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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: hall and walsh on Tuesday 11 September 12 23:43 BST (UK)

Title: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: hall and walsh on Tuesday 11 September 12 23:43 BST (UK)

I am trying to establish the nature of a possible connection between three Lurgan  families  between about 1750 to 1850: the Boyds, the Greers and the Halls. I know that a Joseph Hall who died c 1793, was a distiller.   In an 1825 Vintners Guide there are refs to "James Boyd - strong ale and table beer" - the same man had a brewery in 1819.  There's also a Greer and Boyd Distillery in that guide.
 
We have found  a Joseph Halll Boyd  Esq in 1831,1835, 1840,1852), so it seems that some  Halls and Boyds did intermarry.

If anyone can shed some more light on the connections  i woul be very grateful!

Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 11 September 12 23:49 BST (UK)
PRONI shows details of Joseph Hall Boyd- "The Will of Joseph Hall Boyd late of University-square Belfast in the County of Antrim Esquire deceased who died 9 March 1861 at same place was proved at Belfast by the oaths of the Reverend Edward Hincks of Killyleagh in the County of Down Clerk James Shaw and Charles Wolfe Shaw both of Belfast aforesaid Merchants the Executors." You can click on the link for image to read the Will (6 pages) which might give clues about relatives or business interests.
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 12 September 12 10:32 BST (UK)
Charlotte, relict of Joseph Hall Boyd mentioned in this article about Shankill graveyard- "This is the burial ground of the Boyd family. On his death, James Boyd was known to have left £2371 to the poor of Lurgan."
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=75606b9b-41d8-48a6-9778-5a8d87ab0cde

Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: hall and walsh on Wednesday 12 September 12 23:26 BST (UK)
Thanks for your speedy  reponse, I will look into this. Its probably unlikely, i didnt think the halls were particularly well off, but you have given me a lead that I hadnt thought of!
Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: AndyMcElroy on Friday 14 September 12 00:08 BST (UK)
Hi, Walsh of Guernsey

In Matier's - Belfast Directory of 1835-36 there is the mention of:

Greer & Boyd, Esqrs., Distillers, Lurgan.

George Greer, Esq., Residence at Woodville,
Matthew Boyd, Esq., Lurgan, and
Samuel Greer, Esq., Lurgan.

There is no mention of a Hall family as distillers.

Link to the directory is at:
 
http://lurgan-ancestry.co.uk/index.php/street-directories-2/matiers-belfast-directory-1835/

I replied to a post by Blacckhawk, who was also tracing distillers in Lurgan, you should maybe try to contact him.

Regards,
Andy McElroy.

Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: hall and walsh on Friday 14 September 12 11:27 BST (UK)
Thanks Andy, I think i might just concentrate on the Halls for now, a connection witht the boyds or Greers now seems  rather unlikely, although I think thomas hall was a neighbour in lurgan's main street.
Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: Hall and MacCormac on Tuesday 16 December 14 07:55 GMT (UK)
I am descended from Colonel Joseph Hall of 'Hall Place' in Lurgan, County Armagh, who was said to have been a prosperous distiller with additional farmland. He invested in property with his son in law, John MacCormac (d. 1811), and was the grandfather of Dr Henry MacCormac (1800-1886), whose mother was a Hall-Mary Ann Hall (1766-1846). I read in the Belfast Journal that Joseph Hall may have fallen on hard times and this may explain why the Halls were not associated with a distillery later on.

If anyone can provide direct information on the origins of this Hall family (or indeed the MacCormac family) in the eighteenth and seventeenth century, that would be helpful. The origins of the Hall family and MacCormacs are unclear-but both, particularly the Halls, were quite well-to-do- seemingly
Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: Hall and MacCormac on Monday 22 December 14 19:53 GMT (UK)

I am trying to establish the nature of a possible connection between three Lurgan  families  between about 1750 to 1850: the Boyds, the Greers and the Halls. I know that a Joseph Hall who died c 1793, was a distiller.   In an 1825 Vintners Guide there are refs to "James Boyd - strong ale and table beer" - the same man had a brewery in 1819.  There's also a Greer and Boyd Distillery in that guide.
 
We have found  a Joseph Halll Boyd  Esq in 1831,1835, 1840,1852), so it seems that some  Halls and Boyds did intermarry.

If anyone can shed some more light on the connections  i woul be very grateful!
I am descended from Colonel Joseph Hall of 'Hall Place' in Lurgan, County Armagh, who was said to have been a prosperous distiller with additional farmland. He invested in property with his son in law, John MacCormac (d. 1811), and was the grandfather of Dr Henry MacCormac (1800-1886), whose mother was a Hall-Mary Ann Hall (1766-1846). I read in the Belfast Journal that Joseph Hall may have fallen on hard times and this may explain why the Halls were not associated with a distillery later on.

