RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: D_Anthony_H on Monday 17 September 12 09:11 BST (UK)
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There is a tree of Thomas Peach & Elizabeth Heape and their descendants at
http://www.h1932.com/Peach/
note that this URL is case sensitive
I am looking for the marriage of John Peach and Elisabeth Handley anywhere in England between 1782 and 1787 (alternative spellings Elizabeth, and also Handly).
I am also looking for the baptism of any and all who were baptised Elizabeth Peach in Derbyshire, Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire and Staffordshire in 1785, 1786, 1787 and 1788 (alternative spelling Elisabeth).
Elisabeth Peach is my ancestor. The first appearance of Elisabeth_P that I can find is her 1810 marriage to Anton˙_H in Ashby de la Zouch. A witness at her wedding was Martha Handly Peach. I have spent many days at the Leicestershire Records Office searching Parish after Parish for her Christening - but I have yet to find her, and I am starting to think that she was possibly born in a neighbouring County. I have joined RootsChat in the hopes that someone has found something which might indicate which Parish of which County is where Elisabeth was born, or where in England the parents of Martha were married.
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Post removed to keep thread tidy.
;D
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I apologise for misleading you, Ray. I have corrected my sloppy wording by replacing
Anton˙
with
Anton˙_H
to make it clear that Anton˙ is not (in this case) a surname.
D.
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I am also looking for the baptism of any and all who were baptised Elizabeth Peach in Derbyshire, Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire and Staffordshire in 1785, 1786, 1787 and 1788 (alternative spelling Elisabeth).
Hi D,
Have you considered any of these for the baptisms you are looking for :
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0r7v/
Welcome to RootsChat ! :) :)
Kind regards,
Pels.
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Before you look at the link I posted above, have you seen this :
Christening: 6th December 1789
Elisabeth Peach
Parents : William and Elisabeth Peach
Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire
The 1841 census claims Elizabeth was 50, therefore born circa 1791. As I'm sure you are aware this census has the age for anyone over the age of fifteen rounded down to the nearest five years.
I think the above baptism looks a good match for the lady in 1841.
Pels.
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Death, Jun 1847
Elizabeth Hoffman
Ashby de la Z, Vol 15, page 1
The death certificate should give an idea of Elisabeth's age helping you determine whether she was born in 1789, rather than the years you mention.
Pels.
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I am looking for the marriage of John Peach and Elisabeth Handley anywhere in England between 1782 and 1787 (alternative spellings Elizabeth, and also Handly).
A witness at her wedding was Martha Handly Peach. I have spent many days at the Leicestershire Records Office searching Parish after Parish for her Christening - but I have yet to find her, and I am starting to think that she was possibly born in a neighbouring County. I have joined RootsChat in the hopes that someone has found something which might indicate which Parish of which County is where Elisabeth was born, or where in England the parents of Martha were married.
Just to make it easier :
Christening: 23rd May 1791
Martha Handley Peach
Parents : John and Elisabeth Peach
Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire
Could the middle name of Handley belong to a grandparent - therefore not necessarily the maiden name for Elisabeth, Martha's mother ?
Pels.
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Thank you so much Pels for your excellent suggestions. I had reached a block in my thinking, and you have shown me a new door to open. I don't want to say too much in this first message, but it is important that I underline my sincere thanks to you.
As it happens, my Elizabeth Peach was married before the 1841 Census. She died before the 1851 Census. The only facts that I have is a "Y" in the 1841 Census for Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire, plus also the age on her Death Certificate which is the same as the age in the Parish Records, and finally the name of a witness at Elizabeth's wedding - Martha Handley Peach (who was Christened in Ashby de la Zouch).
I rule out the 1789 Elizabeth because my Elizabeth was born in 1786 or (slightly less likely) in 1787. My guess is that County boundaries were not a serious concern of the average person. So after 30 years of searching Leicestershire, including many days of reading page after page of Parish Records in the Leicestershire Records Office, I have turned to think about the neighbouring Counties. But of course this involves several hundreds of Parishes.
I will post a second message tomorrow which gives more information.
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Don't forget that although most baptisms occurred within a short period after the birth of a child,there were sometimes months and years between the birth and the baptism so the Elizabeth baptized Ashby de la Zouch could be yours.
