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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Buteshire => Topic started by: DennyDescendant on Monday 27 August 12 13:49 BST (UK)
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My g-grandparents were a Peter Miller and Margaret Campbell McLean, Margaret had come from Rothesay to Glasgow where she wed.
As given on the 1911 Marriage entry Margaret C. McLean's parents were alive and called James McLean (b. abt. 1848) and Marion Campbell (b.abt. 1852). So from this I found their Marriage entry in Rothesay in 1873, also giving their respective parents names. So far so good.
However I can not find James or Marion McLean in any census returns, neither can I find their births or deaths?
I think I have quite a lot on James McLeans brothers and sisters and his parents, but for Marion Campbell I just have her parents names. They were alive as of Nov 1876.
Please see attached diagram. If anyone can add anything or make some suggestions that would be great.
Cheers,
Derek.
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Hi Derek
Struggling with 1881 but this looks like the family in 1891:
James McLean 42, seaman b. Highlands, Mull
Marion McLean 32 b. Highlands, South - West
Annie McLean 14 b. Rothesay, Bute
Maggie McLean 12 b. Rothesay, Bute
Katty McLean 8 b. Rothesay, Bute
Marion McLean 6 b. Glasgow
James McLean 4 b. Glasgow
Address: 52 St James St, Kinning Park, Glasgow Govan
Monica :)
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Many thanks Monica :)
Urgh! it had to be Glasgow, choc full of McLeans it is.
This should be a great help finding their death certs however, I'll keep you posted on what I find.
I believe the common nickname/derivative of Marion in the days of old was Minnie. There's a few in my family and sometimes they go in official docs under that.
Cheers,
Derek.
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Possible for 1901, showing as boarders:
William Graham 27
Annie Graham 25
Elizabeth Graham 4
Marion Graham 2
James Mclean 52, A B Seaman Cwil (?spl) b. Mull, Argyllshire
Marion Mclean 42 b. South Uist, invernessshire
Maggie Mclean 23
Catherine Mclean 18
Marion Mclean 16
Jemima Mclean 14
Neil Mclean 6
Address: 3, Mclellan St, Plantation Landward, Govan
All the McLean children showing as born in Glasgow. I am guessing that Annie Graham may be first born daughter Annie McLean that we had earlier?
Monica
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A few variants to consider for Marion ::) www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Marion.html
Monica
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Derek, what was the occupation showing for Marion's father Neil?
The closest I can see in 1851 with those parents may have the age down wrong (although freecen show the same as the transcription :-\) Everyone showing as born in South Uist:
Neil Campbell 40, shepherd
Maragrit Campbell 30
Alexander Campbell 10
Cathrine Campbell 8
Chursty Campbell 6
Duncan Campbell 3
Marion Campbell 15
Cathrine Campbell 13
Monica
Address: Tarbord, South Uist, Inverness-shire
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From 1861. Guessing here, could Marion aged 13 who showed in 1851 have died and they re-used the name? As transcribed:
Fiel Campbell 56, fisherman
Margret Campbell 40
Cathrine Campbell 20
Alexander Campbell 18
Duncan Campbell 9
Marion Campbell 7
Thadlac Lied (?spl) 60, boarder
Address: Cochskipport, Howmore, South Uist
And 1871:
Niel Campbell 65, cottar
Mary Campbell 57...a second marriage or is Marg. being read as Mary?
Alexander Campbell 30
Catharine Campbell 28
Christina Campbell 26
Marion Campbell 18, General Servant Domestic
Norman Mackay 4 grandchild
Mary Mackay 2 grandchild
Robert Munro 60, lodger
Address: Baynafaoliron, Howmore, South Uist
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Excellent stuff Monica.
In Marions marriage her father Neil is described as a Farmer residing at 18 Castle Street, Rothesay.
Hmm I supposed there's a big difference between being described as a shepherd and a farmer in the highlands but not in Glasgow?
ta'
Derek.
