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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: lyla on Sunday 26 August 12 15:28 BST (UK)

Title: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: lyla on Sunday 26 August 12 15:28 BST (UK)
Hi

I already have my grandfathers birth certificate but I just noticed on FreeBMD there is another birth in the same quarter and wondered if he could have been a twin. The birth certificate has no time or other indication that he might have been a twin. What does it mean if the reference number is followed by an a? This is from Sept 1885 births

Horley  Harry    Woburn  3b 368   
Horley  Martha Elizabeth     Woburn  3b 368a

Looking under 368a there are two entries as follows

Ellis  Martha Elizabeth    Woburn  3b 368a   
Horley  Martha Elizabeth     Woburn  3b 368a   

I've looked at both images and Martha Elizabeth is listed under both Ellis and Horley. I'm thinking this is more likely to be an error of some sort as nobody in the family remembers Harry having a twin. Do you agree that it's likely to be a mistake? I don't really want to risk buying the certificate in case it is wrong.

Would be grateful for your opinions

Thanks
Lyla

Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 26 August 12 15:35 BST (UK)
The reason for the "a" reference is often (but not always) that the birth was added to the GRO records after the quarter's data had been assembled and indexed.

Stan
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 26 August 12 15:41 BST (UK)
Martha Elizabeth Horley, age 5,  appears in the 1891 Census RG12; Piece: 1263; Folio: 42; Page: 7

Stan
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: lyla on Sunday 26 August 12 15:46 BST (UK)
Interesting. So she really is a Horley and not an Ellis. Would you be able to tell me the rest of the family in 1891? Sounds like she must be a cousin to Harry.

Thanks
Lyla
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: mshrmh on Sunday 26 August 12 15:56 BST (UK)
As she is indexed under two different surnames it suggests that the registrar was or became aware that the parents did not have the same surname. It could be the case that the parents were not married (to each other) at the time & the registrar became aware of this.

Interesting. So she really is a Horley and not an Ellis. Would you be able to tell me the rest of the family in 1891? Sounds like she must be a cousin to Harry.

Thanks
Lyla

The surname used on the census was not legal proof - just that used at the time. I've seen children from the mother's previous marriage listed on the census under the stepfather's name, though they later marry under their own father's name.
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 26 August 12 16:07 BST (UK)
Martha Elizabeth Horley, age 5,  appears in the 1891 Census RG12; Piece: 1263; Folio: 42; Page: 7

Stan

This marriage relates to the couple on this census
September qtr 1879      
ELLIS    Emily            
HORLEY    William Edward A       
St. Geo. H. Sq.    1a   793

William was previously married in December qtr 1867 Woburn reg district 3b 902 -possible wives Ann Coles or Alice Ellis.  1871 census gives his wife as Alice.
Possible death
June qtr 1878 
Alice Horley age 27    Woburn reg dist    3b   242
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: lyla on Sunday 26 August 12 16:21 BST (UK)
So in 1891 Martha is the daughter of William and Emily Horley (nee Ellis) - is that right? That would explain the GRO mistake. I think William is the uncle of my Harry - was he a carpenter on the 1891 census aged about 45?

Thanks for all your help

Lyla
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 26 August 12 16:35 BST (UK)
This is Williams birth registration -
William Edward Alexander Horley
Date of Registration   Jul-Aug-Sep 1844
Registration district   Woburn
Vol 6 Page109

In 1891 he is age 45 occupation Grocer
Emily age 36
Edward J age 18
Frederick 16
Laura 7
Martha 5
William A 2
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 26 August 12 19:13 BST (UK)
I have a relative who was a twin and this is mentioned both on the census records and also on his Birth Certificate.
Carol
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 26 August 12 21:04 BST (UK)
For twins the time is always entered on the birth certificate mainly for inheritance purposes.

Stan
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: lyla on Monday 27 August 12 06:20 BST (UK)
Thanks for all your helpful replies. Clearly Harry was not a twin so you have saved me the cost of buying a wrong certificate.

Cheers
Lyla
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: Andrew Cooke on Sunday 26 October 14 07:47 GMT (UK)
not really about the original question but while I was doing a search I came across your thread & thought this may interest you As I have added it to Find A Grave.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GScid=2184551&GRid=137739267&
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: LizzieW on Sunday 26 October 14 11:52 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat.

Lyla hasn't been on here since 2013, so I've sent her a PM to advise her of your post.  Hope she gets it.

Lizzie

Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: barryd on Sunday 26 October 14 12:42 GMT (UK)
Recording the births of twins with birth times may not seem so important today but in past times especially for male twins inheritance and titles could be involved for Royalty and Landed Gentry.
Title: Re: Is this a possible twin or a mistake in GRO index?
Post by: lyla on Saturday 01 November 14 19:49 GMT (UK)
What lovely find - thanks for posting the link.

 I haven't looked at my files for a long time but unfortunately I don't think he turned out to be closely connected to my Harry Horley.

Thanks Lizzie for the PM