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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Haylestorm on Friday 07 September 12 14:27 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have just come across my great great grandfathers ww1 record and there are no children listed that he is responsible for.
It states his apparent age at this time is 44, then in the 1911 census he is 46 where children are listed as they were in previous censuses. But this time along with an adopted daughter of 6 years. Would there be any reason why his children wouldn't be on there at all? His wife is listed as next of kin.
I have never researched any war records before and there all a bit confusing to me so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Hayley
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Hi Hayley
WWI didn't start until 1914, so one possibility is that you are looking at 2 different men
If you'd like to give us some names, date & references, we might be able to help :)
Linda
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Hi,
I've just been trying to work on the dates. I don't think the Army record has his correct age yet all other details for him are correct. He more than likely lied about his age to take part?
His name is Leonard Reeves, i've attached one of the records for him below for 1915. On another page it says he is 44 and 8 months. The 1911 census I have for him is correct as the same wife is listed along his children all in previous cencuses. In 1911 his age is 46 which is correct as he was born 1865 and like you say the war was from 1914 so on his war record it should state his age as 49.
But although he has children during the war would be adults I can understand them not being listed yet the adopted daughter is listed in the 1911 census so if he was still responsible for her should she be listed.
If you need any more info let know which bits
Thanks,
Hayley
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I've just remembered that formal adoption did not exist in England and Wales until 1927
I wonder if the Army did not recognise 'adopted' children
Try changing the title of this thread to something like
Did the Army recognise 'adopted' children in 1915?
It might catch the eye of someone who knows about these things :)
Linda
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Okay, will do. Thanks for your help.
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I think it would depend on who the child was. If she was a blood relative - a niece, other family member etc., for whom he had taken overall responsibility, then I think she would be treated as one of his own by the army. But if she had other family of her own then they would not necessarily do that - they would look at the circumstances of her being cared for by this man. It would be worth finding out who she was and where she had come from - the fact she was in the house on census night does not necessarily mean that she lived there permanently or remained there - by wartime she might have moved on or even died.
Sue
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Hi,
I've sent off for the birth certificate to see if that sheds any light on who she is because no one in the family knows anything about it that's why I wondered if she was there for the night. But then she is listed as adopted daughter age 6, in 1911 I wasn't sure what that meant fully. Her surname doesn't match anyone in the family I can find do far like aunts and uncles and as it's 1911 I can't do much searching further on yet about where she went... That's why I looked at the army record to see if she would be listed there.
Thanks for your help.
Hayley
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I have the birth certificate now she is called Sophia Ashton b.8/10/1904 on 78 New John Street West. Sub district of St.George Birmingham.
Father: Albert Ashton - Warehouseman
Mother: Amy Ashton nee. Davis living at the address above. She had marked with a x. Metal Dealers.
Registered on the 29/12/1904
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I think your next move is to track the Ashtons back and see if they overlap with the Reeves family. Give us a shout if you want help :)
Linda
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There's a death of an Albert Ashton
Mar 1908
Ashton Albert 40 Birmingham 6d 98
and an Amy Ashton
Jun 1910
Ashton Amy 42 Birmingham 6d 55
Still looking for them on the 1901 census & for a marriage.
LATER:
Albert Ashton 6d 85 Jul-Aug-Sep 1886 Birmingham Warwickshire
Amy Davis 6d 85 Jul-Aug-Sep 1886 Birmingham Warwickshire
so they should be on the 1891 & 1901 census as a couple.
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Hi
It looks like Sophia Emigrated to Canada
Ontario Canada Marriages 1801-1928
Sophia Ashton
Birth Place Birmingham, England
Age: 19
Father Albert Ashton
Mother Amy Davis
Spouse Frederich House
Age: 23
Spouse Birth Place Hamilton Ont
Father Name: George Frederich House
Mother Name: Lousia Burkholder
Marriage Date 5 Apr 1924
Marriage County or District: Wentworth
Margp
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Well spotted Marg.
Who were the witnesses to Leonard & Caroline's marriage? What was Caroline's maiden surname?