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One more for now...
If we do have the right family for Marion Campbell, I wondered whether this is where daughters Annie and Maggie were for 1881, with maternal grandparents showing as Campbell?:
Niel Campbell 80
Margaret Campbell 65...so it was Margaret not Mary ;)
Catharine Campbell 40
Duncan Campbell 29
Alexander Campbell 38
Margaret Campbell 32, Daughter-in-law
Ann Campbell 4 grandchild
Maggie Campbell 2 grandchild
James Campbell 1 grandchild
Norman MacKay 14 grandchild
Address: Banafaslin, Howmore, South Uist
Monica
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Sorry, Derek, just seen your last post...
The address that you quote of 18 Castle Street, Rothesay, is this the address of the bride at the time of the marriage? Doesn't necessarily indicate it was her family address I would say.
Re farmer, it had a very wide encompassing meaning!
Monica
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Yes, but perhaps not as bad as the old "Ag. Lab." catch all ::)
Thanks very much for all your detective work Monica, you've given me plenty to look into and iron out.
Cheers again,
Derek.
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I've found them in the 1911 census and there is further detail regarding Marions birthplace, Loch Skipport, South Uist.
Derek.
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Great photos of Loch Skipport on www.flickr.com/search/?q=Loch%20Skipport
My favourite is this one www.flickr.com/photos/pwj/6418025021/ :)
Monica
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Hi Derek,
Found this post today but will post my finding anyway :P
Neil Campbell b c 1811 married Margaret (m/s Campbell) 1834 South Uist
At the time of marriage Neil was at Loch Skipport, Iochdar, S/Uist & Margaret at Loch Sheilavig, (Probably Iochdar, S/Uist)?
Anne Marie
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From 1861. Guessing here, could Marion aged 13 who showed in 1851 have died and they re-used the name? As transcribed:
Fiel Campbell 56, fisherman
Margret Campbell 40
Cathrine Campbell 20
Alexander Campbell 18
Duncan Campbell 9
Marion Campbell 7
Thadlac Lied (?spl) 60, boarder
Address: Cochskipport, Howmore, South Uist
Thadlac Lied (?spl) 60, boarder John MacLeod 60 Fisherman
Address: Cochskipport Lochskipport
Anne Marie
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Hi Anne Marie,
Thank you for the marriage date. This family line has always been the most difficult to nail down.
Does the info come from a gravestne or OPR?
Thanks,
Derek.
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Hi Derek, Hopefully you receive this message.
I am also a descendent of Margaret Campbell McLean b. 9th February 1879. Rothesay (My Great Grandmother). I am trying to put the pieces together and have hit a bit of a bump in the road regarding my maternal Grandmother Margaret Ann McLean who was born in 1905 to Margaret Campbell McLean prior to her marriage to Peter Miller, 22nd September 1911 and of any subsequent children. Hoping you can shed a bit more light as I cannot find a birth certificate for Margaret Ann.
Thank you. Irene (South Australia)
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From 1861. Guessing here, could Marion aged 13 who showed in 1851 have died and they re-used the name? As transcribed:
Fiel Campbell 56, fisherman
Margret Campbell 40
Cathrine Campbell 20
Alexander Campbell 18
Duncan Campbell 9
Marion Campbell 7
Thadlac Lied (?spl) 60, boarder
Address: Cochskipport, Howmore, South Uist
That's a pretty dud transcription.
FindMyPast has
Niel Campbell
John MacLeod, Boarder
and the address as Lochskipport, which makes sense.
And 1871:
Mary Campbell 57...a second marriage or is Marg. being read as Mary?
FindMyPast has Mary, as does the index at SP.
