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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: djamesp on Friday 21 September 12 06:15 BST (UK)
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Robert Blackmore, b. Coromandel 26.10.1884, son of Philip and Margaret. An active leader in Coromandel Methodism he became a Home Missionary in 1907, serving at Huntly and Featherston. He was accepted for training for the ministry and in 1911-1912 was appointed to Otaki. In 1912 he married Phyllis Wirth (of the notable circus family) and then disappears altogether. When Phyllis was seeking money from her father's estate in 1938 (per Trove), reference was made to her marriage, and the judge recorded there was absolutely no evidence for Robert being alive beyond 1918. However, the death notice for Robert's sister, Margaret, in 1936 refers to him as her brother with no use of the word 'late'. The Blackmore family were prominent in the Coromandel area from about 1880 until 1940 or so. Does anyone have any light to throw on this missing person. He does not appear in the Cenotaph records, by the way, and the only paperspast records are pre-1st World War.
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There is only this death that seems in the near vicinity of age to your Robert
1945/32426 Blackmore Robert 68Y
There are several private trees on A$ listing Phyllis Marziles/Marizles
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0r95/
Perhaps they note what happened to Robert too?
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Hi djamesp
Did you see this ?
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Auckland Star" - 15 March 1916 - Clergyman and Gunner
... Mr R. BLACKMORE who was once a Wesleyan minister at Huntly ....
~ Lu
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Hi,
There is only this death that seems in the near vicinity of age to your Robert
1945/32426 Blackmore Robert 68Y
The above is buried in Riverton Cemetery .... there is a little info on this Robert. Just for elimination or not.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0r97/
Cheers
KHP
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Hi...
There is an unsourced tree on Mundia saying he died in France in 1916.
http://www.mundia.com/au/Person/7122422/1790452524
Can't find him on CWGC
http://www.cwgc.org/
Regards
Beg
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(@ ancestry) Militia Attestations Index
Royal Garrison Artillery ( R G A )
Robert BLACKMORE
RGA # 53134
Date of Attestation (not very clear) ... 1/10/14 (is written near top of page ?)
Born : New Zealand ... at _________(left blank) ... near to the town of Auckland.
Age: 26 years and 12 days
Occupation: Clerk
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Answers given to some questions :
Q. Are you married ? A. NO
Q. 11. (Service in other "forces" etc. )
A. Yes, New Zealand ? Police
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Hi,
A snippet in the 'Observer' in "The Social Sphere" section, dated 6.4.1912 mentions the engagement of the Reverend R. K. Blackmore of Otaki to Miss Phyllis Wirth of Devonport, Auckland.
Note the second initial for the Reverend.
Minniehaha.
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Hi djamesp
Archives New Zealand (Wellington office) holds the following record.
[I should imagine it is one which is able to be digitised for eventual viewing online -- so you could make a separate request for a volunteer visiting the Wellington Archives, to have this done for you. ]
BLACKMORE - Robert - Sergeant - 157th Seige Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery - No. 53134 -- Years 1919-1919
Link to record >
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22422530
~ Lu
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Hi,
Note the second initial for the Reverend.
Minniehaha.
There is another one with the initial "B" .... Blackmore, Robert B (Rev), NZ Goverment Gazette 1911, page 2779.
Cheers
KHP
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On BDM's this is the nearest birth
1883/5775 Blackmore Robert to Margaret and Philip Henry
exact date of birth 26/10/1882
The birth probably wasn't registered until the new year,so he is 2 years older than you have him
Cheers Janette
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Robert Blackmore, b. Coromandel 26.10.1884, son of Philip and Margaret.
Mmm ... interesting. The birth of Robert, son of Margaret and Philip Henry BLACKMORE, was registered in 1883.
1883 / 5775 - BLACKMORE - Robert
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Maybe the Robert BLACKMORE - (RGA) - tinkered with his age when enlisting in 1914 ?
The attestation details certainly seem to match the man who wrote the letter to Miss STONE back in NZ, in 1916.
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Spotted this death at FREE BDM (UK) ... which could be related ?
DEATHS - JUN - 1919
BLACKMORE - Robert - aged 31 years (bc 1888)
Registered at Kensington
(covering Middlesex/London/Greater London)
[Often in the event of death of a soldier who was serving / or had served, with a British regiment, there was correspondence with the military in the soldier's country of birth.
