RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: maggiegorey on Monday 03 September 12 15:05 BST (UK)
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Hi
Im new - only signed up today.
Ive made fairly good progress with the family but have trouble in tracing my late FIL family.
There is a Elizabeth Harding on the 1911 census, working for the Tottenhams in Ballycurry Demesne.
As far as I can figure out, she would be my FIL aunt, although we think he didnt know of her existence.
How can I find what happened to her?
Ive tried IFHF, but no records.
Cant find anything on a passenger list, and cant find a death cert.
Please help.
Maggie
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for reference here's a link that 1911 census return :
Tottenham household, Ballycurry Demesne, Co. Wicklow (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Killiskey/Ballycurry_Demesne/897961/)
IFHF/RootsIreland has mostly parish records, and covers up to about 1900 for most areas.
For more recent Civil records the BMD Index would be a better bet...
see: Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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possible match for Elizabeth with family in 1901 - as 'Bessie'
Harding household, Ballyedmonduff, Co. Dublin (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Glencullen/Ballyedmonduff/1316364/)
S.
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There's a marriage on the BMD Index of an Elizabeth Harding that might be worth checking out if you havn't already. It took place somewhere in Rathdown District, which is the one which covers south east Co. Dublin and north Co. Wicklow and includes Glencullen etc.
Ballycurry where Elizabeth is living and working in 1911 is in Rathdrum district which is to the south of Rathdown.
Name: Elizabeth Harding
Registration district: Rathdown
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1912
Volume : 2 / Page: 816
There are just a few other marriages listed for that name after 1911, the only others on the east coast are Dublin South in 1928, Dundalk in 1918. Others seem too far out of the area, or too late..
Shane
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Hi Shane
Hope this works this time
Been trying to post a reply for last few mins
Thank you so much for your help and information.
Will check out the links
The Bessie mentioned is the same Elizabeth, and she must have moved to Ballycurry to work.
Maggie
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I think this could be Elizabeth's birth on the BMD Index...
Name: Elizabeth Harding
Registration district: Rathdown
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1891
Volume: 2 / Page: 787
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
which of Elizabeth's siblings is your connection ?
Shane
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working back on Elizabeth's Harding aunts & uncles - there are some possible children for John & Ann listed in extracted births on FamilySearch - starting off in Co. Wexford in the 1860s and later in Co. Dublin.. two are listed as Harden, but possibly a mishearing, or mistranscription
see : Harding / Hanlon births (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Aharding~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Ajohn~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Aann~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Ahanlon~&collection_id=1584963)
and there's a possible marriage for John and Ann in Gorey district, Co. Wexford - which could fit with John's place of birth :
Groom: John Harding (single)
Bride: Anne Hanlon (single)
Marriage date: 20 May 1867
Marriage place: Gorey, Co. Wexford
Groom's father: Wm. Harding
Bride's father: John Hanlon
see : link (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG87-LQZ)
Shane
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the rest of the Harding family have moved by 1911 to the townland of Newtown Little, which is adjacent to Ballyedmonduff townland where they were in 1901. These townlands are just west of Stepaside and Kilgobbin and on the edge of the Dublin mountains.
see : Harding household - 1911 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Glencullen/Newtown_Little/95961/)
Shane
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Hi Shane
Just wanted to publicly say a very big thank you.
I have been searching for this man and his wife for two years!!!
We knew he was born in Wexford or Wicklow (depending on the boundary) but got misdirected by the Hanlon on some of the certs.
It never occurred to anyone that Anne Hanlon was possibly from Gorey
I cvant wait to go into the parish office tomorrow :) :)
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Anne gives her place of birth as Co Dublin on both census returns, but John is a little inconsistent - he has Co. Dublin in 1901, and "Born in Wexford" 1911.. and "Co. Wexford" as place of birth for son William
For some reason the 1901 form is filled by the enumerator and John says he can read but not write, and yet the he has filled in the 1911 form, in neat writing, and can read and write - maybe the enumerator just assumes Co. Dublin for all the family when he filled in the 1901 form ?
That 1867 marriage could have been in the district of Gorey, so you might have to check neighbouring parishes.
Shane
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Another possible Harding relation..............
elizabeth harding glencullen 1901 Irish Census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Glencullen/Glenamuck_South/1316612/)
Tara
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I'm not sure if this query is you ?
harding of glencullen query (http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.harding/1942/mb.ashx)
Tara
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Hi
We know about this elizabeth, because her gravestone is in Kilternan CI cemetary, along with John and Anne, and one of their sons and a daughter, but we cant connect this elizabeth - unless she was a sister of John.
