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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: sweetpea1 on Friday 24 August 12 09:49 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information on Margaret Mary Donagher who married Patrick Tracey. I have no DoB, or even county although I think there is a Kildare (Monastrevin) connection. They lived at one stage ( 1921 in Millbourne Ave in Dublin). Patrick Tracey may also be from Kildare.
Family folklore has it that her parents are buried in the Yew Tree cemetery near Monastrevin.
Any help would be of help.
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Have you found them in 1901 and 1911 census yet? Census will give indication of when and where born.
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Not definitive because I am not sure of the date of birth - there re two possibilities for my Grandmother but a lot more for my Grandfather since his name Patrick Tracey is more common -
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do you know dates and places of birth for their children ?
(be careful not to mention names or other details for anyone that may be alive)
Shane
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Hi there,
Still early days 'til you get a better idea of your timeline - you are aware of them living in Millbourne Avenue in 1921 - was this in their later years and with their children ??
There is a Margaret Donagher on the 1901 Irish Census in Derrylea which is near Monasterevin.
possible margaret donagher 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Quinsborough/Derrylea/1435901/)
Tara
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there's a P. Treacy listed at 16 Millbourne Ave., Drumcondra in Thom's 1927, and on the 1939 City Voter's Register there's a Patrick Tracey at 16 along with a Mary Quinn - no sign of Margaret or any other adults at the address.
Shane
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As far as I know Margaret Mary died in the 1920s - I have the 1921 date from my mother's birth cert. and I know she had an older sister - so in 1921 I think they may have been tenants in no. 16 - when Margaret Mary died her children went to live with relatives near Monastrevin. Another complication is that while my mother's birth cert refers to her mother as Margaret Mary it is in the nature of things that she may have been called Mary - it would not be unknown. If I can find out my Grandmother's parents names from the Yew Tree records then I my be able to narrow down the search. I have tried to e-mail the local history society.
I will be also searching the death certs for the 1920s to see if I can pin that aspect down.
Re Patrick Tracey he is listed on the Birth cert as a clerk while my mother's marriage cert lists him as "Army GCG" -I have asked military records if they have any trace of him but no luck there yet without more info.
One other ref I am trying to check is that family lore says he helped Michael Collins and I have come across refs (T R Dwyer and T P Coogan) to a Patrick Tracey who worked in the then Kingsbridge station as being a conduit for information being passed by Ned Broy to Collins as that Patrick Tracey was a cousin of Broy's who came from Kildare.
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Hi there,
OK I think I have Patrick
This is him on the 1911 Irish Census
patrick tracey 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Sullivan_St_/47946/) and his occupation is a clerk
What makes me positive is that I have found a prison record for this same Patrick and his involvement in the militia
patrick tracey militia (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM79-8X3)
BTW 'also known as' is actually next of kin ie his father !
Tara
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This is the family in 1901
tracey family 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Sullivan_Street/1336083/)
So you will see that it is Patrick's parents that came from Kildare !
Tara
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Hi there,
I'm nearly sure that I have found Margaret
There is another spelling of the surname DONOHER
I'm sure this is her in Dublin AND states she was from Kildare
margaret donoher 1911 Irish Census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Merrion_Street__North/85747/)
Tara
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This would be her in 1901 in Mayfield which is at Monasterevin Kildare
margaret donoher 1901 Irish Census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Lackagh/Mayfield/1435186/)
The great thing about this 1901 census is that Margaret's grandmother is also in the house which brings you back another generation.
Tara
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Gosh
they arrested you for anything 'back then'
Here is another prison record for Patrick Tracey
patrick tracey prison record (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMQG-VVC)
Tara
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Tara
this is great - as you say the different spelling may have led to confusion - I recall there was a Kate reference in the family so that could strengthen the link.
I am slightly puzzled by the second 1916 ref to Patrick Tracey because it gives his age as 28 whereas it should be 25 based on the census data.
What is possession if a militia? and does this imply he was active in the 1916 rising - I know my other grandfather was involved along with his brothers in the GPO but this is the first I have heard of my other grandfather.
Many thanks for you assistance so far - it has advanced my search no end.
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Hi there,
OK, I am still happy to say that the Patrick on the census is yours
BUT
I don't think the prison record Patrick is yours on further inspection.
Yours was a clerk but the one on the prison record was a labourer and illiterate.
Also, this baptism matches the Patrick on the prison record
prison record patrick tracey (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/91cf3a0012864)
and so is defo not yours.............
Sorry for any confusion :(
Anyway I am still looking for the marriage of Patrick and Margaret, also the marriage of Christopher and Anne.
Tara
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Tara
many thanks for all your assistance.
I suspect that the marriage and death certs etc will need me to go to the records in the Registry in the Irish Life Centre but I am much further advanced than I was this morning.
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Most records are online at familysearch - it's just a matter of finding the correct matches - the references that you will find on familysearch then are the ones that you will use at the Irish Life Mall or you can order them by post through the GRO in Roscommon
anyway I have tracked down the marriage of Christopher Tracey and Anne Brennan
christopher and anne marriage (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FY47-LWR)
still no sign of Patrick's though ???
Tara
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Tara
many thanks - I am new at this - the family search you refer to is that a website? To see the orignal record you referenced here can I get that in the General Registry or in the National Library ?
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Hi there,
I'm not sure if you have ever been to the records office at the Irish Life Mall but if you have then you will know the books that you have to sit for hours and sift through...
WELL
familysearch has these books references online for fre
familysearch site (https://familysearch.org/)
as I say you can either get the photocopy of the original marriage cert, by using these references, by post through the GRO, or at the Irish Life Mall in Dublin - cost 4 euro.
Tara
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Hi,
Did you find your Patrick Tracey?
The following is the marriage record:
Patrick Tracey, full [age], bachelor, clerk, lives 20 Wall Street Dublin, (s. of Joseph Tracey, labourer) married Margaret Donogher, full [age], spinster, BLANK profession, lives Co. Inchicoolny Kildare [Inchacooly Lea Laois], (d. of Edward Donogher, farmer) RC Church Monasterevin 14 Jan 1914 Wit: John Broy & Bridget Donogher [Monasterevin Athy PLU]
Regards,
Dec
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The following is the marriage record:
Patrick Tracey, full [age], bachelor, clerk, lives 20 Wall Street Dublin, (s. of Joseph Tracey, labourer) married Margaret Donogher, full [age], spinster, BLANK profession, lives Co. Inchicoolny Kildare [Inchacooly Lea Laois], (d. of Edward Donogher, farmer) RC Church Monasterevin 14 Jan 1914 Wit: John Broy & Bridget Donogher [Monasterevin Athy PLU]
Links-
Marriage 1914
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1914/09840/5573355.pdf
Inchacooly townland on the Kildare-Laois border.
https://www.townlands.ie/laois/portnahinch/lea/kilmullen/inchacooly/
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As far as I know Margaret Mary died in the 1920s - I have the 1921 date from my mother's birth cert. and I know she had an older sister - so in 1921 I think they may have been tenants in no. 16 - when Margaret Mary died her children went to live with relatives near Monastrevin.
Margaret Tracey died on 16th February 1930 at 16 Millbourne Avenue, Dublin aged 39 yrs.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1930/04923/4336744.pdf
The informant was her widower Patrick Tracey (a soldier).
Son Joseph born in April 1915.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01379/1567346.pdf
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As far as I know Margaret Mary died in the 1920s - I have the 1921 date from my mother's birth cert. and I know she had an older sister - so in 1921 I think they may have been tenants in no. 16 - when Margaret Mary died her children went to live with relatives near Monastrevin.
Margaret Tracey died on 16th February 1930 at 16 Millbourne Avenue, Dublin aged 39 yrs.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1930/04923/4336744.pdf
The informant was her widower Patrick Tracey (a soldier).
