1851 census Colyton Devon
George Pearce 35 married Inland Revenue Officer born Barrington Cambridge
No sign of family?
Jennifer
-
1871 5 St.Thomas Road Camberwell
George W Pearce 44 master shirt maker emp 3 women Barrington Cambs
Catherine 38 wife Marylebone
Catherine E 16 Hoxton
Samuel H 15 Lithograph printers boy Bethnal Green
Jennifer
-
By 1881 they are in Tottenham at 23 Poyton Road
George is now 52 and a Portrait Artist born Barrington
Catherine 48 Marylebone
1891 still in Poyton Road with Catherine & her mother
George W is now 60 and a House Agent & Collector still born Barrington.
He should have been called Jack, as he was certainly a Jack of all trades!
Jennifer
-
George Pearce bapt. Barrington Cambridgeshire 20/7/1823
John Wortham Pearce bapt. 7/8/1814 Barrington
Wm.Wortham Pearce bapt. 23/7/1820 Barrington
Parents John & Charlotte Pearce
Jennifer
-
Thank you for that location information Valda :D that & the map has helped A LOT!
Jennifer - seriously you kick butt lol I had seen those census for george pearce & thought i must've had the wrong one, he certainly seemed to be a man of many skills 8)
Hmmm I wonder if there are any records as far back as the late 1700's, because now I'm wondering if Samuel Pearce & George W Pearce are possibly cousins?????
Genealogy - never answers, just more questions sometimes lol
-
It looks possible he was still married to Emlin when he married Catherine!!
Jennifer
-
I just noticed that - hmmm he may have been a bit shifty! Makes you wonder why he was such a jack of all trades?
Poor Emlin! I wonder if she ever knew he "remarried".
-
She sticks to her status as married through her life, as though gone but will not be forgotton.
Also he moves from South of the Thames to North London, perhaps to put miles between anybody that may know him. He is missing right from the 1861 census with Emlin, so could have disappeared long enough for people not to know?
I still wonder about the Surgeon occupation?
Jennifer
-
Charlotte Wortham bapt 25/1/1792 Royston parents George & Louisa
married John Pearce Fen Stanton Huntingdon 21/5/1811
two possible bapt. for John
John Pearce bapt 1/5/1788 Barrington Cambridgeshire parents William & Rebecca
John Pearce Bat. 15/12/1782 " " " James & Mary
All in the right area
Jennifer
-
Hi
Barrington Cambridgeshire and Shoreditch where James Pearce was born circa 1790 are just over 50 miles apart. So any connection to Cambridgeshire would have to be through James' father a generation before, so approximately 1760-1770 birth. From that possible birth in Cambridgeshire and move to the London area, the two potential family lines would have to stay in touch for what appears to be a bigamous marriage in 1867 a hundred years later reconnecting them. Families in villages do stay connected over long periods of time because of their close proximity but it is much rarer for family lines over longer distances to remain in touch for this length of time with all the deaths in between that must have occurred. Not impossible but it is a big gap and this is the London area with a very large population and a not particularly unusual surname in the mix. The 1851 census shows over 2,000 Pearces living in the county of Middlesex.
One tree online states James' parents as Nathaniel 1769-1847 and Elizabeth born circa 1776. There is a James Pearce baptism in 1792 to these parents but in Holborn not Shoreditch. James on censuses gives an age that would fit for a birth circa 1789/1790. There is a baptism of a James Pearce at St Leonard Shoreditch 26th December 1790 born 26th November parents James and Ann of Hoxton Town. There are 4 other baptisms of children to a James and Ann Pearce at St Leonard's.
Regards
Valda
-
Thank you for all this information.
Where would the best chance of finding a transcript of Samuel's birth record?? & a way of confirming when James & Charlotte's marriage was? I would imagine James' marriage would have his father's details on it for a starting point to confirm these details??
:D You people really are a godsend
Regards
-
Hi
Civil registration began 1st July 1837. From then on father's names and occupations were required on the new format of marriage registers. Between 1754 and 1st July 1837 marriage registers had a different format which required the name and status (bachelor, spinster etc) of those marrying, their parish of residency for the last three weeks, whether the marriage was by banns or licence, their signatures and two witnesses signatures. If they were under age (below 21) and admitted it, then the register should also state they were a minor.
Unless a parish register gives a date of birth and the earlier the record is the less likely that will be, there is no birth record before civil registration only baptismal dates. The baptism in 1833 was indexed on the Family Search website which usually includes a birthdate in the index if one was written in the register. Westminster Archives hold the parish registers for St Clement Danes. Westminster Archives parish registers are being digitalised and placed on the website Find My Past.
Jennifer in her post of 22nd September transcribed a possible marriage entry for Samuel's parents James and Charlotte in 1812 at St Dunstan's Stepney. Both were of the hamlet of Mile End Old Town and were bachelor and spinster. The marriage was by banns. Jennifer included in her post all the other information found in the register except the name of the vicar.
Except for parishes in Westminster in Middlesex and some other individual exceptions the London Metropolitan Archives holds the parish registers of the those parishes in the county of London when it was formed in 1889 as well as the parish registers for the remaining part of the county of Middlesex which eventually became part of Greater London in 1965. The parish registers deposited at the LMA have been digitalised on the Ancestry website.
Regards
Valda