If anyone can provide direct information on the origins of this Hall family (or indeed the MacCormac family) in the eighteenth and seventeenth century, that would be helpful. The origins of the Hall family and MacCormacs are unclear-but both, particularly the Halls, were quite well-to-do- seemingly
Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: hall and walsh on Tuesday 23 December 14 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hello again - what dates to you have for Colonel Joseph Hall of Hall Place Lurgan?
I found a Joseph Hall buried in 1793 in Lurgan, might he be the same one?

Pardon my ignorance, but what would he have been a colonel of? (My knowledge of military matters is about zero)

Cheers,
Cathy
Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: Hall and MacCormac on Tuesday 23 December 14 22:15 GMT (UK)
Hello again - what dates to you have for Colonel Joseph Hall of Hall Place Lurgan?
I found a Joseph Hall buried in 1793 in Lurgan, might he be the same one?

Pardon my ignorance, but what would he have been a colonel of? (My knowledge of military matters is about zero)

Cheers,
Cathy
Wow! Thats great information. Thank you so much.

If Colonel Joseph Hall is the distiller who died in 1793, then I suspect his son, Joseph Hall, distiller, was the lunatic. However, as I stated in my previous post, I know that there is will dating from c. 1793 for a Joseph Hall, distiller, but I am not sure whether this man died in 1793 or merely proved his will in1793. In the article link I posted, there is reference to Mary Ann MacCormac, nee Hall, (1765/6-1846), the daughter of Colonel Joseph Hall, falling on hard times on the death of her husband, John MacCormac, but her not being able to rely on her near relatives, because they had their own trouble (i.e. probably the lunancy of Joseph Hall)-see p. 2 of the article link I posted.

There is more confusion over whether Colonel Joseph Hall is the 1793 Joseph Hall because in the article I posted on the MacCormacs, Henry MacCormac, the grandson of Colonel Joseph Hall through Mary Ann MacCormac, nee Hall, (1765/6-1846), stated that he rememered seeing his grandfather's house with a mill nearby and also seeing the bags of corn carried away. However, if Colonel Joseph proved his will in 1793, but died later, then these individuals (the Colonel, the Hall described as a "lunatic", Joseph Hall whose was proved in 1793) may all be one and the same.

Regardless there is strong possibility Colonel Joseph Hall died in 1793. If so I suspect that the tree would fall like this:

Colonel Joseph Hall d. 1793

Joseph Hall, distiller, fell on hard times

Joseph Hall b. 1790 in Toberhuney, Lurgan,

Joseph Hall and William John Hall-your ancestors

or if Colonel Joseph Hall was the lunatic:

Joseph Hall, distiller, 1793

Colonel Joseph Hall-fell on hard times

Joseph Hall b. 1760s/1770s

Joseph Hall b. 1790

Regardless of how I look at it, unless Colonel Joseph Hall remarried later in life, I suspect he was at best the grandfather of the Joseph Hall born in Lurgan in 1790.



Title: Re: Hall, Boyd, Greer families of Lurgan, distillers - a connection?
Post by: Hall and MacCormac on Tuesday 23 December 14 22:42 GMT (UK)
Hello again - what dates to you have for Colonel Joseph Hall of Hall Place Lurgan?
I found a Joseph Hall buried in 1793 in Lurgan, might he be the same one?

Pardon my ignorance, but what would he have been a colonel of? (My knowledge of military matters is about zero)

Cheers,
Cathy

I found this:

April 7, 1769, Page 1
Armagh District  Largan Walk
WHEREAS the private selling of Ale and Spirits in and about the Town of Lurgan is grown common, that his Majesty’s Revenue, and the publick Licensed Dealers in that Way, are great Sufferers thereby.
                We therefore whose Names are here under-written, having met together for that Purpose, do unanimously premise and agree, that we will not wittingly or willingly countenance nor wink at any such Practices, but that we to the best of our Power will thereafter endeavour to detect, prosecute and inform of all and every such unlicensed Retailers of Ale, Wine, Sider and Spirits.  Given under our Hands at Lurgan, the 25th Day of March, 1769.
Edw. Boyland, Gauger                          Joseph Hall, junr.             Wm. Hara
John Shaw                                             John Gadd?                     John Adair
Thomas Overend                                   Hugh Hall                         Pat. Crawford
Wm. Hazelton                                       Robt. Turbett                   Thos. Boyse
John Hall                                               James Brown                   RALPH BLAIR
Joseph Wilson                                        John Waite                     Eleanor Ferguson
Daniel ?????                                          John Neal                        John  ????
Robt. Bradshaw                                    James McCormick           Jos. Speer
James Fleming                                      Pat. McConnell                 Abraham Winn
Christopher Byrne                                John Pentland                     Joshua Greenale
Thos. Tipping                                       James Kenley                   John Abraham
John Irwin                                             Clatworthy Carrol            Cicily Devlin
Joseph Hall, senr.                                 Samuel Patten                   Ann Gardener     

http://www.kinsleuth.com/belnews/1760-1769.htm


So there was a Joseph Hall Sr. and a Joseph Hall Jr. both of whom were distillers in 1769.

This article form 1824 refers to another Joseph Hall possibly connected to our family: http://www.irelandoldnews.com/Cavan/1824/SEP.html