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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: SaiKung on Tuesday 11 September 12 15:19 BST (UK)

Title: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: SaiKung on Tuesday 11 September 12 15:19 BST (UK)
Can you help?  This is my brick wall, I can't seem to find any details, data on Mabel Dudman, here is some information:

Born @ 1882
In 1908 she was working at the Camberwell House Asylum as a laundry maid.

She had a son Victor who was born with the surname Barclay in 02/07/1903

On Victors birth cert Mabels last name is Barclay however I have not found a marriage cert and seem to think this was a fib.... all other documents she is a Dudman.

A daughter Gladys Dudman born 30/ 04/1906
A son George Dudman born and died 1905

Apparently Mabel had a brother Walter and sisters Milly (maybe Millicent) Lily (maybe Lilian) and Susie.
Apparently Lilian married a Massey.  Susie married a Sams.   

I am searching for any information on Mabel and her daughter Gladys, I have found information on Victor.

I can not find anything on the early census for this family unit. 

Would absolutely love some direction or advice. 

Thank you and kind regards.
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: mc8 on Tuesday 11 September 12 15:49 BST (UK)
In the 1911, Gladys is in a foster home with 10 others in a home run by Camberwell Board of Guardians

These 'scattered homes' have records held at the LMA. If you visit, some of the books are available for inspection and you may get further information on when they were admitted and if collected (sometimes this happened often dependent on the financial or family circumstances of the parents)

Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: mc8 on Tuesday 11 September 12 15:59 BST (UK)

 RG14; Piece: 2463

How did young Victor end up in Suffolk?
Class: RG14; Piece: 10671; Schedule Number: 30; .

Mabel is in Newington, with daughter aged one
Class: RG14; Piece: 1832; ; .

Births Mar 1910  DUDMAN  Ethel     Southwark  1d 22

Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: mc8 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:07 BST (UK)
she was a bit of a fibber
she indicates she is a widow with no other children..
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:35 BST (UK)

Apparently Mabel had a brother Walter and sisters Milly (maybe Millicent) Lily (maybe Lilian) and Susie.
Apparently Lilian married a Massey.  Susie married a Sams.   


Presumably this is the marriage you refer to for Susie:

Marriage, Mar qtr 1916

Susannah DUDMAN
William SAMS

Southwark 1d 21.

Has Susannah been found prior to her marriage?
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:37 BST (UK)
Given her Egham birthplace, this looks likely to be Mabel's birth registration:

Birth, Dec qtr 1884

Amy Mabel DUDMAN

Windsor 2c 469
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:39 BST (UK)
16th October 1909
Lorrimore Square St Paul,    Southwark

Lilian Mary Elizabeth Dudman spinster age 24   Father Joseph Arthur Dudman occ Coachman
Edward Albert Massey  bachelor age 40 occ Hatter Father Richard Massey (decd) occ Hatter
both resident 32 Marsland Rd.
wit Edward Carter and Mary Martha Dudman


Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: mc8 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:40 BST (UK)
Do you have Mabels birth record? the census says b Egham, but I couldn't find it

what record do you have to show her occupation in 1908?
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:48 BST (UK)
Marriage, Jun qtr 1880

Joseph Arthur DUDMAN
Mary Martha BARNARD

Windsor 2c 699
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: mc8 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:54 BST (UK)
She has left home by 1901
Lilian M Dudman, Sidney L Dudman, Edward W Dudman, Charles E Dudman and Kenneth L Dudman are with father Joseph
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 September 12 16:56 BST (UK)
Susannah Dudman Age 38 father Frederick occ  Coachman
William Sams Age 45 father Benjamin
8th January 1916
Newington -  St Andrew
Witnesses Mabel Page and Alice Page

she obviously didn't know her fathers name  ;)
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 September 12 17:04 BST (UK)
Given her Egham birthplace, this looks likely to be Mabel's birth registration:

Birth, Dec qtr 1884

Amy Mabel DUDMAN

Windsor 2c 469

This Amy M  bn Windsor is with her parents Frank and  Emily in Fulham in 1891

Another possible birth for Mabel  :-\
December qtr 1883 
DUDMAN    Mabel Alberta       
Chertsey    2a   48
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 11 September 12 17:08 BST (UK)
Susannah Dudman Age 38 father Frederick occ  Coachman
William Sams Age 45 father Benjamin
8th January 1916
Newington -  St Andrew
Witnesses Mabel Page and Alice Page

she obviously didn't know her fathers name  ;)

She seems to be with Barnard relatives in 1881 (RG11/1322/25/10) and 1891 (RG12/1009/98/10).

Perhaps her father really was a Frederick? She was born before the Joseph Dudman/Mary Martha Barnard marriage.
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 11 September 12 17:12 BST (UK)
Given her Egham birthplace, this looks likely to be Mabel's birth registration:

Birth, Dec qtr 1884

Amy Mabel DUDMAN

Windsor 2c 469

This Amy M  bn Windsor is with her parents Frank and  Emily in Fulham in 1891

Another possible birth for Mabel  :-\
December qtr 1883 
DUDMAN    Mabel Alberta       
Chertsey    2a   48

Agreed - yes, per earlier censuses she seems to have been born in Byfleet (Chertsey district) rather than Egham (Windsor district) after all.
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 September 12 17:18 BST (UK)
1891
RG12/1009 F70 P26
living Stroude Street, Egham

Mary   Dudman Married age 34 Living On Her Means bn Farnham, Surrey
George age 12 bn Egham   
Amelia age 10 bn Egham   
Albert age 8   
Mabel age 7      
Lilly age 5   
Leonard age 3      
Edward age 1 mth
younger children bn Byfleet, Surrey   

Some of the childrens names tie in  :-\
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: SaiKung on Thursday 13 September 12 03:21 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for your replies. 

MC8 ~ Your advice is perfect thank you, I will start with the search for collection of Gladys from the foster home.  I am sending letter to LMA today.  I think that this piece of information (if I can get it) will shed light on the family. 

I have found the below entries you have posted but for some reason I really don't think it is the family..... it might be...... the information I gave from the orphanage document may not be accurate (I can't imagine why it isn't).  Which makes it unreasonable to not find them in census.  ????????

I will post when I hear from the LMA.

Thank you again, greatly appreciated.

Sai
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 13 September 12 08:29 BST (UK)

I have found the below entries you have posted but for some reason I really don't think it is the family..... it might be...... the information I gave from the orphanage document may not be accurate (I can't imagine why it isn't).  Which makes it unreasonable to not find them in census.  ????????


Where did you get the information about Mabels siblings and their marriages?

Rosie
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: SaiKung on Thursday 13 September 12 10:46 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,

The information about the family is from the original orphanage document when Victor was handed in.  Unfortunately Mabel didn't hand Victor or Gladys in as she was working.  A lady that the children were staying with took them to the orphanage and it is her statement that is on the official document.  There are terrible errors in this statement that I have already uncovered regarding Victor. Gladys and Mabel are a mystery, and the family..... who knows now. 
I have sent a letter to the LMA to find out who collected Gladys out of the foster homes and what happened to her, fingers crossed this information can help my search.

Why do you ask?  Can you help?

Kind regards,
Sai
Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 13 September 12 15:14 BST (UK)
Hi Sai

Sadly at the moment I can't help any further, I just wondered why you were discounting all the other information that had been posted when you had given information on those marriages or were you just replying to MC8.

Strangely there was an Edward Dudman whose mother died and he was looked after through Barnados by my family in Bedfordshire prior to being sent to Canada - that is really why I looked at this post.  ;D

Rosie



Title: Re: Searching for Mabel Dudman
Post by: SaiKung on Thursday 13 September 12 16:47 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,

Thank you for your reply.  Edward was very lucky to have a lovely family by the sounds of things.  I hope the same was for Gladys!  Stay tuned, I will get back to you when the information comes in.

Kind regards,

Sai