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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: emmsthheight on Sunday 02 September 12 22:04 BST (UK)
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Hi :)
My ggg grandparents David and Sarah Shaw had both lived at Lower Mill Cottages and Stubley Mill which were near Wuerndle Rochdale. They were married at St Chads but I've never founf a burial for them.
I have both the death certificates but have never found a burial for either of them. this would be shortly before the cemetery opened. The next three generations of g parents are all buried in Rochdale cemetery.
Could anyone suggest anywhere to look and where the records would be?
Thank you for readin.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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What years are we looking at for their deaths,please
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Hi
Thanks for the almost instant reply!
David died 1850 and sarah was before that - 1842 I think. (I'm away from home long term because of family but I've decided to have a go at the family history again).
thank you for the reply.
Best wishes
Emms
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There is more than one in that time period but I will have a look around
Sarah Wife of Thomas Shaw
St Chad Rochdale
abode Smith
aged 53 years
21st April 1844
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Bless her was she the lady aged 90
Wardleworth Rochdale 1842
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Radcliff
Thank you so much for this. Are these NBI entries? I know my Sarah was married to David but any Shaws in that little area would be of interest. I know there are hoards even in Rochdale but Wardle, Wuerndle, wardleworth is interesting.
I wonder who the lady aged 90 is?
Actually now you've given me those, my Sarah must be the 1849 Ap - June one. There are only three in the 1840's. I wonder about the older Sarah though being in wardleworth I don't have David's parents yet. He was born about 1792 - 1798. Sarah just after him. Probably in Ripponden or Blackstone edge area. Sarah was Sarah Whiteley. This branch of the Shaws are closely linked to Whiteley and Booth.
thank you again.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Morning Emms
I have seen the marriage to Sarah Whitely St Chads 1820
but it doesnt give any clues
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Thank you Radcliff for all your efforts.
Don't worry. I just thought someone might know somewhere I hadn't thought of or known about.
Maybe they took them back up Blackstone Edge into Yorkshire. There are links in the litlle towns and villages either side of the Lancashire Yorkshire border, especially hanging Lee / beestonhurst, just off the main road where there has been a farm a brewery and a school among other things.
Thank You again!
best wishes
Emms :)
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Quite a few Shaws were/are found in the Walsden and Todmorden area, just a bit beyond Blackshaw Head, into yorkshire. I think there are one or two websites that give burial details for several of the local churches and chapels, so it may be worth looking there. "Malcolm Bull's Calderdale Companion" or some similar name springs to mind. Give it a try. I think there might also be a historic records website for the area, with burials on it.
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Thank you!
They actually died in Rochdale so I thought I'd try there first but certainly I need to look in Yorkshire as well. I think that will be even harder as there are so many small chapels.
I'll look on Malcolm Bull's site again. I've had some great things off there but I've never looked for burials.
Like I said there were family in the Soyland district atHanging Lee. sarah and David's eldest child was born at windy Bank according to the census and there were links to Blue Pits near there, A Joshua and William and Sarah Ann Shaw.
One of the older relatives was of Elland when he got married.
Problem is, there are so many Shaws, Whiteleys and Booths intermarrying.
I think I'll have to treat them like my Irish and just collect them allQ!
Thank you again. :)
Best wishes
Emms
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Know what you mean about Irish ancestors, they just seem to vanish into the Irish sea....
We've got a "Whiteley" link somewhere, too, and they're Halifax area mostly, aren't they? No Booths or Shaws, though.
Good hunting, anyway. I'll keep an eye open for anything relevant.
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Hi
I used to live in Wardle and was thinking have you tried burials for St John the Baptist, Halifax Road, Smallbridge? Its very close to Wardle/Wuerdle and Stubley Mill and was founded in 1830's so early enough for them to be buried there.
Not sure where the records would be held, possibly Rochdale Local Studies and Archive at Touchstones, The Esplanade, Rochdale.
Regards
Karen
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OOh Thank You!
That's one I don't know. I know there were a lot of small chapels at the time but I don't know names or absolute positions.
I'll look in that.
Thank you very much!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Karen
I've just been reading your kind reply again.
i notice you mention Stubley Mill, so you've evidently heard of it.
What do you know about it or have you any idea where there would be photo's or if it still exists?
Have you heard of Lower Mill?
They and later family lived at Stubbley Mill and Lower Mill cottages. Last time I asked, no one seemed to have heard of them.
I tried to follow street view based on the map, but it always seemed to stop short.
Thank you again.
Best wishes
Emms
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hi
Had a look around and found a photo of Smallbridge and one of the church here. It's really imposing and looks as if the parish is thriving,
from the map I imagined this must be a tiny chapel that had disappeared.
Familysearch reckons there are films of the records on LRO so maybe Touchstones has it too.
my dad always mentioned Littleborough and I never found them there but this looks to be close by.
http://manchesterhistory.net/rochdale/smallbridge.html
Thank you again.
Emms
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Hi Emms
I have only heard of the name Stubley Mill, as there is a road called Stubley Mill Road at Dearnley, near Littleborough but I am pretty sure there is no mill building there now, Stubley Hall runs in front of the lane.
As for Lower Mill it rings a bell but I am not sure at the moment, I used to be a photographer for the local newspaper so I know the Rochdale area very well, if it comes back to me I will let you know.