Liz
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I'm confused, Liz - but I expect I'll have to wait a bit longer to find out now ?
As it happens, my Elizabeth Peach was married before the 1841 Census. She died before the 1851 Census. The only facts that I have is a "Y" in the 1841 Census for Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire, plus also the age on her Death Certificate which is the same as the age in the Parish Records, and finally the name of a witness at Elizabeth's wedding - Martha Handley Peach (who was Christened in Ashby de la Zouch).
I rule out the 1789 Elizabeth because my Elizabeth was born in 1786 or (slightly less likely) in 1787.
Before you look at the link I posted above, have you seen this :
Christening: 6th December 1789
Elisabeth Peach
Parents : William and Elisabeth Peach
Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire
The 1841 census claims Elizabeth was 50, therefore born circa 1791. As I'm sure you are aware this census has the age for anyone over the age of fifteen rounded down to the nearest five years.
I think the above baptism looks a good match for the lady in 1841.
Pels.
The Elisabeth I mentioned in 1841 was married because her surname was recorded as Hoffman. She was living with her 25 year old son, John - who was recorded as a Hat Maker.
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1841 census :
HO107/594/3, Folio 28, Page 15
Leicestershire, Ashby de la Zouch
Elizabeth Hoffman, 50
John Hoffman, 25, Hat m.
Both born in county.
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Christening : 15th February 1815
John Hoffman
Parents : Anthony and Elisabeth
Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire
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Death, Jun 1847
Elizabeth Hoffman
Ashby de la Z, Vol 15, page 1
And the death certificate I mentioned, which I imagine to say Elisabeth was in her late fifties when she died - possibly 57 or 58 years of age ?
Pels.
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Yes you are right it is Elizabeth Hoffman (née Peach) who was married 14 May 1810 in St Helens Church to someone who signed himself Anton˙ Joseph Hoffmann (Anton˙ was maybe 38, Elizabeth was maybe 23). Elizabeth died 3 April 1847 and was buried 7 April 1847. She was stated on both documents to be 60 (presumably this information came from her husband who outlived her by nearly four years). Her husband was a Hatter. He had come to England as a Prisoner of War. He had been a Sous-Lieutenant and had been captured by the English 15 August 1809 in Flushing (Vlissingen) in the Netherlands. As well as being multilingual Anton˙ was also Treasurer of a local sick club. Presumably Anton˙ celebrated his wife's 60th birthday and this was possible because Anton˙ could read, write and do arithmetic.
(1) I agree that the age of 60 may well have been correct and that she was baptised when three years old.
(2) I also accept that his statement that his wife was 60 might be untrue because she lied to him (or maybe Anton˙ had a serious stroke in 1847, or earlier, and could no longer do arithmetic)..
The difficulty with accepting either (1) or (2) is that it is not possible to justify the logic of rejecting the other option (although I freely admit that both options embrace the 6 December 1789 baptism). That is why I search for a Parish with two events - a Christening of Elizabeth and the marriage of her Aunt and Uncle. There may be no such Parish, because the truth may indeed be option (1) or it may be option (2). But if there is such a Parish then the two events would provide mutual corroboration.
I will post again to explain what I have learned about IGIs and how I will use them as Pels prompted me to, because it helps me work out a "plan for searching" if I am able to "think out loud" by talking to someone.
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This is a study I did a while ago. Although it relates to Ashby de la Zouch it shows IGI gaps that also occur in several other Parishes. These gaps explain why some events cannot be found on the IGI. The IGI data is derived from Bishop's Transcripts which are on 35mm film. The IGI slightly inflates the numbers because most years include one or two Births which are quoted in subsequent Christenings (see years 1813 and 1841 for examples)
Year by year numbers of Christenings in Ashby de la Zouch
IGI
1800 50
1801 60
1802 81
1803 69
1804 78
1805 77
1806 75
1807 83
1808 83
1809 83
1810 82
1811 71
1812 65
1813 2 One was Christened in 1833, the other in 1836 - both born in 1813
1814 117
1815 104
1816 113
1817 117
1818 117
1819 116
1820 87
1821 121
1822 139
1823 120
1824 120
1825 122
1826 122
1827 131
1828 98
1829 118
1830 103
1831 114
1832 110
1833 125
1834 121
1835 102
1836 99
1837 0
1838 0
1839 0
1840 0
1841 1 Christened in 1849, born in 1841
1842 105
1843 109
1844 99
1845 117
1846 0
1847 148
1) Bishop's Transcripts for some years have been lost e.g. 1813, 1846.