The record for Robert BLACKMORE # 53134, held at Archives in Wellington, appears to have been generated by the Base Records section (NZ Army), the unit who would have been responsible for dealing with any enquiries. ]
~ Lu
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On BDM's this is the nearest birth
1883/5775 Blackmore Robert to Margaret and Philip Henry
exact date of birth 26/10/1882
The birth probably wasn't registered until the new year,so he is 2 years older than you have him
Cheers Janette
He was born in 1882
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Parents buried at Christ Church Anglican Cemetery (Thames/Coromandel).
Mother, Margaret, died 24 March 1888 (aged 47)
- buried with Philip Henry BLACKMORE (d. 24 December 1892).
(So if Robert BLACKMORE # 53134 - RGA - proves to be the son of above, then certainly some "tinkering" with his year of birth on enlistment. ) ;)
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Spotted this death at FREE BDM (UK) ... which could be related ?
DEATHS - JUN - 1919
BLACKMORE - Robert - aged 31 years (bc 1888)
Registered at Kensington
(covering Middlesex/London/Greater London)
Hi again djamesp
Forget the above (London) death ... I got that one wrong. :D
But some progress. ;)
Hadn't realised that the full military file for Robert BLACKMORE - RGA - # 53134, was viewable @ ancestry ... (somehow I got confused when I saw it was available via another pay-to-view site).
Anyhow, have now waded through the approximately 45 pages of same - (it's repetitious in places and NOT in chronological order. Grrr ! ). ;D
I hope you will be able to get to view it to extract some of the finer points. (If you don't have an ancestry sub. then it may be available on AncestryLibraryEdition ?)
Some snippets to follow .... >
~ Lu
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Robert BLACKMORE - Royal Garrison Artillery - # 53134
Firstly, there are a number of copies of attestation forms on file, giving varying degrees of information.
All include, Robert BLACKMORE - born (in or near, Auckland, NZ) and aged "26 years and 12 days" at time of enlistment (1914). [bc 1888 ]
His service is stated as reckoning from "7/11/1914":
Religion: C of E (though one form, (on Image 53777), states religion as "Catholic" ?? - perhaps a clerical error ? It also confirms he enlisted at Liverpool on 7/11/1914.)
Robert is very much alive in May of 1921 when he returns a form letter to the RGA records depot, acknowledging receipt of a medal. He signs the form as "R. K. BLACKMORE" - dating it, 4 May 1921.
next >
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[It is not until halfway through the file, that the name of Robert's next-of kin becomes apparent. Will add that info. later.]
On file (in Image 53774) is a letter dated "December 20, 1918" sent from "89 Brocklehurst Street, New Cross, SE" to the RGA Records office (- I think it was ? ).
It seeks news of Robert BLACKMORE, saying "he was drafted to France and Serbia at the end of October" and "have not heard of him for 6 weeks".
Signed by "(Miss) Eleanor L. SCUDDER"
[Haven't yet followed up on Miss Scudder to see if she might perhaps be with Robert in later years ?? ]
next >
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The Australian newspaper articles you found at TROVE, concerning Robert's wife - now Mrs Phyllis LINQUIST - make for interesting reading. Most especially, the comment from the Judge "that there was absolutely no evidence for Robert being alive beyond 1918".
The article in the "Mirror" (Perth, WA) - 21 June 1941 - page 4, is also a tad curious. Scrolling down the column to "Killed at War", Phyllis LINQUIST has this to say. "Last saw husband (BLACKMORE) in 1913. He went to war and was reported missing in 1917".
It's possible that Phyllis has made an error with the year (1917) but in 1919 she has engaged solicitors in Auckland to make enquiries.
Letter to Records Officer. RGA Depot, Dover, ENG. - from Devore and Prendergast, Barrister & Solicitors, Auckland - dated 9 April 1919 (received 26 May 1919). [Image 53798]
" .... we are acting for his wife who is concerned as to the whereabouts of her husband - last address, 157 Seige Battery, RGA - RKF??, France. This address was supplied by the officer in charge of your Depot on 15 January 1918."
next >
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Almost a year later, the High Commissioner for New Zealand based in London, is also making enquiries regarding Robert BLACKMORE.
[Image 53783] Reply from the RGA Record Office at Dover (to HC for NZ, London) - dated 23 March 1920.
..."this NCO (Robert BLACKMORE) was demobilized to Class "Z" Army Reserve, with effect from 17/8/1919 and gave his address on demobilization as, 28 St. Thomas Road, Derby".