I am sure Touchstones will be able to help, they had all sorts of interesting information
Regards
Karen
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Hi again Emms,
I had a look at the 1841 census for David and Sarah and there is a place called Whitegate next to Lower Mill cottages.
Whitegate still exists, it is a road, I am flying home to my parents who still live in Wardle this weekend and will take a drive along Whitegate to see what I can find for you.
Regards
Karen
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Hi Karen
Thank you for all your input, especially as you're not where I thought on the ground in Rochdale!
I'll contact Touchstones. they were really kind when I started this. but I know they'll be much busier now. I'd love to know what you find on your drive but don't worry if you don't get chance. You'll have little enough time.
Photographer for the paper must have been fascinating. I bet you've got a mine of views most people wouldn't even think of!
Thank you again! Enjoy your weekend!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Hi Em,
I had a quick drive around and there are some old cottages at the beginning of White Gate and then goes on to 1950's houses but I don't think they are the Lower Mill cottages. The good thing is that the road names haven't changed and Paddock End is still there too, which is another small close that was next to your ancesters address in the census.
Apparently there is an 1848 map of Dearnley/Weurdle area in existence that shows Lower Mill and Stubley Mill so perhaps Touchstones may have a copy of that?
Sorry I couldn't be more help but my visit to the UK was very brief and back at my house in the Netherlands now.
Happy hunting.
Karen
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Hi Karen
Thank you so much for your time in such a crazy schedule. It must have been some flying trip. Your feet mustn't have touched the ground!
Thank you for somehow fitting in the Lower Mill area. Your post is fascinating reading! Must look for those cottages on Googleearth with the addresses you've given me. I must investigate that map too.
Back in the past before genealogy took off, when they'sd just started their website, touchstones were really kind including sending a section of a map but it was further into the hills.
Hope the weather's better in Holland than here!
Thank you again. :)
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi
Yes, Threlfall Yorkie.
My Whiteleys are mostly in the Pennines between Halifax and Rochdale but we have at least one marriage in Halifax and I think Whiteleys may be the link..
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They were in the Ripponden area and also used King Cross Church Halifax I think King Cross may be out of Halifax
My David Shaw married Sarah Whiteley but there are Whiteleys in other branches and Shaws, Whiteleys, Booths intermarried and all these names appeared as second surnames in all the branches.
About as hard as the Irish!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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king cross church would refer, I suspect, to king cross methodist church and my uncle has the burial records for this church going back to 1820 and yes it is just outside of halifax going towards sowerby bridge and ripponden.
T.
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Hi Undertaker - T
Thank you so much for both your replies. I'm sorry I didn't get back more quickly. There's a lot going on here.
This is brilliant to read. I was beginning to think that my little group of Shaws etc had disappeared into a black hole along with the places they frequented in among all the other Shaws etc in the area!
What you've said about King Cross Ripponden would fit in well with the rest of the family so far.
i wonder if they could well appear in that burial register.
thank you again for all your input.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hello,
Regarding St John the Baptist's church - It's been closed for some time and I believe that it's for sale for a very reasonable price.
I suggest you contact the local history group who have a lot of information on this church and are always happy to help. It's The Wardle and Smallbridge Local History Group (search for WASHG).
Stubley Mill vanished in the 1950s. It was originally a Fulling Mill but in later years was a glue mill. I have records from the 18th century but it appears to be much older than that. Stubley Mill Lane runs past Stubley Hall to the River Roch where the mill was. Stubley Road ran from Littleborough to the same place.
I had family at Stubley Mill from around the 1880s and I'm fairly certain that their local church would be either Littleborough parish or St Andrew's at Dearnley, not St John's at Smallbridge.
Hope this helps
BM
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Hello Bobmunc
Welcome to Rootschat!
What a lovely surprise to receive a reply after all this time
Yes, this little era in the family's life is proving really elusive to find more information on!! It's brilliant to hear from someone who remembers and is familiar with the places as well as having links.
St Andrews sounds worth doing some searches for and I'll also look into the history society which I wasn't aware of.
It's interesting Dad always mentioned Littleborough. I also have census entries at Wuerndle which seems to be close by. The family was linked to Booths, Whiteleys, Lees and Wolstenholmes among others. They intermarried loads.
Thank you again and do let me know if I can help with your line. I've got quite a bit together on these lines or if you have any links here in Cumbria.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Hello,
I just looked up St Andrew's Church at Dearnley and it was opened in 1894; maybe this is out of your time period? The land for the burial ground was donated in 1879 and consecrated in 1881.
Littleborough parish church burial ground appears to have been full by the early 20th century as the nearby St Barnabas Church at Shore was built around that time. I assume that non-conformists would have been buried at Rochdale cemetery (appropriately located on Bury Road) rather than at one of the Anglican churches, but could well be wrong on that.
Wuerdle is a vague sort of place! It must have covered a much larger area at one time but apart from a small group of houses it's almost vanished. It's just over a mile on the road from Littleborough to Rochdale and is actually on the old pre-turnpike road which ran parallel with the present one. A Google search for Wuerdle Rochdale will find it.
I noticed that you list English merchants in Brazil; we have the Schwind and Lyon families who had connections with Bahia in the 19th century.
regards
BM
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Hi
I'm sorry. Somehow I missed your last post.
Thank you for the local knowledge. Yes, my burials are a bit earlier. I think just before the cemetery opened but I may be wrong - 1840 to 1850.
That's why I'm thinking chapels and churches.
Best wishes
Emms :)