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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: tonyrodaway on Sunday 09 September 12 09:14 BST (UK)
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hi everyone , I am researching home burials for the LIVERPOOL PALS in time for the opening of the new memorial in LIMES STREET, we hope to list and index all 2800 who died in the great war, we are down to the last 20 ,and need help with headstone photo,s for these 2 in the Lancashire, area,
most are buried in commonwealth graves or family plots
J A MERCER DOW 20/07/1916 ASHTON BY SUTTON (ST PETERS)
F KIRKMAN DIED 17/11/1918 BOLTON HEATON COM/
kind regards tony
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I'll have a look for Porter at Tox. pk.
A
PS. I have found this on a site listing inscriptions and post it here in case the stone is still face down:
C 6 PORTER. (C.K.748)
Large sand-stone, small round top, square mantle shoulders, lying flat on its face. In memory / of / my beloved husband / Mo PORTER, / of Egremont, Cumberland, / who died 9th April 1891, / aged 27 years. / Also of William, (Willie) / only son of the above, / 1st Batt. City Pals, / invalided home from France, / and died at Formby 19th April 1916, / aged 27 years. / He gave his life for his country.
I shall look in a day ortwo.
A
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hi ainslie, i will see what more I can find for you but i am pushed for time today ,so i will get back to you later, thanks for your reply, tony
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Hello Tony
went and had a look for G A Turton in Widnes Cemetery but without any luck.
His grave location is in section C which seems to be part of the Garden of Rememberance and as such all markers have been removed. I did have a look at the side sections just in case but there were not many markers still standing, this area is part of the old section of the cemetery.
George Turton is mentioned in the book 'I Dont Want To Be A Sunbeam' written by Harry Jones, which covers all the deaths of soldiers from Widnes who served in the conflict. it gives a brief description of who he was, the regiments he served in and his death.
Sorry cannot help you further
Geoff W
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Hi
Wallasey and Birkenhead are in Cheshire not Lancashire, perhaps it might be best to post a message on the Cheshire board for those graves
Andy
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Burial details
Moses Porter
aged 27 years
a gentleman,
abode 37 Coltart Road
buried 13th April 1891
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William Porter
aged 27 years
a salesman
abode Belfayre Jubilee Formby
22nd April 1916
conformist section c grave 748
other name sin this grave are Hubbard ,Benson and Moffat
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thank you all, its all good information I needed,
andy I know WALLASEA AND BIRKENHEAD ARE IN CHESHIRE,
I will post the request in the cheshire section, it was just one big rush for me yesterday, thank you all, tony
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Tony
Porter at Toxteth Park Cem. Found the stone, but it was as described, face down with only the plot number showing. I took a photo but you may not want it without the details
I spoke to a man in the nearby firm of masons and asked for a very rough idea of the cost of turning the stone over, not for remounting it. Without seeing it, he said perhaps £150. I think permission would be needed for any work on it.
The people who made the website where the inscription was found may have a photo and I have lodged a request.
A
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How sad that it is face down,and it has to be paid for to be restored ,such disrespect for a soldier,it makeds my blood boil,I wonder if the war graves commision would be able to assist in it being put back safely into position,
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That rough price was only for turning the headstone. Re- erecting would need stainless pins and more work, so even higher cost.
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CHEERS,ainslie , a large section in west derby are the same, i went to find my g/g/grandfathers that's turned over, but how many have been pushed over by vandals ? if the corporations turned them over they should at least turn them face up, I don't think a photo would be of any use its the information on the headstone that's needed and thats on your other post, thanks for your time ainslie, if i can help you out, shout out, regards tony.
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,I wonder if the war graves commision would be able to assist in it being put back safely into position,
CWGC charter states that they should maintain the casualty commemoration in perpetuity. This means that the commemoration of the man should be visible. An upturned stone is clearly not, so I would drop them a line with details of the stone, and preferably a picture.
This email address should do the trick.
casualty.enq[-- at --]cwgc.org
They will pass details on to the area inspector and when he is next in the vicinity of the cemetery, he will check the stone. If any remedial work needs to be done, he will arrange for it to take place. But be warned - it could be quite a long time before anything happens.
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
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hi Stephen, this is a family grave, not a cwgc .cheers tony
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Sorry, with the thread being titled "Home Burials", I assumed that was what was being referred to. I now see that he is in Kut and therefore it must just be an inscription on a family stone. Is that correct?
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CWGC should still be informed in case they feel an alternative form of commemoration is warranted.
