RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Drinda on Wednesday 12 September 12 16:18 BST (UK)
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Hi, I have been searching for the birth of my husbands paternal grandmother,
Her name was Ellen Naomi Lambert born <1872> she was a domestic cook all her working life and was known as ELLA.
We always believed she came from Middlesex and that is where I have been looking until the 1911 census came on line and that say's she came from Norwich Norfolk, but I still can't find her actual birth or Baptism.
She married to William Austin 1893 @ Bethnal Green Middx both age 21 and her father was William Lambert a Carpenter
Ellen, William and their children lived first in Leytostone Essex and then Forest Gate Essex, she died May 1950 age 78 and that age and the fact she was said to be 21 when she married points to her being born 1872.
I would be very grateful if anyone could help.
Thanking you Drinda.
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Hi
Can you post the full 1911 details please so we can check earlier census entries. There does not seem to be a matching 1901 entry with a Norfolk birthplace
Looking at the marriage cert - she appears to be Ella Naomi Lambert and the free 1911 index has an Ella Austin b 1873 living in West Ham but there is nothing on the 1881/1891 that matches her profile.
Have you found William & Ella in 1901 to check her birthplace?
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Thank you for your reply.
She is not found on the 1881/1891 census.
1901 William and 2 of the children are at home in Leytonstone Leyton but Ellen is not there, RG13 1615
I have her marriage certificate and that definitely say's Ellen Naomi and she has signed Ellen Naomi.
The 1911 say's
William Austin 38 Wanstead Essex
Ella 38 Norwich Norfolk
Florence 13 Leytonstone
William 11 " "
Edith 9 " "
Frederick 4 Forest Gate
Dorothy 6 " "
Winifred 2 " "
Reginald 2 " "
Address: 77 Huddlestone Rd, Forest Gate
Reg: District 188
Sub District 8
Emuneration District 18
Thank you Drinda
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Carol I have just looked at the parish record for the marriage and can see that say's Ella, but the certificate that I have from the GRO is a photo copy of the original certificate and that say's Ellen.
As she was known as Ella I have searched under both, there are not many Ella's found , but there are a number of Ellen's, in service or a visitor any where but not at home. She was a domestic cook for many years in hotels etc.
Drinda
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This is a bit complicated...
FamilySearch has the christening of another daughter for William and Ella: Fortrude (sic) May AUSTIN, on 22 Nov 1893 in Leyonstone. (FreeBMD has the birth as Gertrude May AUSTIN.)
I think this is her (with the wrong surname) in 1901:
RG13/1760/54/8
The Heath, Hessett, Suffolk
William LAMBERT Head 49 Hurdle Maker Thorpe Hamlet, Norwich
Susan LAMBERT Wife 52 Laundress Aylsham, Norfolk
Frederick A LAMBERT Son 17 Woodman Hessett, Suffolk
Gertrude M LAMBERT Grandaughter 7 Leytonstone, Essex
The 1911 free index has Gertrude May AUSTIN apparently still with William and Susan.
However.... on earlier censuses, William and Susan don't have a daughter Ella/Ellen/Naomi living with them ??? ??? ???
What do you think?
Rambler
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RG13/1760/54/8
The Heath, Hessett, Suffolk
William LAMBERT Head 49 Hurdle Maker Thorpe Hamlet, Norwich
Susan LAMBERT Wife 52 Laundress Aylsham, Norfolk
Frederick A LAMBERT Son 17 Woodman Hessett, Suffolk
Gertrude M LAMBERT Grandaughter 7 Leytonstone, Essex
The 1911 free index has Gertrude May AUSTIN apparently still with William and Susan.
However.... on earlier censuses, William and Susan don't have a daughter Ella/Ellen/Naomi living with them ??? ??? ???
William and Susanna have a daughter Emma Lambert born St Augustine's Norwich in the 1871 census 0yrs old. Couldn't find the baptism at St Augustine's though. The GRO records have recorded an Emma Lambert registered March Quarter 1871 Norwich 4b 105
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William and Susanna have a daughter Emma Lambert born St Augustine's Norwich in the 1871 census
I've been looking at this Emma - she shows up in 1891 as a servant in Forest Gate, West Ham, not far from Leytonstone, which is a bit of a coincidence...
So far I haven't found Emma, Ella or William Austin Jr on the 1901 census - I've got to go out now, but will have another hunt later!
