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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: gemmaallen1977 on Saturday 08 September 12 17:45 BST (UK)
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I have been trying without success to decipher the name of the groom's father so that I can trace Charles Collins birth and family. Please can anybody help I can see that it is James ??? Collins. I don't even know where Charles Collins is from as he was in the Army so he could have been based in Woolwich but potentially born anywhere!!! The groom, Charles Collins, apparently disappeared not long into the marriage after their child had been born and and apparently absconded from the Army as well and nothing was ever heard about him again!?
Any help or ideas on this would be greatly appreciated. Gemma
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I think it looks like Furzewell although the F is not the same as written in RAF
Di
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I agree with Di on both points.
I can only suggest that you find out what records the Royal Artillery have on CC and also what the Royal Navy have on JC. It is possible that JC died during WW1.
Edward
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One further thought is that 'Furzewell' or something very similar may well be the maiden name of JC's mother.
It may be worth looking for Collins' marriages to see if there is any match, long shot but may pay off.
Edward
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Or it could be Kingswell
Dawn M
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I agree with Dawn, I read it as 'Kingswell'.
Alexander
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Looking at Dawns suggestion, it certainly could be Kingswell.
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Comparing it to other letters used on the certificate it seems to me that the first letter of the middle name comes closer to M than any other letter - note the long downstroke for the right hand side. It is odd though that, in an otherwise easy to read certificate, that one word should be so hard. Hannah
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Not that it helps,but ???INGSWELL as well from me.
The "ng" in England are the same and when you look carefully you can see the dotted "i". The first letter really has to be a "K" doesn't it?
Don't envy you on this one,Gemma.
Maureen
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I don't even know where Charles Collins is from as he was in the Army so he could have been based in Woolwich but potentially born anywhere!!!
Any help or ideas on this would be greatly appreciated. Gemma
Hello gemmaallen1977
Charles is age 19 on his 1923 marriage certificate so born about 1904.
His fathers occupation is Stoker R.N. (Royal Navy). There is an entry on Free BMD registered June quarter 1904 Portsmouth 2b 538 for a Charles Collins.
Have you looked at the 1911 census for Portsmouth? There is a Collins family with a son Charles age 6 and a visitor with the surname of Kingswell.
Collins is a very difficult name to research because of the high number of entries in all resources. Kingswell on the other hand is very uncommon and it's very fortunate to have been included on the marriage certificate. Hampshire has the highest number of Kingswell entries by far in the England census concentrating in the Isle of White and Portsmouth areas. This may be the area you are looking for.
Good Luck.
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I used the link shown in your recent thread and looked at this one.
You made no comment after toastbutler's post on 11/9/2012 - did you follow up on this?
First of all, as with most of the other suggestions for the middle name of James, I agree that the name is Kingswell and it really seems too much of a coincidence for an Ellen Collins and 4 children which included a Charles Collins who was born, as detailed, in 1904 whose age matches exactly with the Charles you seek, to have a Kingswell living with them! Other searches show that this man was a Stoker in the Royal Navy.
You really need to look at the 1911 census referred to - we are not allowed to post details of this particular census - as I think it is crucial to your research.
I also think you need to get the birth certificate of Charles (or one his siblings who had 2 Christian names) to a) determine whether fathers' name is James Collins and b) establish who precisely Ellen was in an effort to find a marriage.
By 1911 Ellen could have been separated from her husband and 'Kingswell' (who just happened to have the same occupation as your Charles' given father) may have been more than a boarder!! Charles may well have incorporated Kingswell into his fathers name if Kingswell had become a father figure. Who can say at this stage.
In 1901 at Royal Navy, Hampshire there was a James Collins 31 Stoker b. Scotland, shown as married, on Duke of Wellington - could this maybe be James? (ref.RG13 - 1000 - 44 - 4).
I cannot see a likely marriage for an Ellen born in timeframe/place of later census and it's equally possible they may not have been legally married although lived as such. It is, therefore, important to establish Ellen's maiden name to ascertain where she was in 1901 - not found under the surname Collins anyway.
If Ellen's husband/Charles' father was indeed a James he may well have abandoned his family, a trait that Charles seems to have inherited.
I really do think you need to pursue this family if you haven't already done so.
Annette