2) There is a bigger gap that affects five consecutive years
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Martha Handley Peach had a sister called Ruth. Ruth was Christened with one name "Ruth". However when Ruth married, she called herself Ruth Handley Peach. So Handley is important, and could well be their mother's maiden name.
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This posting will explain why I started to question the completeness of the IGI, and tried to understand how and why it is incomplete. I am concerned only with IGI "Batches". There are individual entries in the IGI but these are`well known to be variable in veracity.
There is a Gedcom that was last updated on 15 January 2001. The author is Frank Brocklehurst. Frank may no longer be with us. His Gedcom contains an Elizabeth Peach who was baptised 10 January 1791. She was presumably baptised in Stapenhill, Derbyshire because all nine of her siblings were baptised in Stapenhill. In some eyes, this 1791 Elizabeth is a better prospect than the 1789 Elizabeth because she has advantages. Frank found the marriage date of the parents, the maiden name of the mother (Heape), the burial dates of both parents and therefore their approximate years of birth. Very little of this can be found by a search of IGI, so I looked at the Stapenhill IGI.
It is possible to start with the World-wide index of the IGIs on the website of the Church Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but I prefer to start with the IGI index for England
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm#PageTitle
I click on "Derby (N-Z)" and then find Stapenhill. I choose M058832 for marriages which is labelled "1660-1810". On opening it I can find after quite a bit of labour that there are no entries for the period 1770-1799. If instead I click on J058832 for Christenings which is labelled "1660-1810" I find there is a gap from 1771-1799. There will be several more gaps, for example I know that there is a gap from 1748-1761 in the Christenings. What are missing are exact years. These will be the Bishop's Transcripts for the years in question. The missing years can be researched by a visit to the appropriate County Records Office - the data is on the Parish Records.
If there are no missing years in the area of interest then I discount this Parish.
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Sorry the word is Gedcom (i.e. "Gedcom format") and not gedom.
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I intend in 2013 to go to the Derbyshire Records Office and among other things look carefully at the Parish Records for Ashover to search for the marriage of John Peach who I believe is the Uncle of my Elizabeth Peach (Elizabeth matches a 3 June 1787 Christening in Ashover).
Also I plan to go to the Staffordshire Records Office and among other things look carefully at the Parish Records for Penkridge to search for the marriage of John Peach the possible Uncle of my Elizabeth Peach (Elizabeth matches a 5 November 1786 Christening in Penkridge).
The statement above is my decision which is a consequence of three IGI Christening searches of Derbyshire, Staffordshire, and Nottinghamshire. The searches start from the page
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi
The Derbyshire search consisted of inputting "Elizabeth" "Peach", clicking on "Birth", inputting "Derbyshire" "1785" and "1788". This gave me three results. There are no IGI Marriage records for Ashover so that stays on my list. The second result was a 3 June 1787 Christening in a place called "Dethwick". The date-and-particulars were absolutely identical to the Ashover Parish date-and-particulars - and since Google maps cannot find Dethwick, I crossed Dethwick off the list. The third result was in the Parish of "Barrow with Twyford", and a search of marriages of Peach from 1782 to 1788 revealed that there were Marriage records for each and every year, so I crossed "Barrow with Twyford" off the list.
The Staffordshire search was essentially similar and I found a Christening in Penkridge and there is no IGI Marriage for Penkridge (for 1782-1788) - so Penkridge stays on my list. The other two Christenings were both in Ellastone which is covered by the IGI for marriages for each of the years from 1782 to 1789 inclusive - so I crossed Ellastone off the list.
The Nottinghamshire search uncovered no Christenings of Elizabeth Peach for the date-range that I was interested in.
To be realistic, it is extremely unlikely that either of these Parishes (Ashover and Penkridge) will have the pot of gold that I have been searching for these thirty years - but I really do not have time to search within all of the three County Records Office, each of which has considerably more than a hundred Parish Records.