[As I mentioned, this file is not in chronological order ::) ... but at [Image 53789] there is a copy of an attestation form (- yet another !), AND it has no date ! But scrawled across it's ragged top, are the words "Montreal, Canada". Wondered if this had any significance ? Need to look for Robert in the UK firstly ... but there's the possibility too that he headed off to another country ?]
next >
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ooops ... the address in last post "28 St. Thomas Road, Derby" may have been # "288" (as written on another page in the file). Might need to re-check that.
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Again it's interesting that in "The Canberra Times" article of 20 February 1932 the legality of the marriage between Phyllis and Edward LINQUIST is being challenged. :-\ [Maybe I need to re-read that ?]
I wonder why it was though, that Phyllis, in her earlier search for Robert, did not get in contact with his NZ relatives ?? (Surely she knew of them ... where they lived etc. ?)
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Robert BLACKMORE -- Next-of-Kin
Finally found this at [Image 53787] - halfway through the file ! :D
"Brother, Edward - Coromander [sic], Auckland"
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And helpfully the "Auckland Star" - 15 September 1933 - page 3, carried a very informative obituary for "Mr E. A. BLACKMORE" : ;)
"Mr Edward Alexander BLACKMORE
.... survived by his brothers James and Robert, his sisters Margaret and Mrs FIRTH .. and a cousin, Annie McGREGOR ".
[Confirmation then that Robert was still around in 1933 and likely 1936 too when sister Margaret died. ]
~ Lu
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Thanks for the quite astonishing response - this really is one of those intriguing biographies! There's still a long way to go to get to the end of Robert Blackmore's life, but the evidence you have together provided suggests that he was alive and well into the 1930's, at least. For my purposes I don't think I need to verify his war record any further - you've more than adequately done that for me.
Thanks again
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Hi again
Robert BLACKMORE still alive and residing in England @ April 1942 :
Source: Death notice for brother James BLACKMORE.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Auckland Star" - 18 April 1942 - page 1 - Deaths
BLACKMORE - on April 16 at his late residence Coromandel, James, loved brother of Elizabeth FIRTH (Coromandel) and Robert BLACKMORE, England ....
~ Lu
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Hello, I have been doing some research on my family and discovered this blog from 2 years ago! I believe I can tell you some further things about Robert Blackmore. :) I would love to know more about his family in New Zealand. Can you help me? Are there still direct descendants in New Zealand?
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Hello unklep
Welcome to RootsChat. :)
Not sure whether I can help you at all, but will try.
* What information on the family do you already have ?
* Which of Robert BLACKMORE's family are you wanting further information for ?
~ Lu
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Dear unklep,
This search started with a query from me. Robert Blackmore was, briefly, a Methodist minister, as you will see from my first message. I have been trying to find out what happened to him after WW1 when he settled in the UK. His family background is, briefly:
son of Philip Henry B (1832-1892) a miner and important mine-owner of Coromandel, 'thoroughly upright and honest' according to his obit. In 1866 he married Margaret McGregor (1840-1889). They had five children (so far as I can find). (1) Edward Alexander (1866-1933) unmarried, known as a yachtsman. (2) James Hamilton (1872-1942) unmarried. Served as a sapper in WW1, and probably worked for his father. (3) Margaret (1874-1916 unmarried. (4)Elizabeth (1878-1968) married (1907) James Firth - two children Edward Kennington Nathan Firth born and died 1909; Beatrice Annie Margaret Firth (1908-1999) married (1930) to William Battersby (1907-1962) (5) Robert, born 1884.
Robert was a Methodist minister in the period 1905-1914, off and on. He married Phyllis Marizles Wirth of the famous circus company, but the marriage foundered. Robert served in WW1 but stayed on in England. As you will see from the various exchanges above it is known that he was still alive in 1942 when his brother James died. I would be most interested to have information on his later life, particularly when and where he died and what he did for a living. The information is for a register of NZ Methodist ministers I am compiling.
Hope you can help
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Wow, thanks for your fast and informative reply. I have only done a brief bit of research so far but it seems he was quite a colourful character. What I can tell you is he went on to live in England, Derby, I believe he had his own business. I think he died in 1968 and I sadly never met him. He had two sons in Derby one of which was my father. My father died in 1986. I have no idea what happenend between him and Phyllis Wirth later (Linquist) but I discovered yesterday that he possibly already had a son with her prior to moving to England!? I found an article in Trove regarding a Charles Blackmore in Australia son of Phyllis Linquist of a former marriage. That would mean my father had a half brother he new absolutely nothing about (if true)!
