RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: bper on Monday 17 September 12 06:33 BST (UK)
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Just found a witness on a marriage cert named Eva W Sutherland. The marriage in June 1895 is of Jessie Fraser, daughter of Charles and Elizabeth Fraser nee Sutherland, and am wondering if Eva is related and how. I can find no birth, marriage or death in NZ for Eva.
Do any Sutherland researchers have Eva W Sutherland of New Brighton CHCH on their tree, that may be able to help with this one.
Thanks in advance
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Charles and Elizabeth married in NZ
1867/7399 Elizabeth Sutherland to Charles Fraser
Cheers Janette
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Here is the marriage notice from the paper for Jessie and Rowland
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0r4u/
1895/499 Jessie Fraser to Rowland Hill
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette. Didnt have the marriage notice, but did already have the marriage of Charles Fraser and Elizabeth Sutherland. That doesnt help me find out who Eva W Sutherland is, since I have no idea who Elizabeths Parents were. She did marry Charles Fraser at the home of W Sutherland, Columbo Street. (Presumably her father) but guessing.
Appreciate your help
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After a serious trawl through the NZ BDM index for deaths I have come up with two possible death years for Elizabeth Fraser.
1.1911 aged 62 years. Ref: 1911/4942. This age would make Elizabeth about 18 at the time of her marriage.
2. 1924 aged 84 years. Ref: 1924/8048. This age would make Elizabeth about 27 at the time of her marriage.
Minniehaha.
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Found burial of one possible "candidate"-
Elizabeth Fraser buried Linwood cemetery. Died 3.8.1924. A widow aged 84 years, born England. However, said to have been in NZ 50 years. So, that one could probably be ruled out, although length of time in NZ may well have been a "guesstimate".
Minniehaha.
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Something else to add to the mix,there is an arrival of an Eliz Sutherland in 1866,aged 24
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0rx5/
I know you may have some of this information,but it may help others to help you.
Cheers Janette
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Could it be Eva M Sutherland?
1926/311 Eva Maude Sutherland to Leonard Ward Warde
there is also this marriage
1915/8767 Eva Sutherland to James Chamberlain
Cheers Janette
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A death for Eva
1923/1475 Chamberlain Eva 34Y
1977/45246 Warde Eva Maude born 22 January 1900
It looks like they can be eliminated
Cheers Janette
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If I get a chance, I will try and obtain a newspaper death notice (1924) for the abovementioned Elizabeth Fraser of Christchurch. Just to eliminate her or otherwise.
Minniehaha.
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Can anyone tell me where the 1911 burial of Elizabeth Fraser took place please?
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minnie...
Most likely Temuka
FRASER, Elizabeth - d.o.bur 10 April 1911 - Temuka Cemetery
http://www.timaru.govt.nz/services/cemetery/plot/17344
Regards
Beg
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Thank you Beg. May have to do a couple of newspaper look-ups to see if one of these deaths is connected to the family of Bper. Nothing really obvious yet.
Minniehaha. :)
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Hi Minnie...
Most likely Temuka
FRASER, Elizabeth - d.o.bur 10 April 1911 - Temuka Cemetery
http://www.timaru.govt.nz/services/cemetery/plot/17344
Regards
Beg
Maybe not the correct lady
The headstone includes a Kate Cain died 1938 aged 58
birth
1879/16273 Fraser Kate to Elizabeth and John
marriage
1908/7181 Kate Fraser to Samuel Cain
death
1938/28032 Cain Kate 58Y
Cheers Janette
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Found burial of one possible "candidate"-
Elizabeth Fraser buried Linwood cemetery. Died 3.8.1924. A widow aged 84 years, born England.
If I get a chance, I will try and obtain a newspaper death notice (1924) for the abovementioned Elizabeth Fraser of Christchurch. Just to eliminate her or otherwise.
Minniehaha.
Hi
Elizabeth FRASER (d. 1924) shares a plot with her husband, John Gideon FRASER (d. 1920 aged 80 years.)
~ Lu
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Thank you Lucy. You have saved me a trip to search for the death notice. Looks as if we are back to square one?
Minniehaha. :)
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Thank you all for your replies to my original post re Eva W Sutherland. I apologise for not replying sooner but didn't get the normal updates re new postings until yesterday when one came through.
Elizabeth Fraser nee Sutherland, wife of Charles Fraser, died 1918 Halswell, and is buried in Addington cemetery with her husband. Have all the info on these 2 people but doesn't help me find out who Eva was. Looked up NZ BDMS online and didn't find anyone that I thought was a possible candidate.
Eva had to have been born prior to 1877? to have been witness at wedding in 1895
Appreciate all your help with this one.