Josey
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Hi
Familysearch as this Marriage
Leonard Reeves b 1864
Caroline Owens b 1865
Married 6 Sept 1866 St Peter and St Paul Aston Warwick
Brides Father Francis Owens
Grooms Father Thomas Reeves
Both Single
Marg
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Hi,
I've sent off for the birth certificate to see if that sheds any light on who she is because no one in the family knows anything about it that's why I wondered if she was there for the night. But then she is listed as adopted daughter age 6, in 1911 I wasn't sure what that meant fully. Her surname doesn't match anyone in the family
Hayley
In those days there was a lot of unofficial adoptions and in poor areas babies were bought and sold. It occasionally happened that a man whose wife [or partner] had died in childbirth passed the baby to someone better able to mind it and the loan became with the passage of time an unofficial adoption, with usually a childless couple involved, posing as an aunt and uncle. I would hazard a guess that when people sorted 'these things' out for themselves they did a better job of it than modern day Social Services. I had an uncle who was sold and bought for £5-00 as a baby, and no one thought it unusual. This was in Middlesbrough, which is one of those say-no-more- towns-where nothing that happened surprised anyone.
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Hi
Sophia returned to England in 1956, the address given where she was staying was 159 Hurlington Rd Birmingham, is this address familiar to you.
Margp
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Hi everyone,
My laptop charger has broke so I'm having to use my phone for Internet at the moment and as you can imagine cant really do much searching etc on there. But I just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who's searched and found things I really appreciate it and didn't expect it, i was hoping for suggestions of where to look at most so thank you. Once I'm back online I'll take a look at everything in more detail and follow things up. it is certainly one fascinating aspect of my tree.
Just a quick thing I wanted to check is about the marriage witnesses, is it possible to find out the marraige witnesses? Only this would help with another family member I have.
Thank you again to everyone! I really do appreciate all this.
(There is another post i made concerning the Ashton's in the warwickshire board purely because I thought someone from there might recognise the family so if you see this same post twice i've just copied this message to explain my Internet circumstance!
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As far as I know you can only find out marriage witnesses from a copy of the certificate or the actual register.
GRO ref:
Sep 1886 Aston 6d 311
Josey
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Hi
I have related this to your other topic so things don't get duplicated
Margp
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Hi MargP thank you :)
I've managed to get laptop power for a bit. Thanks Josey, I didn't realise that.
Hi
It looks like Sophia Emigrated to Canada
Ontario Canada Marriages 1801-1928
Sophia Ashton
Birth Place Birmingham, England
Age: 19
Father Albert Ashton
Mother Amy Davis
Spouse Frederich House
Age: 23
Spouse Birth Place Hamilton Ont
Father Name: George Frederich House
Mother Name: Lousia Burkholder
Marriage Date 5 Apr 1924
Marriage County or District: Wentworth
Margp
If Sophia married in Canada I wondered if the family moved there before and left sophia in b'ham until they were settled as i've heard of that sort of thing before. I've just done a quick search on ancestory of Albert Ashton b.1867 (i've searched and searched dates, this seems to re-occur so using that as a main date to work around) on the 1911 census for Canada and there is one birth date 1864 living in Ontario South but I can't view it as I don't have the world wide account. No luck with Amy though. So i'm not too sure.
I've searched birth/death etc but Albert Ashton is a popular name. On family search there were baptism records in Birmingham possible parents names Thomas Ashton & Mary or Joseph Ashton & Jemima but in census's so far i'm having trouble tracking them. Thomas Ashton can be found in the 1881 census with Albert in Birmingham but i'm not sure if they are even his parents.
Hi
Sophia returned to England in 1956, the address given where she was staying was 159 Hurlington Rd Birmingham, is this address familiar to you.
Margp
Hurlington road doesn't but there is a burlington road in birmimgham small heath/yardley area.
Thanks again to everyone!
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The 1911 Canada census shows for Albert Ashton living in Fisher, Oshawa, Ontario South:
Albert Ashton 47 born USA
Ellen Ashton 43 born USA
Joseph Ashton 19 born USA
Gertrude 16 born USA [Hester aged 5 on 1901]
William 13 born USA
Year of Immigration 1894.
So not your man.....
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Ahh, thanks for that josey! Was worth a shot.