I have a lot of questions still to be answered...
Where did Philip Henry Blackmore come from, was he born in New Zealand?
Why did Robert leave Phyllis and disspear after the war?
Was he married twice!?
Do I have relatives in New Zealand?
Sons were... Robert Bruce Blackmore
Derek Henry Blackmove both from Derby Uk
A lot of things I still need to dig deeper in.
Many thanks and please keep me updated on anything else and I will also.
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Dear unklep,
I can't answer all the questions, of course, but can take an educated guess, as you might say.
Philip Henry Blackmore was born, according to the age on his death certificate, in 1832. I would think it more than highly likely that he was born in Cornwall. Blackmore is a not uncommon name in that part of the world at that time. It certainly is in accord with his being a miner.
The only Derbyshire county death of a Robert Blackmore in 1968, according to FreeBDM, was of a Robert K. Blackmore aged 74, not 84. Could well be him - surviving family aren't always correct in their memories of deceased parents. It would be possible to get more information if Robert's exact occupation during the years 1925 (say) to 1968 was known. He could be traced fairly easily.
The matter of his second marriage will probably be best discovered by yourself - if you have any family papers with names and dates to assist. For example your father and his brother's birth certificates would give you some leads. That part of your family history also connects with your question about why Robert and Phyllis separated - only to be answered within family memory, I would say.
There just maybe some NZ relatives. Robert's sister, Elizabeth Firth, had a daughter who became a Mrs Battersby. If you would like I could quickly check NZ births after 1930 and see where they lead.
Good luck in your digging, or mining!
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I have a lot of questions still to be answered...
* Why did Robert leave Phyllis and disspear after the war?
* Was he married twice!? [Refer to next posting ]
From Australian newspapers - at TROVE website :
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
"Sydney Morning Herald" - 15 October 1938 - page 13
Mr Philip WIRTH's Estate [Search on "Phyllis LINQUIST" ]
[Extract from article]
... "applicant's [Phyllis LINQUIST's] marriage with BLACKMORE took place in 1912.
She left him because of cruelty in the following year.
He [BLACKMORE] enlisted as a combatant in 1914 and in 1917 was posted as missing.
In 1926 the applicant [Phyllis] married LINQUIST.
She [Phyllis] had a son by her first marriage."
... the article continues with "Allegation of Bigamy" ....
[Note: I have more to add in a following post concerning information contained in the above article. ]
~ Lu
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[Robert BLACKMORE]
* Was he married twice ?
From FREE BMD [UK] website :
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages - DEC - 1933
Edith E. GADSBY
Robert BLACKMORE
Registered at: Derby
[The names of the sons you gave earlier, are shown under Births on above website, with mother's surname recorded as GADSBY. ]
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"Sydney Morning Herald" - 15 October 1938 - page 13
Mr Philip WIRTH's Estate [Search on "Phyllis LINQUIST" ]
[Extract from article]
... "applicant's [Phyllis LINQUIST's] marriage with BLACKMORE took place in 1912.
She left him because of cruelty in the following year.
He [BLACKMORE] enlisted as a combatant in 1914 and in 1917 was posted as missing.
She [Phyllis] had a son by her first marriage."
... continuing from Reply # 27
The son of Phyllis LINQUIST (formerly BLACKMORE, nee WIRTH), appears to have been one "Charles Phillip BLACKMORE".
[This man died on or about 7 March 1986 in New South Wales, aged 71 years (born c. 1915) ]
The question is, was he in fact the son of Robert BLACKMORE ?
In the above 1938 article, it was stated that Phyllis left her husband (Robert BLACKMORE) the year following their 1912 marriage (i.e. 1913).
Again in an article > "Sydney Morning Herald" - 4 June 1941 - page 6 - Bigamy Charges
> it is stated that Phyllis (LINQUIST) ..."had not seen BLACKMORE since 1913".
So, exactly when and where was the child Charles Phillip BLACKMORE born ??
According to information given in a WIRTH family tree (at ancestry.com), this child (Charles Phillip) was born on "10 November 1914 in Niles, California, USA."
