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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: JCFod on Sunday 09 September 12 17:00 BST (UK)

Title: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: JCFod on Sunday 09 September 12 17:00 BST (UK)
hi wondering if anyone can help im trying to  find  parents on a John Thomas Birch born 1853 i believe in cheshire

also   he had a wife called mary born 1851  which is all i know which one day  took her son fredrick birch born 1870 to school at the age of 2  and never returned to pick him up or heard from again

any help on this will be wonderful
thanks in advance :)

Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 09 September 12 17:17 BST (UK)
Hi

It would help us if you could give us some details, working backwards is normally easiest for us so where do you have Frederick in the census?

Rosie
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: JCFod on Sunday 09 September 12 19:02 BST (UK)
hi rosie sorry bout that  john thomas was born in bucks
but fredrick was  london found him in  1911 census with his wife elizabeth  ( Fredrick aged 42 born in London, living at 95 Nashville St in Salford, occupation ship’s rigger) but cant find anything on his mother mary

Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: mosiefish on Sunday 09 September 12 19:23 BST (UK)
Hi,

Are you sure you have the correct Frederick on the 1911 census?

I am fairly sure that he married Elizabeth Ann Bratt at St Lukes Salford and his father was named as Robert Birch, Moulder:

Marriage: 6 Aug 1906 St Luke, Weaste, Lancashire, England
Frederic Birch - 38 years Seaman Widower of 32 Leopold St.
Elizabeth Ann Bratt - 35 years Spinster of 32 Leopold St.
Groom's Father: Robert Birch, Moulder
Bride's Father: William Bratt, (deceased), Jeweller
Witness: Fred Hargreaves; Rose Flear
Married by Banns by: W. L. Cottrell

Mo
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: JCFod on Sunday 09 September 12 21:14 BST (UK)
ok now im stumped

fredrick birch  b 1895 married hilda bernice carling b 1896 (great granfather)
son
fredrick birch b 1870 married elizabeth ann bratt b 1869 (2nd great granfather

fredrick's father  which we thou was john thomas birch b 1853 wife mary
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: heywood on Sunday 09 September 12 21:27 BST (UK)
Hello,

1871 has a Frederick G Birch aged 6 months born Chesham Bucks.
His parents are John and Mary.

1871   1394/104/10

Unfortunately, John and Mary were born abt 1834 and 1831.

Where do you get their years of birth from?

Not him- married someone else

heywood
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: JCFod on Sunday 09 September 12 22:02 BST (UK)
hi
 im sure my mother  was told them by one of the relations but i will check up on  this

i know  fredrick b 1885  and hidra bernice carling are right names also
fredrick b 1870 and  elizabeth ann bratt

it could be the name john thomas  thats wrong  wasnt sure  who he married just that fredrick b 1870 mother left him at school age 2 and never came back no one  knows what happened to her or when she went:(
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 09 September 12 22:10 BST (UK)
Age 2 was young to go to school wasn't it or do you mean she took him to a random school and left him there  :(
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: JCFod on Sunday 09 September 12 22:17 BST (UK)
it could be some sort of nursery of some kind  :(
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: heywood on Sunday 09 September 12 22:22 BST (UK)
If Frederick was born 1895  - his mother couldn't have been Elizabeth Ann Bratt.

Do you have his mother's name or a birth certificate/ place of birth?
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 09 September 12 22:27 BST (UK)
If John Thomas and Mary were born 1853 and 1851 then they were young parents 19 and 17 to be married with son Frederick by 1870  :-\

Or did Frederick just belong to Mary as she was older and maybe couldn't look after him?  Too many questions but little Frederick should hopefully still be with his parents/mother in 1871 census before she gave him up.
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: mosiefish on Sunday 09 September 12 22:38 BST (UK)
i know fredrick b 1885 (should be 1895) and hidra bernice carling are right names also
fredrick b 1870 and elizabeth ann bratt


Oh dear something is sadly incorrect.

Marriage at St Mary Todmorden
12th July, 1916
Frederick Birch, 22, Bachelor, Joiner, 28 Pine Road, Todmorden, Father John Thomas Birch, Core Maker
Hilda Burnice Carling, 23, Spinster, Winder, 28 Pine Road, Todmorden, Father Robert Carling (deceased) Dyer
Witnesses: Alfred Wright and Mary Jane Wright X

So if this is the correct marriage then Frederick born 1894 ish was the son of John Thomas Birch not a Frederick Birch as in the 1911 census you posted.

Mo
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: heywood on Sunday 09 September 12 22:54 BST (UK)
It's becoming quite complicated isn't it.


1901 3557/ 100/ 6   Wigan

John Thomas Birch Core Maker b Bolton - with a son Frederick 6 yrs
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: mosiefish on Sunday 09 September 12 23:00 BST (UK)
Now that looks much better.

Great find.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: heywood on Sunday 09 September 12 23:09 BST (UK)
 Going back from that chap - this is just a possibility I hasten to add  ;)

1901 John Thomas Birch b abt 1866 Bolton

1881 John Thomas - parents Thomas (abt 1840) and Mary A

1871 John T 'Bouich' parents Thomas and Ellen

Is there a story there?

Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: heywood on Monday 10 September 12 16:11 BST (UK)
hi rosie sorry bout that  john thomas was born in bucks
but fredrick was  london found him in  1911 census with his wife elizabeth  ( Fredrick aged 42 born in London, living at 95 Nashville St in Salford, occupation ship’s rigger) but cant find anything on his mother mary



Even more confusion:
1901 has a Frederick Birch (Brich) b 1860, Ireland who is a ship's rigger. Wife is Adelaide and son Frederick 7 yrs.  They are living in Pendleton (Salford).
Title: Re: John Thomas Birch & mary
Post by: JCFod on Wednesday 12 September 12 18:46 BST (UK)
thank you everyone and also to who found that there could be something not right on this post i have been looking for  over a day trying to ssort this out ( still haven't  but today  from frederick daughter  that her grandfather was a john thomas  but  couldnt remember  his wifes name

she also says fredrick birch born 1895 father was john thomas birch and that fredrick also had  a sister called ella  ( no date of birth) who  went over to russia in ww1 to sell flags to the russian's  to which she never returned
i have come up blanks this branch is very  frustrating