Rambler
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It may be worth finding out if the registration in Norfolk was Emma or another name and mistranscribed in London when compiling the central register? On second thoughts probably not as the name is Emma in the censuses
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Thank you all for looking for Ellen/Ella for me, while I am sure this is the right Lambert family and Gertrude was there in 1901 and 1911, I am still looking at the Emma in the 1881.
Thank you Rita.
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I have found a Ellen on the 1881 census living with parents George and Maud in Hellesdon, Norwich Ellen having been born in Hellesdon Rest of the family are Elizabeth 1869 John 1873 Louisa 1876
George 1879 and Sarah 1881.
Regards
Alwina
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Thanks very much to Carole, Rambler and Kaysii for taking the time to look for "Ella" for me, I am sure that it is Emma, b 1871.
It has made it very hard because as you know her marriage at the Parish is Ella, her Gro cert: say's Ellen, all her children's birth say Ella and on top of that her death cert say's Ella.
I have now searched more on Gertrude and it has jogged my husband's memory, he can remember visiting aunt Gert in Suffolk when he was a kid.
Gert and her husband are buried in the parish churchyard at Hessett,
Can anyone tell me if the Baptism records for St Augustine are on line so that I can see if Emma had other names as well.
Thank you again Drinda.
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"The tinstaafl Transcripts Baptism Project" is a free site, just google it,
although St. Augustines hasn't been done yet.
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Yes St Augustine's baptisms are online at familysearch and I'd looked already but didn't find her there. She could have been baptised in another church that haven't been transcribed onto familysearch or free reg.
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Thank for looking for me Kaysii, I just wanted to see if she had other names as well as Emma, I just can't understand someone living all her married life and being buried with a another name, but having said that I have had problems all through my husbands tree, his gt grandfather "George" turned out to be Robert George and my husband was named George after him, but has been known as Ron all his life, his brother "David" b: 1936 went to get his birth cert to get married and found out his name was not David but Derick, his mother said the registrar who came to the hospital to register the babies must have been drunk.
Thanks again Rita.
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Hi,
My name is Dean Austin,i have recently been trying to trace my family tree,and my gt grandfather ,william albert austin married Ella naomi lambert at st.james the great church in bethnal green on the 23 july 1893.Born 1873,died 1950 west ham.I have a copy of there son william george birth certificate which is signed Ella naomi austin.
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Hi Dean, Ella Naomi was my husbands grandmother and I knew her well, William George was my father in laws brother. Ella's real name was EMMA and it took me a couple of years to find her. We think she called herself Ella when she was a domestic in Forest Gate E7 because the lady of the house was called Emma .
my husbands fathers name was Reginald Frank, I have not worked on the tree for about 2 years due to our age and I'll health, but if I can help you with anything feel free to let me know, I'm sure I have a lot stored on a external hard drive so I will dig it out.
Bye for now Rita.
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Hi Rita,
Thanks for the quick reply,my first time in here.Im waiting on the marriage certificate too,maybe give me more information on my search for even earlier Austin family,we may have originated from the devon area.I have also found records of my grandfather being in the merchant navy at age 18.I have a copy too of the 1911 census with all there children.thanks again.
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Hi Dean, As I said I have a lot of info on the Austin's and I just remembered Your 4 x grt grandfather was Robert Austin, he was born 1775 and in 1796 he was a sailor on the HMS Mentor and sailed with Lord Elgin to get the marbles from Greece , there is a long story about what happend to him and the rest of the crew.I have a copy of the ships log (you will only get this if you go to Kew and research it. If you would like a copy let me have your address and I will take it the shop to copy it because it is too large to put in my printer.
Rita.
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Rita.
That sounds fantastic.I am new to this so any information I can get will all help in the task of putting together my family tree.I really appreciate your help and thank you so much for your time.my address is 13 broadmead. Biggleswade. Beds sg18 8lf.what an interesting story too.can't wait to read it.thanks again.
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Hi Dean,
I have had a problem getting the ships log done but my daughter in law has Taken it to work and done it for me,I will post it tomorrow.
If you would like to send me your email I will send you a lot more info and photos, I will drip feed it or it will fill your inbox up.
Rita. aurosinta@talktalk.net
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Hi Drinda,
Thanks for your message,still putting together all the information of 9 generations will take a little while so no problem if there is any delay,cant thank you enough.