Address: Baynafaoliron, Howmore, South Uist
I think that will be an anglicisation (or a transcription of an anglicisation) of Bàgh nam Faoileann (Bay of the Gulls). There isn't a Bàgh nam Faoileann named on the map at Loch Skiport, but there is a Loch nam Faoileann just a couple of hundred yards from the sea, and the first edition Ordnance Survey map shows a track to, and couple of buildings close to, the shore there, at Caolas Mòr. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.32800&lon=-7.25395&layers=5&b=1
Loch nam Faoileann https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NF8337
Caolas Mòr https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NF8338
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Hi Derek, Hopefully you receive this message.
I am also a descendent of Margaret Campbell McLean b. 9th February 1879. Rothesay (My Great Grandmother). I am trying to put the pieces together and have hit a bit of a bump in the road regarding my maternal Grandmother Margaret Ann McLean who was born in 1905 to Margaret Campbell McLean prior to her marriage to Peter Miller, 22nd September 1911 and of any subsequent children. Hoping you can shed a bit more light as I cannot find a birth certificate for Margaret Ann.
Thank you. Irene (South Australia)
Hi Irene,
I've been away from the genealogy for a while.
Looking at my notes i have nothing on any births before Margaret moved to Glasgow and married my great grandfather Peter Miller.
As well as my grandmother Mary 1918 there were children James 1912 and Cecilia 1915.
However my great grandfather Peter had a heap of other children from his first wife too brought to the party.
I have your grandmother with her parents and siblings in the 1911 census, months before her marriage to Peter. No sign of any children of hers on it though.
Cheers,
Derek
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Hi Derek,
Thank you for your reply and apologies for late response, we had a long weekend here and were away.
I am going to commence searching the Parish records in Rothesay, Bute area and hopefully come up with something for my Grandmother Margaret Ann McLean, as on her wedding certificate 27th April 1928 she and her mother Margaret McLean have the same surname, which on further research mentions; if a child was born what was then termed 'illegitimate',he/ she would be indexed under both the mother’s maiden name and the father’s name (if known). Which is starting to make sense, as my mother Agnes Miller Mackay b 24th May 1939 and passed in 2012 mentioned, if my memory serves me correctly, that her mother was brought up by two elderly aunts, so I will commence on the census hunt also.
Thank you again Derek I appreciate all the hard work you have done.
Irene
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Hi Irene
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Can I ask you a question? How did you connect your grandmother Margaret Ann born c 1905 to Margaret Campbell McLean and her family? Was there something in Margaret Ann's marriage or death registrations connecting her mother Margaret to her family or the Margaret who married Peter Miller?
Monica
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Thank you for the marriage date. This family line has always been the most difficult to nail down.
Does the info come from a gravestne or OPR?
Thanks,
Derek.
Hi Derek,
Apologies, I must have missed this post somehow at the time but the marriage info. was from a book of Indexes to Marriages (Recorded & Unrecorded) by Bill Lawson.
The marriage details are in the 'Unrecorded' Index i.e. not on scotlandspeople & no clue as to whether catholic or protestant (Church of Scotland)
Iochdar (many variants) is an area which covered quite a few districts although not a Reg. Dist.
If you use the 1st link from Forfarian...
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.32800&lon=-7.25395&layers=5&b=1
Neil Campbell b c 1811 married Margaret (m/s Campbell) 1834 South Uist
At the time of marriage Neil was at Loch Skipport, Iochdar, S/Uist & Margaret at Loch Sheilavig, (Probably Iochdar, S/Uist)?
Loch Sheilavig is just above Loch Skipport i.e. I'm assuming it would also have been in the Iochdar area.
On early indexes the RD was simply South Uist but for more up-to-date info. the RD is Howmore
Annie
Add...
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.32800&lon=-7.25395&layers=5&b=1
Looking at the above (up-to-date) map, press + 4 times then move up from the 'Burial Ground' in this view by a few squares which will show Iochdar itself but if you move to the right of the 'Burial Ground' Loch Sheilavig is 4 squares to the right of the large capital T (on it's side) & Loch Skipport just below.
Loch Skipport (once a main port) is one of my favourite places, the scenery is beautiful & the Ponies roam wild but people friendly :)