Footnotes
(1) It is ironic that although there are a handful of Christenings of Elizabeth Peach in the nearby Counties (within the 1785-1788 inclusive search dates) there are none in Leicestershire - and yet the 1841 Census return has a "Y" against Elizabeth's name
(2) This posting was drafted yesterday and I have now carefully checked it through. In the cold light of a new September day I am very disappointed that the two Parishes (Ashover and Penkridge) are so far way from the Leicestershire boundary. The distance means that the "Y" is not a misunderstanding of where the boundary is, but is better described as a serious mistake in answering a simple question asked by the AdlZ enumerator (so I am sceptical that Ashover or Penkridge will reward my search for the Peach/Handly marriage). Stapenhill is worth looking at. Does anyone know of a map of Derbyshire Parishes on the Internet?
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Hi again,
I've been reading your words with great interest. Have a look at this first :
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/Parishes.html
Once you've found the village or town you want - by clicking on 'nearby places' at the top of the page you can find all the places within the locality, also finding the distance they are from where you are looking.
Also included in the above link :
Parish descriptions are also available on Ann Andrews' Derbyshire's Parishes, 1811 pages.
Plus here's a site I often refer to, but I'm not sure it's appropriate for what you need :
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/
Pels.
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Just a thought, but have you considered doing this by a process of elimination in a different way.
For example, trying to find the outcome of Elisabeth Peach who was baptised on the 6th December, 1789. If you could prove what happened to her then clearly she's not the one who married Anthony Hoffman.
Pels.
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Is there a connection between the mother of this child and the Elizabeth who married Anthony ?
Christening : 27th January 1809
Ann Peach
Mother : Elizabeth Peach
Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire
Pels.
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Two excellent references.
And two questions that are new to me. Both questions are good and challenging. I add then to my list of questions which include
(1) Who was Dorothy Peach who was a witness at the wedding of Martha Handly Peach?
(2) Who was Charles Peach Farmer of AdlZ who stood surety of £20 (equivalent to £12,000 in 2011) so that she could be issued with a marriage licence to marry Lieutenant Franēois Peyrol.
I have about half a dozen questions, any one of which could lead to a new link.
I have decided to prefer Handly as the spelling of Martha's middle name - because that is the way that she signed her name.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t385/Flat_32/MarthaHandleyPeach320_zps3ddfd2fd.jpg)
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All I seem to be doing is asking questions, here's another, sorry.
Do you have the whereabouts of Antony in 1841 ?
Pels.
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This is copied from an old account that I wrote some years ago and throughout that account I spell AJH's name as Anthony Joseph Hoffman which is how it was written on his Death Certificate. The only two signatures that I have (1810 and 1816) have his name written as Anton˙ Joseph Hoffmann (1810) and Antony Joseph Hoffmann (1816).
I have searched the 1841 Census for AJH. My search has included all variants of the surname including Offman and Hoofman. Ancestry allows wild card search for middle letters and I have exploited this to the full. I have not limited myself to Anthony/Antony/Tony but my search has had no success. I can never be sure. But this following explanation is one that buys me a little peace of mind.
In 1841 Anthony Hoffman (the son of Anthony Joseph Hoffman) marries Lucy Pegg. On the day of the marriage, Lucy Pegg is under the age of 21 (she does not try to slip by as “of age” she actually gives her age as 20).
The 1841 Census was held on Sunday 6 June 1841. The wedding was 8 days later on the 14 June 1841. It is therefore possible that Anthony Joseph Hoffman went to Newton Regis, Warwickshire to obtain the written permission of Lucy’s father John Pegg. Alternatively AJH went to Newton Regis to collect both of Lucy’s parents and bring then to AdlZ for the wedding. Please be patient with me while I fantasize about the first option (only).
As incidental information Lucy Pegg signed her name on the marriage certificate, and in this period when literacy was so heavily biased towards the male sex, her literacy strongly suggests that her father John Pegg was also literate.
At one time, in my imagination I could see Anthony Joseph visiting Lucy Pegg’s parents and obtaining the written consent of John Pegg. Anthony Joseph may have gone alone or he may have brought his son Anthony with him. Anthony Joseph would certainly not have brought his son Anthony to the Pegg’s house – that would be impolite and counterproductive in any Century. Measham (where the son Anthony lives) is midway between Ashby and Newton Regis – and this may have been a convenient stop on the way. Anthony Joseph Hoffman could have travelled to Measham by stage coach on the Saturday evening. Anthony the son, was a groom and therefore could ride a horse and he would know who to hire a pair of reliable horses from, and he could chose a pair suitable for his father and himself. If the two Antonys travelled overnight from Measham to Newton Regis they would have had good light from the moon - according to http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phase/phasecat.html
there was a full moon on Friday 4 June 1841 – and so towards midnight of Saturday 5 June and/or in the early hours of Sunday 6 Sunday the two men could have ridden in bright moonlight and could have stopped at a hostelry near Newton Regis just as the sun was rising. At the hostelry they could catch up on sleep, have breakfast and freshen up and look smart. They would have arrived at the hostelry too late to be included in the Census. The son Anthony would have stayed behind in the hostelry while his father visited John & Mary Pegg. It is also possible that Anthony Joseph travelled alone – but still found it convenient to pick up a horse from his son in Measham. The instructions on the 1841 Census asks for the Names of each Person who abode therein the preceding Night. Those who slept overnight in a particular house in Ashby were recorded in the 1841 Census as being Elizabeth Hoffman, her eldest son John Hoffman and also the bride-to-be Lucy Pegg (there is something auspicious about Lucy being there with her future mother-in-law – Lucy's presence and the absence of her future father-in-law are in a curious asymmetry). Those who slept overnight in a specific house in Newton Regis were John and Mary Pegg, the parents of Lucy Pegg. Strictly speaking, Anthony Joseph Hoffman on his journey should have been recorded at the place where he left at the start of his journey – but was this Ashby or Measham? Honest mistake do happen.
Anthony Joseph Hoffman was well thought of in Ashby de la Zouch, and he had even been made treasurer of an Ashby sick club. He was a hatter and to be successful as a hatter, he would have owned and would habitually wear very smart suits and he would speak in such a way as to sell his hats to the wealthier citizens of Ashby de la Zouch. Anthony Joseph Hoffman spoke with a Dutch accent, and in the nineteenth century Dutch were very well regarded by English people. The writing that we have that was done by Anthony Joseph Hoffman shows him to be a man who is self-confident. But Anthony Joseph like any good shopkeeper finds the level to speak that will influence his customer. No doubt his demeanour and appearance overcame whatever doubt that there may have been in the minds of Lucy Pegg’s parents.
I should perhaps make it clear that this idea of a journey to Newton Regis is pure fantasy and wishful thinking on my part. The truth is entirely different – I do not know why Anthony Joseph Hoffman was absent from his home on Census day 1841.
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Best thing to do is for you have a look at this image and see what you think :
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1841 census :
HO107/598/14, Folio 9, Page 11
Leicestershire, Lutterworth
Church Street
//
John Sutton, 40, Farrier
Mary, 44
/
nk Hufman, 70, Hatter
Mary Carrington (?), 45, Ind
//
Mary Sutton is the only one noted to have been born in county.
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Might be worthy of consideration. You will find him by searching for 'Nk Hupman'.
As you will already know the census term refers to name 'not known'.
Pels.
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I have to tell you Pels that you have just won a prize.
The account of AJH which came from his grandaughter tells us that AJH worked as a hatter for Messrs. Kelsey, silk hat makers, who came from Lutterworth, and had a shop next door to the Urban District Council Chamber" .
The account is in the Book "The story of Ashby-de-la-Zouch" by W.Scott, published by George Brown Ashby de la Zouch, 1907. My copy was bought by my mother from the publisher on 21 December 1939. The piece that I quote does appear ambiguous when it out of context of the book. The style of phraseology of the book is such that it is clear that the author has in mind a shop and a UDC Chamber in Ashby de la Zouch (and not Lutterworth).
I am absolutely delighted Pels that you came into my life. What has happened here is much better than the lonely experience within Ancestry.co.uk and Genes Reunited.
