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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: nikkita5680 on Sunday 02 September 12 23:24 BST (UK)

Title: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Sunday 02 September 12 23:24 BST (UK)
surname help needed can anyone tell me what catherines surname is please
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: PrueM on Sunday 02 September 12 23:28 BST (UK)
It's very small  :-\

Possibly Twomey?
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Sunday 02 September 12 23:42 BST (UK)
thanks i once thought that then someone said tracey so im still confused ???
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: ennael on Sunday 02 September 12 23:48 BST (UK)
Looks like O'TOOLE and TRACEY to me.

The ''T'' looks similar.

Leanne
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 00:07 BST (UK)
thanks leanne ive tried looking it up in church records but nothing found so far :(
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: PrueM on Monday 03 September 12 02:27 BST (UK)
Is it a record from Ireland?  I can see how it might be Tracey...it's really too small and indistinct to be certain.


Added:  FamilySearch has the marriage listed in Ireland Civil Registration Indexes:

William O'TOOLE
Catherine TRACEY
Apr-Jun 1902, Dublin South Reg. District
Volume 2, Page 683
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: Alexander. on Monday 03 September 12 02:49 BST (UK)
Before reading the replies my thought was Tracey.

Alexander
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: ennael on Monday 03 September 12 03:29 BST (UK)
On the side it looks like Patrick and St Michaels if that helps.

Leanne
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 03 September 12 03:55 BST (UK)
Maybe Truly or Truely or Trewly
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 08:59 BST (UK)
thanks everyone for help its crazy this is only cert i have to do with this side of family and its been hardest to find whereas nothing on other side to go on yet found them on church records  :) the parish said st nicholas but nothing on church records for 1902 and no sign of their childrens birth records maybe werent registered or something im not sure this is all new to me  ;)
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: PrueM on Monday 03 September 12 09:38 BST (UK)
I posted what looks like the civil registration index entry above...what other information were you wanting that isn't on  the certificate you have?
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 11:01 BST (UK)
if this is the St Nicholas of Myra (RC) on Francis Street then the parish records on the IrishGenealogy website only include baptisms and marriages for this parish up to 1881, so a civil record would be required.

p.s. Dublin South would be the correct district for St. Nicholas


S.
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 11:33 BST (UK)
thanks shanew147 does the church itself have the records after 1881 do u know but just not online?
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 11:38 BST (UK)
They do, but the records on IrishGenealogy are based on the RC films held by the National Library - most of which only cover up to the 1880s. The idea when they were filming them was that all districts would have been keeping good records by that time, so civil records could be used.

It might be an idea to take a step back to be sure of your clues... do you have a birth for this possible couple ?




Shane
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 03 September 12 11:39 BST (UK)
What did you think of the marriage that Prue found for you?

It looks like your couple to me.
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 11:40 BST (UK)
+1 one what Mike said...

I'd take a chance on that possible match mentioned by PrueM... a research cert is only €4, and the other details could help prove a link - e.g. the witnesses or residences for the bride & groom, father's names etc..


S.
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 11:50 BST (UK)
thanks guys im going to go into gro and try get copy of that record prueM found from the cert i have it looks like fifty for both there ages but on 1911 census says catherine was 30 and william 45 and basically i just wanted to find who she was married to before william as cert says she was a widow and obviosly first huband was tracey and want to know what happened to him and hopefully get a better picture.. :D sorry for bombarding yiz but im puzzled  ???
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 11:51 BST (UK)
just had a closer look at the image - I think it is a civil rather than parish record - for some reason the priest filled in the names of the bride and groom at 90 degrees to the way you are supposed to....

both the ages have 'full' - i.e. 21 or over..


S.
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 12:01 BST (UK)
@nikkita5680 - can you make out the residences for William and Catherine on the marriage cert you have ?

might help locate them on the 1901 census...

also names, and occupations, of their fathers from the cert could help - assuming it's a civil cert...

A new research cert from the GRO will probably look the same, but might possibly be a little clearer.


Shane
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 12:13 BST (UK)
.....ages ...on 1911 census says catherine was 30 and william 45 and basically i just wanted to find who she was married to before william as cert says she was a widow and obviosly first huband was tracey and want to know what happened to him and hopefully get a better picture..

Is this your William & Catherine in 1911 ?

   O'Toole household - Vance's buildings (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/Vance_s_Buildings/75091/)

Married 9 years (so c1902), William a Hotel Goods Porter born Dublin City, Catherine born Co. Dublin, and three children - all born Dublin City.


Shane
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 12:18 BST (UK)
might be  a better pic thanks for reply.they were living in vances buildings william was a porter father was michael he was valet and catherine tracey was a widow same address father john quinn. it says they married in 1902 but this certs dated 1935 for pursuance of widows pension soo does that mean william died in 1935 for definite. thanks for your help
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 12:20 BST (UK)
yep thats them shanew ;)
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 12:27 BST (UK)
all i really need to find out is william and catheriines d.o.bs and both there mothers names and name of cats first husband ? tracey if anyone can point me in right direction please ;)
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 12:39 BST (UK)
might be  a better pic thanks for reply.they were living in vances buildings william was a porter father was michael he was valet and catherine tracey was a widow same address father john quinn. it says they married in 1902 but this certs dated 1935 for pursuance of widows pension soo does that mean william died in 1935 for definite. thanks for your help

so looks like we need a ? Tracey / Catherine Quinn marriage sometime before 1902, and probably after 1899 - i.e. Catherine age 18..

Does the marriage cert mention John Quinn's occuaption ?

I dont see any Traceys or [O']Tooles in Vances buildings in 1901...


Shane
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 12:51 BST (UK)
it says john quinn labourer also i just looked up family search found a catherine quinn born 25th march 1880 portobello place father john mother kate so may be her?? dont know where they both came from or their parents my search just goes back to will and cat 3 vances bldings 1901 thanks for your help shane :)
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 03 September 12 13:05 BST (UK)
Catherine states she was born Co. Dublin - so probably further outside the city than Portobello...

The IrishGenealogy website concentrates on City records.

William gives his place of birth as Dublin city, so more likely that he is somewhere in the IrishGenealogy records... problem is finding the correct one.. 

Note the IrishGenealogy website does not include one major RC City parish - namely St. Paul's (Arran Quay)


Shane
Title: Re: surname help
Post by: nikkita5680 on Monday 03 September 12 13:13 BST (UK)
thanks for that i shall keep up the search and take a trip to gro see what turns up ;)