[Note: Information from family trees published online should be treated with caution, especially in instances where the sources of such (info) have not been given. ]
And, according to the Attestation form of Robert BLACKMORE - Regimental # 53134 - Royal Garrison Artillery, he enlisted in Liverpool (UK) only a matter of days before (the birth) on 7 November 1914. ???
Phyllis appears to have lived in the USA for a time ... see next post >
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Phyllis LINQUIST (formerly BLACKMORE) :
The following article (from TROVE) gives some background on Phyllis.
"The Cumberland Argus and Fruitgrower's Advocate" (NSW) - 2 September 1937 - page 5
-- Daughter of the late Philip WIRTH : Living on the Dole for Three Years :
[Extracted info.]
... whilst on holiday in New Zealand she married the Rev. Robert BLACKMORE [Note: Says Phyllis was aged 16 ? - though according to Australian birth records she was born in 1892 in South Australia]
.... They [Phyllis and Robert] returned to Australia* - he joined the circus as a town? agent.
... Mrs BLACKMORE later left the circus and went to America. A child was born to her.
... She [Phyllis] worked in jobs in the USA during her 5 year stay in the States.
Just before she returned in 1917 her husband was killed at war.
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* The following may, or may not be, the BLACKMOREs returning to Sydney following their marriage in New Zealand ?
"Wimmera" - from Auckland, NZ to Sydney - arrived (29) or 30 November 1912.
Passengers: (Mesdames) R. BLACKMORE / (Messrs) R. BLACKMORE
[No further info available on passenger list re: ages etc. ]
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In 1866 he married Margaret McGregor (1840-1889). They had five children (so far as I can find). (1) Edward Alexander (1866-1933) unmarried, known as a yachtsman. (2) James Hamilton (1872-1942) unmarried. Served as a sapper in WW1, and probably worked for his father. (3) Margaret (1874-1916 unmarried. (4)Elizabeth (1878-1968) married (1907) James Firth - two children Edward Kennington Nathan Firth born and died 1909; Beatrice Annie Margaret Firth (1908-1999) married (1930) to William Battersby (1907-1962) (5) Robert, born 1884.
Looks like sister Margaret died in 1936 - she was mentioned as surviving her brother Edward Alexander - d. 1933.
Her age at death < 59 years > showing on NZ BDM site appears to be incorrect.
There is a Probate file held at Archives NZ (Auckland) which I assume refers to her ?
BLACKMORE - Margaret - Coromandel - spinster -- 1936 :
Edited to add: Another son ...
1869 / 15655 - BLACKMORE - Henry Kenington
Parents : Margaret and P. H.
Death : "New Zealand Herald" - 29 November 1895 -page 1
BLACKMORE - on November 26 at Coromandel, Henry Kennington BLACKMORE ...
NZ BDM shows his death 1895 at age 26 years.
This is probably the birth registration for the eldest son.
1867 / 15672 - BLACKMORE - Edward Alexander
Parents : Margarett and Cliff
(I'm thinking "Cliff" is a bad transcription of the name "Philip" ?? )
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Hi unklep,
Have learned a lot from Lucy2. One additional bit is the record of Robert's entry into California in June 1913, describing himself as a commercial traveller. There is some consistency in the story - if Robert went there in 1913; was followed by Phyllis; he went off to the UK to enlist, as he did, in late 1914; leaving her behind, with a child on the way. Later she returned to Sydney.
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This all makes sense from stories I have heard.
I had heard that he'd worked in both the USA and OZ prior to coming to England. I was also told he looked a lot older than 74 when he died too, which, makes sense considering he was probably 10 years older!
He referred to himself as Robert Kennington Blackmore when he came to the UK. I see the name Kennington appearing in quite a few of his other family members too.
Many thanks Lucy2 and djamesp for the information, incredible.
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Hi,
I've just discovered some of my family tree details today. I am the great, great grand daughter of this Charles Blackmore, son of Robert and Phyllis. Thank you for the information. I had no idea about any of this and have found some home movies of the Wirth's in Coogee, Australia with the circus. The home that Phillip Wirth built has an elephant buried in the yard and my grandmother was there when it was buried. I'm not sure if they knew Robert was in the UK at all! I will phone my grand mother tomorrow and tell her! Anything else I should find out about?
Casey
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Hello Casey107,
I am the grandson of Robert Blackmore from the UK. I would love to know anything about Charles and your side of the family. Any questions please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks.