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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: meggiemoo3 on Monday 17 September 12 12:54 BST (UK)
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We have just found out from my husband's mother that she had an older brother. It would seem that his grandmother had a son called Douglas when she was just 14 years of age in West Ham.Family rumour says that this child was then shunted off to live with another family member.
Now we've found a birth register for him in 1929 but this is all. I realise that this is a complete shot in the dark and the answer is probably 'no' but is there anyway of tracing him or his whereabouts after this? I guess there probably isn't because we do not know who he went to, whether he remained in the family or whether he was adopted.
We cannot ask my husband's grandmother as she passed away 10 years ago and nobody else seems to know much else about him, apart from what I have written above. We have a name and a birth registration and that is it - well at least we think that is his birth registration as dates, names and places match.
Thank you for any advice
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You have to be careful not to mention anyone who is (or may be) still living.
What is the grandmother's name?
Did Douglas have a middle name?
Was he registered with his mother's surname?
Do you have his full birth certificate?
Are there any other family members still living who may know more about Douglas?
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I'll try and give as much as I can - the only person who could possibly still be living is Douglas.
*My husband's grandmother's name was Emily Grace Sandles
*No idea about a middle name
*The mother's surname on the register was Sandles - so we think this is him
*No we don't have the birth certificate as only found this out from husband's mum last night
*Not really as there was a huge family feud and nobody speaks to anyone anymore - my mother-in-law has an older sister who is still alive who I suppose may know something.
Thats all I know.
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It might be worth getting the birth certificate in case a father is named. Others with more knowledge of this might be able to give you better advice. I suspect father's name will just be blank, but there may be other clues.
Obviously contacting your mother in law's sister might give you some valuable information. Maybe you could write her a letter? :-\
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Thank you
Yes I think getting the birth certificate may be the next step - the father's name may be blank who knows. Was it the case in 1929 that the father had to be present at the registration for his name to be included if the parents weren't married, as it is now - or at least was when our eldest daughter was born? I know my great great great grandmother got the father's name on her duaghter's birth certificate by putting his surname as one of her middle names and this was how I located him having found a bastardy hearing notice.
We are also trying to find out whether she went into service at the age of 14 on leaving school as I'm sure that many large households still had servants in the 30s? This may give us a clue too.
Going to see my mother-in-law on Saturday so perhaps we may get a bit more information then.
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I believe the father had to be present but don't quote me on that. ;)
I'm not sure how you can find out if she went into service but good luck with the search. Let us know if you get any more information from your mother in law.
I can't really be of any further assistance as I have no experience researching this kind of thing. I just wanted to ask the questions that I thought others may need to know if they were to help you.
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Thats OK thankyou. Wil post anymore information if I get any.
I guess what makes it so tricky is that we are not going to find him on a census return just yet - have to wait for the 1921 one to be released!!! Had this have occurred even 20 years earlier it may have been easier because at least then we would have had the 1901 and 1911 Censuses to look at and trace him from there.
Think it might be a case of waiting a few years and then trying again!!!
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Yes, it's easier the further back you go.
Emily Grace wouldn't even have been around for the 1911 census, but if you track down her birth certificate and get her parent's names you should be able to find them in 1911. Not really what you're after at the moment I know.
If you can find out the name of the family who took Douglas in, you might be able to track them down in telephone directories ... that might be key to finding him - maybe he took their surname. I did look for a death for him but they only go as far as 2006 and I couldn't see a Douglas Sandles (I didn' know what else to try). He might still be alive of course. That would be exciting.
Another thing - maybe he had a role in WW2? Maybe some record of him there. Of course it would be very useful to know his surname if it wasn't Sandles.
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Can you widen your net at all and trace any cousins he may have had who might know what happened to him?
There is no one of that name on my 2002 electoral roll infodisk.
I wonder if it's worth treating this as an adoption and try and find out if he was indeed adopted?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,253490.0.html
Carol
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We have all of Emily's details, know her parents and the names of her brothers and sisters so that is not a problem. Not sure if we know of cousins etc though.
Parents - Herbert T Sandles (1881) and Sarah Amelia Kingsland
Siblings - Louisa A Sandles (1905-2001) Minnie A Sandles (1907-1991) George HT Sandles (1911-1970) Alice A Sandles (1916) and Herbert M Sandles (1919-1993)
We also have details of Herbert's and Sarah's parents and siblings - which I suppose any of these could be the relative that Douglas was sent off too.
Will try and sort out the details of any cousins and get back to you.
Thank you
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Don't name any of the cousins here, will you, as they may well be still alive.
I was just suggesting you could contact some of them and ask if they knew what happened to him.
I wonder if the authorities would have insisted that a child of 14 have her baby adopted? Adoptions were legalised in 1927,before that it could often be an arrangement between friends or family members.
Carol
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No I won't but thanks for the reminder.
As far as we know according to my mother-in-law the brother was sent off to live with family members - now I don't know whether this was Emily being sent off to have the baby or it was the baby being sent off.
I need to check the family tree to see whether any of the aunts/uncles of Emily had children that could possibly have been 'Douglas' with another name.
I know that my mother-in-law's older twin sisters were born around 1935 so they may not even have known a great deal about this brother either. One of them wrote a book about their family history during the War and to the present day but there is no mention of a 'brother' or any photgraphs of any either.
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Thanks
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meggiemoo3,
Not sure if you have access to Anc* but if the son retained his birth surname there appear in the telephone index a couple with this name until at least 1984. Their addressess may be a clue as there are others with that surname in area.
Any problems send me a pm
John
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meggiemoo3,
Not sure if you have access to Anc* but if the son retained his birth surname there appear in the telephone index a couple with this name until at least 1984. Their addressess may be a clue as there are others with that surname in area.
Any problems send me a pm
John
Yes we do - thanks for that info - will start looking - there were certainly quite a few Sandles in the family so who knows.
It would seem that apparently he went to grandparents - although we don't know whether that was Herbert and Sarahor whether it was the paternal grandparents - may know more at the weekend.
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if he was legally adopted getting his birth certificate should say on it.........it wont give you by whom but at least then you would know which trail to follow.
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Well I can now update this with a little more information that may help with finding Douglas.
I spoke to my mother-in-law yesterday and quizzed her about what she remembered and what her older sister had told her.
Firstly apparently his father was believed to be a boy of a family that lived she thought in the same block of houses/in the same house as Emily and her family when they lived in London. Apparently Emily became extremly friendly with one of the boys of this family. I guess we are going to have to wait until the 1921 Census to find out any details about this as Emily and her family still lived in Sussex in 1911. She believes as I said before that Douglas went to family to be brought up - she thinks that this was Emily's family but is not 100% sure. She's not sure whether he kept the same name but does not believe that he was adopted out so he probably did.
My mother-in-law has recollections when she was a child of a young man coming to visit quite regularly and she believes that this may have been Dougie (the name she uses). She said that he was in the Army - probably doing his National Service as he would not have been old enough to have enlisted during WW2. She also recalls him spending time at their house ill, after contracting malaria whilst overseas.