Thanks for the link, anyway Tara
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Hi Shane
The confusion generated by the census is partly responsible for the lack of info regarding this family.
However, I did find birth certs for most of the children, and they do seem to have been born in Dublin, specifically Kilternan.
Your info has thrown light on one thngt however - we knew from the census that there was another child, but could never find any refeerence.
This must be the Sarah listed in the link you gave earlier.
There was also a second Margaret born, which confused even further, until I learned that quite ofen a later sibling was given the same name as a deceased one (morbid!)
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Hi
We know about this elizabeth, because her gravestone is in Kilternan CI cemetary, along with John and Anne, and one of their sons and a daughter, but we cant connect this elizabeth - unless she was a sister of John.
Thanks for the link, anyway Tara
if she's single ... then I believe that Elizabeth is the daughter of John and Ann mentioned in extracted records, born 16 Jun 1873
S.
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Hi Shane,
yes I think the same but that her age was incorrectly filled out on the census (quite common Maggie especially when someone was working for someone else and wasn't filling them form in themselves) !
Tara
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Sorry
I should have explained.
The Elizabeth mentioned as working for the Suttons on Glenamuck Road is buried in Kilternan church graveyard, but we cant connect her to John and Anne, because her date of birth is wrong.
Buried with John and Anne are their daughter Elizabeth, born in 1873, and their son William, both of whom remained unmarried, although we have reason to believe that this Elizabeth was my husbands great-grandmother.
She gave birth to two daughters - Martha (my husbands grandmother) and the Elizabeth who worked in Ballycurry.
I think the Elizabeth Harding who was listed as working for Suttons might have been an aunt.
I probably wont know untill I find Williams documents, and find out how many siblings John had.
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Hi
Im trying to follow up on the information I received the other day, but am having trouble tracking down William Harding
Every time I put his name into the Family search, the only dates batch Im getting is the 1867 marriage of John and Ann.
How do I narrow it down?
Ive tried every possible combination of dates.
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Hi
Im trying to follow up on the information I received the other day, but am having trouble tracking down William Harding
Every time I put his name into the Family search, the only dates batch Im getting is the 1867 marriage of John and Ann.
How do I narrow it down?
Ive tried every possible combination of dates.
are you searching for the birth for the William born c1873 ?
Shane
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Hi Shane
Ive been trying to calculate
John was married in 1867, and he was born in 1841 (census) so if he was approx 26 when he got married Im assuming William got married around 1815.
Take 21 from 1815 and it leaves 1794 as his birth (give or take).
I was never great at maths, but boy have I improved since starting this ;D ;D
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to search for anything for that William you are going to have to try for early parish records - you would need a location first, e.g. the name of the parish
I would try for John's baptism first..and then work back from that if you can find details
S.
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Lord I hope this goes on this time
Been trying to post answer for last five mins
Will try church in Camolin, and then Gorey, Shane, and see if anything crops up.
Thanks
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:) :) :)Just found another link in the chain.
Totally by accident, I clicked on a Thomas Harding, and discovered that he was married in Liskenfere Church, which is just down the road from Camolin, where John and Annes daughter Sarah was born (and probably buried)
Oh, I finally feel Im getting somewhere.
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EUREKA!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
I found my husbands long-lost cousins!!
Got a message on Genes Re-United from cousins daughter, and we have spent the past
few days catching up.
Amazing the amount of family history that we didnt know!!
Also, looking at the family resemblances is spooky.
Thanks for all the help Shane and Tara
Forgot to say am stilllooking for William, but am finally on the right track!
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Hi 'maggiegorey'
Oh, that's fab news.
Well done you on persevering !
Tara
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;DYep we're chuffed and already planning areunion early next year!!
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Hi
Elizabeth Harding, age six and a half years, of Ballyedmonduff enrolled in St Mary's School in nearby Sandyford in 1898. Her Father's occupation is shown as Labourer but his name is not listed - which is normal.
I bet this is the Bessie age 12 shown on the 1901 census, a grandaughter of John (Labourer working in Agriculture) and Anne.
Cheers
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Thank you so much for the info - it definitely matches with any info I have.
We had a family reunion a couple of weeks ago and it was great. Met my husbands cousins whohadnt been in touch for 50 years.
It was uncanny the likeness between him and one of the girls.
Am continuing the research, but its hard going.
Maggie