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hi stephen, that's correct, he dow not sure on the inscription the headstones face down, along with plenty of others, i think the powers that be need to turn these headstones face up, people spent a lot of money on stone masons engraving the family details for their loved ones, to be remembered not to be forgotten as they will be ,
imber, i have posted to the cwgc regarding a family plot headstone thats broken and no way of knowing a solider is buried there, but it also involves the family of the soldier.
cheers, tony
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CWGC should still be informed in case they feel an alternative form of commemoration is warranted.
His official commemoration (by CWGC) is in Kut War Cemetery, and so CWGC will not maintain any other commemoration for him.
There are many instances of men buried overseas, but whose families have an inscription on a local headstone to remember the casualty. These are not official commemorations and are not maintained by CWGC.
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Sorry, I hadn't picked up on the fact that he's not actually a home burial. As a former CWGC employee I agree that they have fulfilled their remit and that this is really a family matter.
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Stephen
Where is the Kut link? Porter died after wounds in France.
From all the evidence there is unlikely to be any surviving family living locally, therefore no-one to pay for the restoration of the headstone.
A
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stephen, my apologies, just got over the flu bug head not in full gear,
I never read your second post correct, when replying correct, I was referring to the family headstone ,
my search is for LIVERPOOL PALS,
WILLIAM PORTER died of wounds 19/04/16 , at home ,
apologies to all of you, tony
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Sorry guys, I assumed we were talking about this man
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/638069/PORTER,%20W%20G
who is the only canidarte I could locate on CWGC.
Are we therefore saying that he is not commemorated by CWGC, depsite dying of wounds, which would make him a candidate for In From The Cold project?
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I would say yes to that stephen with a clear head , we need more information, then we shall bring him in tony
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we are down to the last 20 ,and need help with headstone photo,s for these 5 in the Lancashire, area,
most are buried in commonwealth graves or family plots
HELP STILL NEEDED FOR,
J A MERCER DOW 20/07/1916 ASHTON BY SUTTON (ST PETERS)
F KIRKMAN DIED 17/11/1918 BOLTON HEATON COM/
kind regards tony
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Good afternoon Tony
I notice that you are still showing a request for G A Turton, have another look in your in tray I sent the photos and information on him last week.
Geoff W
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sorry geoff, your right, I have removed him as well,
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Hi all,
I was just about to start a non-commemoration query on the GWF for William Porter but came across your thread, if you've got it covered I'll drop it!
I don't have any further information for you but would add that, as I understand it, the record posted by Radcliff (copied below) is from the actual burial records so this is W Porter's grave, not just an inscription.
William Porter
aged 27 years
a salesman
abode Belfayre Jubilee Formby
22nd April 1916
conformist section c grave 748
Amanda
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hi Amanda, Along with the Liverpool pals memories fund , we are in the process of getting the documents together to see if we can bring him in along with one other ,a posting will be put on the Liverpool pals memorial fund face book page , as soon as we put in the paper work needed, kind regards tony
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there seems to be a mix up with the cause of death,pte 15260 william porter didnt die of wounds,he died of phthisis,the same illness that killed his father at the same age,he enlisted on 1-9-1914,17th kings liverpool regt,aged 26,occupation cotton salesman,resided 2 eastfield drive,aigburth,liverpool,his mother mary,ellen remarried and became mrs mary,ellen moffitt,she later moved to "taunton",the park,hampstead,london.
williams illness wasnt caused by any kind of active service,but the doctors said it was aggravated by active service,he was that ill,they couldnt even weigh him to see how much weight he,d lost.aggravated by active service qualifies him for CWGC status
the question of residency in his burial details could be the sanatorium he was a patient in????
mack ;D
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I would have guessed Sanatorium as he died of TB but a quick query on the Liverpool & SW Lancs FHS forum has provided the information that the 1911 census shows Belfayre to be a private residence on Jubilee Road, Formby.
I suppose it could have been a small nursing home in 1916 or the house of a family member, I know we don't need to know but it's always nice to fill in details!
Good to know he's eligible, thanks for the update. :)
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the CWGC cannot do anything about pte porters headstone,hes not commemorated by them,they can only intervine when his details have been sent to them and passed for eligibility,his pension record[on ancestry] and death cert are needed,if he qualifies,then they will either erect a CWGC headstone or add his name to the screen wall within the cemetery
mack
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I was assuming his name would go on the screen wall as there are spaces available. It's a shame nothing can be done about the existing family headstone but at least the details have been recorded so it hasn't been lost as so many others have.
Amanda