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Hi Bper,
Is there anything else you have on this family that may help us,the more information the better.You have said several times that what has been found doesn't help you find out who Eva was,but it helps us when we are looking for you. ;D
Cheers Janette
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To add to my last post Eva is not a daughter of the marriage of Elizabeth Sutherland/Charles Fraser. Have there children and who they married, plus all their children's names, and no Eva amongst them. I was thinking she may belong to another Sutherland relative in Chch that I am unaware of.
Elizabeth Sutherland from Caithness, daughter of William Sutherland and Janet Sinclair, had a brother Archibald Cook Sutherland in Chch, but no Daughter named Eva, also another brother James Sutherland, died 1871 in Chch, not married and no children, Also discovered recently another brother William was in NZ but died 1901 no marriage or children listed on death cert. The family was quite large, so may be others in Chch I know nothing about at this point in time.
Any suggestions appreciated.
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Hello,
Just need to get my head around:
Reply #3 wherein it is stated that "no idea as to who Elizabeth's parents were" and
Reply #18 which then provides the names of Elizabeth's parents.
To clarify: Are these Elizabeth's one and the same i.e. Elizabeth Fraser nee Sutherland?
Minniehaha.
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Hi minniehaha, I can understand why you are confused. When I originally posted my query I did not know at that stage who Elizabeth Fraser, nee Sutherlands parents were. Since then I have connected all the family together from BDMs, newspaper notices, electoral rolls and cemetery records etc in NZ and tried to find all the family in Caithness as well. Not an easy task and feel I may be missing some of them in Caithness. Still looking for Eva W Sutherland, friend or family, witness at wedding of Jessie Fraser in 1895.
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Attaching witness signature in case I am reading it wrong. Have not attached anything before so fingers crossed it works.
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Hi,
I have my doubts about that being Eva.W.Sutherland,there is a fullstop after each initial,the first initial may be a G,is there any other letters on the cert to compare it with?
Cheers Janette
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Difficult to tell what the name is but I have a couple of questions.
Is it a copy of (a) the original marriage certificate, i.e. the one which is signed by all the participants? This is obvious because each signature will be written in a different hand.
Or (b) is it a copy of that held by BDM? In which case most of the writing if not all, would have been done by the same hand.
You will have to try and compare the letters in the signature with the same letters written elsewhere on the document.
Minniehaha.
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Hi bper
... "well-attached" ... (a great first effort). ;D
Mmmm ... I'm just not sure that the name is "Eva W." :-\
I too had had a good look around earlier for an "Eva" (Evelyn, Eveline Evaline, etc. ) to no avail.
I'll take another closer look at the image, but my thinking is that it is a "male" signature.
* Do you have a male SUTHERLAND ... with a second initial, "W" ??
~ Lu
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Has an occupation been provided for this witness on the document. Or address?
I agree with Janette that it seems initials rather than a name has been written and the first is possibly a "G".
Minniehaha.
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My tree is on ancestry.com ......All info I have is there if anyone wants to take a look. It is public for now.
Davidson/Kingsbury and Fraser/Sutherland tree
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Is there a "George W." SUTHERLAND in the family ?
I agree first letter of signature looks like a "G" (and that there seems to be a few full stops added) but did wonder firstly if it may be an abbreviation - "Geo" (for George) ???
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I have George Alexander Sutherland born 1872 who appears to have added 3rd christian name to become George Alexander Douglas Sutherland. Have looked through NZ BDMs but can't find any other possibilities.
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So on this marriage cert. you have -
Witness : .... ? W. SUTHERLAND, New Brighton (no occupation given ?)
... who was the other witness ?
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The other witness was M. Fraser of Sydenham.. I took this to be Mary Fraser, sister of the bride, who married Robert Henry Davidson the following year.
The other witness had no occupation listed, just an address of New Brighton.
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Maybe a look at the Electoral Rolls around 1895 for the New Brighton area would find this Sutherland (man) ?
If the other witness was a woman, the chances are that Sutherland would have been a male.
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minniehaha. Will keep searching for a man..... haha
Thanks to all the others on this list who have taken time out to help me search. I am on the right track now. Learnt a valuable lesson along the way. Next time I will post a copy of the signature if I am not 100% sure, although I did think I had read it right.
Many thanks again to you all. I will post an update if I find my man.
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Had a quick look through the Electoral Rolls for 1894 for Christchurch.
Found George Alexander Douglas Sutherland living in St. Albans. This is a wee way from New Brighton but he looks to be our best bet.
The signature on the marriage certificate looks as if it has a capital letter for the first name only, that of a "G" and the other two in lower case. One being an "a" and the other may well be a small "d". With a bit of imagination, perhaps??
Minniehaha.