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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: miildredmartha on Wednesday 05 September 12 23:44 BST (UK)
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Hi from an Obit of great gran DEC1927 I have two people who are related to her.
She was Elizabeth Abbott nee Roberts.
Her obituary says
Mrs Pearson and Mrs Stephen Hughes,
very oblique I know but I believe Elizabeth's mother or her aunt was a Sarah Roberts from Ruthin .. who marr a Stephen Hughes of Wepre Connahs quay.1862 ish ... This is a huge brick wall for me. On my great gran all I have is her giving birth to Sarah Ellen Roberts Sept 1872 StAsaph union .
Who marries as Abbott .. Lives in Llannefydd as Jones dies as Mrs Owen .Ann. Jones was the Grannie should be Abbott as mother of Thomas Abbott but seems to have returned to m/s of Jones tenant Bryn Chapel house Llannefydd
There was another child born Connahs Quay Mary Ann Abbott 1878. Not on 1881 census. But appears to be a grand child of a Richard Evans and Jane Abergele
census born Rhyl.? Elizabeth is in Bedford street Rhyl with no children or I may add husband Thomas - Abbott.
Anyone out there related please.?ANYONE
I have been I'll Over the last few yrs so not done a lot ,and now losing my sight so any help would be great , thanks MM
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I have some "bare bones" that look promising,with the conclusion that Elizabeth Abbott(nee Roberts) is probably the illegitimate(?)child of Sarah Roberts,possibly from Ruthin as follows:-
Elizabeth Abbott,the wife of Thomas Abott(born Llanefydd) as in the 1891 census,living at Bedford Street,Rhyl(ref. 4627 42 9),is given as born Denbigh1852,and on the 1881 census as born 1854.(Sarah Ellen born 1872 is with them in 1891).Elizabeth who dies in 1927 is given as age 74,therefore born circa 1853.
There is a baptismal record for Elizabeth Roberts in Denbigh 1853,describing her as "base born" to Sarah Roberts and Thomas Roberts(not identified),of Mount Pleasant.
In 1861 Sarah Roberts,living at Mount Pleasant,marries Stephen Hughes at St.Hilary's Denbigh.Her father is given as Robert Roberts,though his profession is somewhat illegible.
The family may be that at Well Street Ruthin in 1841 ref 1404 23/35 25
Stephen and Sarah Hughes are to be found
1871 5643 77 23 Wepre
1881 5505 90 46 Northop
Amongst their chidren is Stephen Hughes,given as born 1866 in the census and perhaps it is his wife(or if he had a son Stephen,then his wife) who is referred to in the notice
Although I can't find a marriage,there is a Robert Pearson(born 1850 Scotland)
who is married to a Sarah Elizabeth(unidentified) born Wepre/Connahs Quay circa 1859( a pre marriage child of Sarah and Stephen?).Robert Pearson is in the police and ends up as inspector in Rhyl in 1911,living previously in Overton and Northop.There must be a reasonable chance that this is the family of Mrs Pearson
I'll see if I can flesh this out some more if you think I am on the right lines.
Regards
Rogher
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There is a marriage at Chester St John in 1879 of a Robert Pearson and a Sarah E Garrett.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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This Sarah Elizabeth "Garratt" was the daughter of a Stephen Garratt and a Sarah Latham who married at Northop in 1847.Stephen Garratt was a Mariner.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Yes,that looks like her(with apologies to Sarah and Stephen Hughes!)
1871 5643 80 30
Sarah Eliz Garratt age 12 "near Hare and Hounds Wepre" with family.
Regards
Roger
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I believe the Garratt family were later connected with descendants of the Richard Conway born c 1786 in Flint whose baptism is very elusive.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I may have an answer to one more aspect of the query,that of Mary A Abbott appearing as grand daughter to Richard and Jane Evans(1881 census ref 5531 9 11)
Mary Ann Abbott's birth in 1878 is registered in the Flint area and the baptism is to Thomas and Elizabeth of Wepre which appears straight forward,though I haven't found the wedding of Thomas and Elizabeth(assumed to be Sarah's daughter born 1853 Denbigh-see later)
Elizabeth by 1881 is living in Rhyl,hence,perhaps,the birth location given for Mary Ann.
Jane Evans,is,I believe the second wife of Richard Evans,who marries a Jane Roberts in 1867(hence the son Thomas 1869).Jane Roberts,I further think is the widow of Ellis Roberts of Ruthin,son of Robert Roberts the shoemaker and therefore brother to Sarah.He is born in 1819(family at Prior Street) and does not appear with the family on early censuses.
This means that Mary Abbott is a "grand" relative but not directly a "grand daughter"......unless.....Ellis and Jane(nee Jones) Roberts have a daughter called Elizabeth born 1850............
Later modification.Might need a rethink on above,have found Ellis and Jane still together in 1871.
Regards
Roger
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Sarah Ellen Roberts,born 1872,assumes her mothers married name and marries a Robert Owen(born Liverpool according to census)in 1894.
They are to be found in 1901 in Llanfair Is Gaer,Port Dinorwic ref 5270 8 7,but return to live with their family at 59 Wellington Road Rhyl,together with Thomas and Elizabeth Abbott and family.
I'm not sure of your references to"lives in Llanefydd as Jones" "Grannie" etc.
Regards
Roger
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The 1861 census for Llanefydd is missing but there is a death of Anne Abbots(sic) St Asaph registration district 1862.Perhaps this is Thomas' mother.
Regards
Roger
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Hello again Roger and Wow......
You managed such a lot for me..and you have my thanks x
When I said Sarah Ellen was a Jones in the 81 census she was. With her gran Ann Jones at Bryn Chapel Llannefydd as G Daughter. Who I am sure is Thomas's mother,
Sarah in later life lived in the school house Llannefydd ie 1940 s she spoke welsh as a first language.
You have maybe unravelled some thing in Abergele Richard Evans was married twice not sure of his 1st wife's name.
But his 2nd says she was a spinster! Born Penmaenuchaf Lysfaen father David Roberts, her name Jane Roberts. Evan Evan Davies & x of Ellenor Davies 13 DEC 1867Witnessed, Carmel chapel Conway both lived in lysfaen Jane 43 Richard 42 I've had this cert since 04"(and didn't do as well as you)
Re Thomas and Elizabeth I have the cert for them as marrying as Herbert in Connahs quay DEC 1872" this prob was why Sarah Ellen marr as Abbott as her mum removed her from the union st Asaph before baptism,
Stephen Hughes was a witness ..seems he was either stepfather or bros to Elizabeth Roberts.Mary Ann Abbott was def the daughter within marriage and born by the Old Smithy Wepre.
I was very lucky to find the Hughes link. The Tom Abbott jun went to Canada after he marr a Sophia Evans. ( he left her in the lurch). Seems to have marr there and had a daughter Dorothy .Rhyl wife still alive. But he died in Windsor Ontario his D Cert gives his Mothers name as Elizabeth **Hughes!***,father Tom Abbott Rhyl.
St Asaph Union gives mother as Roberts. Elizabeth marr as it.
But some where there is this link to Pearson . Half sis ?
At my Dads funeral 1947
There are cousins Mrs E farley Garnet st .Mr & Mrs Hughes Abbey st Rhyl. Mr &Mrs J Green Balmoral Grove..
Don't know if this helps but I was just little when he died. He was 33 years old
Once again I think we are both right that Sarah Roberts was Elizabeth's Mum .
Again I must thank u x my sight is only partial and with this ipad it makes a huge diff to how I see.so your help is invaluable .
Mary alias MM
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Hi Roger
We have not "spoken" before but I have seen your posts regarding the Pearsons of Connahs Quay and although I was aware of there being a link to my family - ( I have my great great grandmother - Elizabeth Roberts - obituary and so saw the mourners who attended her funeral ) - There is still quite a lot of confusion with regards to this family - Elizabeths daughter - Sarah Ellen is my great grandmother so I have a lot of info there. Are the Pearsons . Hughes in your family history or were you researching for Mary? ( I was in contact with her a few years ago when I started researching that branch of my tree )
Look forward to hearing from you
Regards
Debe
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They are not part of my family,I was just trying to help.From memory there was some further PM correspondence.I would have to review it to see if there was any significant other speculation or conclusion,if it is of further interest-you may have come to a different conclusion of course - as you say there was considerable doubt.
Regards
Roger