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Yes Pels that all looks ok to me. Kelsey was a silk hat maker who had an interest in a wider area than Lutterworth. So he would have at least five employees in Lutterworth. I consider that Lutterworth plus hatter is not quite two points - but say one and three quarters. The "nk" is in fact "n k" which as you say is the abbreviation of "not known". AJH died on 12 March 1851. The age on his Death Certificate is 78. So on 12 March 1841 AJH would be between his 68th and 69th birthday. The 1841 Census is nearly three months later (6 June 1841) so on Census day AJH might have been in his 70th year. Ages were supposed to be rounded down in the 1841 Census, so AJK should have been recorded as 65. However I am not the slightest bit uncomfortable with the stated age of 70. Hupman is acceptable as an honest attempt to write the name of someone whose given names (Christian names) are unknown. Lutterworth is too far away from AdlZ, Measham or even Newton Regis (where John Pegg, Ag lab, and his wife Mary live). There is therefore no obvious connection between the imminent marriage and AJH being in Lutterworth on Census night.
But there is enough there. This is my Anton˙ Joseph Hoffmann
I don't see any familiar names on the Census page that you found, nor on the adjacent pages. I now close that particular book. Possibly AJH wanted something (cloth or etc) from Kelsey, and Sunday was a good day because the AdlZ shop would be shut on Sundays.
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n k Hupman is in Church Street. On the next page but one, also in Church Street, is John Kelsey, aged 50, and his wife and their four children aged 13, 15, 17 & 20.
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Greeting’s…..Folks......
I was invited in…….
to throw anything thing extra in .due to my Leicestershire local knowledge………
Having looked at all events which have been mentioned on this thread :~
Re a Baptism for Elizabeth Peach late 1700’s
I noted the following Ashby De la Zouch :~
1789 6th December Daughter of William & Elizabeth Peach
1793. 12th.October. Daughter of Job & Frances Peach. née TOON.
The thought crossed my mind could either of these Elizabeth Peach's have been adopted
by John & Elizabeth Peach ?
Re :~ Marriages ....
Both Francois Payrol & Anthony Joseph HOFFMANN
Were French Prisoners of War. ……..
1816.Ruth Handley Peach married John Danver 10th. November
Shepshed. …. by Banns.
More Jigsaw pieces to add to your pile …….
Re events found within the Leicestershire Poor Law Sessions :~
1807….Epiphany ~ Michaelmas Sessions
Case QS6 / 1/1/ 636. Microfilm No’. 507.
Confirmed ……3rd January.
Elizabeth Peach, Single woman
Removal Order From Ashby de la Zouch to Castle Donnington.
And ……..
1811.
Easter Sessions
Case No’. QS3 / 387 / 9. Microfilm No’. 509.
Declaration
23th. April.
Martha Peach. Single Woman
Male delivered….20th. April.
Removal to Castle Donnington.
MIKE. …….
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That really is excellent Mike - thank you so much. The 6 December 1789 is a popular candidate. But not as popular as the 10 January 1791 Elizabeth (Stapenhill), because the 1791 one brings with her more family data. I am very keen on 5 April 1786 - 4 April 1787 as the baptism dates for Elizabeth, but I am happy to stretch the dates to 1 January 1785 - 31 December 1788. Yes I know she could have lied about her age. I also concede that she may have been baptised when a 3-year old (this would allow the 6 December 1789, but not the 12 October 1793 one because of the dates of baptisms of the other children of Job & Frances Peach).
My Scottish friend is descended from Martha Handly Peyrol (née Peach). So I know about William Peach 2 December 1787 and Ruth Peach who are siblings of Martha. The popular choice of parents of these three are John Peach & Elizabeth Peach (née Holbrooke), however there is a William baptised son of "John Peach" (before mothers were mentioned by name) on 2 December 1782, and yet no William buried between the baptisms of both Williams. This is why I search for a Parish that has a suitable Elizabeth Peach baptism plus also a marriage of John Peach & Elizabeth Handly.
David
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Greeting’s David. ……
The details I have posted for the “ Poor Law Sessions “
Come from that CD.MK 2. ( index only )
The Ref. No’. I have shown are for
For the full report of the cases :~
Hard copies for the case No’s QS6 & 3
These are held within the strong room of the Records Office
& have to be ordered up for you to search through
The Microfilms are in the Cabinet by the door to search room No’. 2
Over head projectors to view these are in room No’. 1 ( main search room )
Allow yourself 30 minutes per film as the cases are not in numerical order
MIKE. …..
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Thank you Mike. Your last posting will also be useful to others who read this thread and also would like to know about that precious parcel of information in the Leicestershire Record Office.
I had occasion to ask the person in charge of Room number 2 if I could see the original Parish Record of the marriage of my ancestors' marriage (Anton˙ Joseph Hoffmann & Elizabeth Peach). I had to justify my request to him by explaining my curiosity about what looked like two dots over the y (I write this as ˙, although I subsequently discovered that it is a special letter of the Dutch alphabet which the Dutch put as ij when in print (eg ijs for ice - but if the initial letter is capitalised the word becomes IJs - it is very strange to see what looks like two capital letters).
After I had the privilege of being able to look at the original Parish Record, I asked the Room 2 supervisor if I could have a scan of the original entry, and for a fee of £5 he kindly arranged for the original to be scanned (see snippet below)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t385/Flat_32/funny%20letter_zps4082ecca.jpg)
An excellent reference for this peculiar letter of the Dutch alphabet can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(digraph)
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Thanks for this Mike
1807….Epiphany ~ Michaelmas Sessions
Case QS6 / 1/1/ 636. Microfilm No’. 507.
Confirmed ……3rd January.
Elizabeth Peach, Single woman
Removal Order From Ashby de la Zouch to Castle Donnington.
And ……..
1811.
Easter Sessions
Case No’. QS3 / 387 / 9. Microfilm No’. 509.
Declaration
23th. April.
Martha Peach. Single Woman
Male delivered….20th. April.
Removal to Castle Donnington.
And the index is on a CD in the Records Office.
David
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Thank you Pels for pointing out that the 1841 entry is really "n k Hufman".
At St Helen's Church in Ashby de la Zouch, the Officiating Minister was probably hard pushed with the foreign names of the Prisoners of War who came in to be married. This is what the vicar or cleric wrote at the top of the Parish Record Marriage of AJH.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t385/Flat_32/Offman_zpsc74c39bb.jpg)
There is something very strange about the way that Hoffmann is written. But it is perhaps explained by the 1841 Census of Measham that attributes the surname "Offman" to the second son of AJH. With that in mind, if you look again at the image above you can imagine that the Vicar originally wrote "Offman" but after AJH had signed his name, the vicar added the H at the beginning, and if you look very carefully, that last n is out of line with the previous letters.
But the important thing is that the index of marriages will record the name that is there after the vicar had finished his writing and corrections - Hoffmann with an "H" and two "n"s.
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Some of the handwriting is most challenging. There is someone called Franēois Peyrol who was a Lieutenant in the Army of St Domingue and who was captured 25 July 1803 (I think he was on a French Man-of-War called le Desquerne). He is the one who married Martha Handly Peach.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t385/Flat_32/700CopyofPeach002_zps7615a04b.jpg)
On 3 May 1834 his daughter's name was "Mary Ann Peril". This was when she married James Broomhead in All Saints, Loughborough, Leicestershire.
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The information about the capture of Franēois Peyrol comes from the publication "Napoleonic Prisoners of War" by Arthur Crane, Kenneth Hillier & David Jackson:- published by Ashby Museum, 1999.
http://www.ashbydelazouchmuseum.org.uk/index.html
The Museum is dedicated to on-going research, for example they produce a journal called
"Ashby-de-la-Zouch Past and Present"
Volume One was published in December 2001. The latest Volume is number Fourteen.
Kenneth Hillier is Chairman of the Trustees of the Museum, he is often to be found manning the desk. So when you speak to the man behind the desk, you are speaking to someone who is a gold-mine of information.
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I went to Derbyshire Records Office (in Matlock) last Wednesday and conducted a very thorough search but did not find my ancestor Elizabeth Peach. As part of my activity I searched for the Peach family of Stapenhill. They are evidently one family. They are not related to me, but if anyone reading this is interested in that Derbyshire family then I have put my stuff on
http://www.h1932.com/Peach/