Son Joseph born in April 1915.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01379/1567346.pdf
Maureen Angela Treacy born 22nd May 1916 at 16 Millbourne Avenue.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01345/1554871.pdf
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Maureen Angela Treacy born 22nd May 1916 at 16 Millbourne Avenue.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01345/1554871.pdf
Maureen Tracey married John Rogers on 26th June 1938 in Dublin. One of the witnesses was an Eileen Tracey (her sister?).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1938/08879/5211313.pdf
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Maureen Angela Treacy born 22nd May 1916 at 16 Millbourne Avenue.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01345/1554871.pdf
Maureen Tracey married John Rogers on 26th June 1938 in Dublin. One of the witnesses was an Eileen Tracey (her sister?).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1938/08879/5211313.pdf
Yes :)
Eileen Brigid Tracey born 23rd June 1921 at 16 Millbourne Avenue, Dublin. MMN Donagher
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1921/01177/1490281.pdf
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Eileen Brigid Tracey was born on 23 June 1921 to Margret and Patrick Tracey . At that time the family were living in 16 Millbourne Avenue, Drumcondra. Her brother Joe was born in 1915 and Maureen in 1916. Patrick was working as a clerk but where is unspecified.
Eileen’s parents were Patrick Tracey and Margaret Mary Donoher (this often misspelt in some transcribed documents as Donogher).
Patrick Tracey
Patrick was born Patrick Joseph on 13th October 1889 to Joseph and Jane Tracey (nee Corcoran) of Derrylea (a townland near Monasterevin). There seems to be no record of the family in the 1901 Census but in the 1911 Census, Joseph and Jane are registered in Derrylea where he is listed as a farmer. He was 62 and she was 61. He was born in Kildare and she in Queens County (Laois). The form notes that they have one child still living but was not registered at home so presumably he was working away from home since he would have been around 22. However, there appears to be no record in the 1911 Census of Patrick (could he have been working in England but returned before marrying in 1914?). Patrick died on 14 October 1956 aged 67 in the civilian canteen in the Curragh and was listed as a clerk – so perhaps he was working for the Army as a civilian clerk. He died of coronary thrombosis. Joe is listed as his son and in attendance at the time of death.
Joseph and Jane had been married on 21 January 1889. He was a labourer and she a servant and both were from Derrylea. His father is registered as Patrick (deceased) and her father as Patrick Corcoran(deceased). As per the 1911 Census Joseph was 62 and Jane was 61 which would mean that they were born about 1849/50 and at the time of marriage they were 39/40. There is no trace of their births being registered around that time unless church records may shed some light.
Margaret Donoher
Margaret Mary Donoher is recorded in the 1901 Census as Maggie – she was then 10 years of age and so was born in 1890/1. She was the daughter of Edward and Bridget Donoher who were aged 60 and 45 respectively – meaning he was born about 1840/1 and she about 1855/6. (Civil births records online do not yet go back that far).
Margaret was not recorded at the family home in 1911 – but there is a Margret Donoher recorded as a servant in 22 Merrion Square in the household of Dr Edward Lennon and she was then 22.
She married Patrick Tracey on 14 January 1914 in Monestrevin. As far as the records show they lived in 16 Millbourne Avenue and had the three children Maureen , Joe and Eileen. Margaret died on 16 February 1930 – aged 39. Interestingly her husband is described as a soldier but this may be because he was a clerk in the Army(?).
Eileen would have been 9 at this stage Maureen 14 and Joe 15.
At some stage Eileen went to the farm of a relative (Uncle) to help on the farm. Joe too (according to family lore) worked for a relative.
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Joseph and Jane had been married on 21 January 1889. He was a labourer and she a servant and both were from Derrylea. His father is registered as Patrick (deceased) and her father as Patrick Corcoran(deceased).
Link-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10726/5910696.pdf
Derrylea townland
https://www.townlands.ie/kildare/west-offaly/lackagh/quinsborough/derrylea/
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Patrick Tracey
There seems to be no record of the family in the 1901 Census..............
Surname written and transcribed as Treacy in 1901 census.
House 2 in Derrylea (Quinsborough, Kildare).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Quinsborough/Derrylea/1435902/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000901137/
KG
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Patrick died on 14 October 1956 aged 67 in the civilian canteen in the Curragh and was listed as a clerk – so perhaps he was working for the Army as a civilian clerk. He died of coronary thrombosis. Joe is listed as his son and in attendance at the time of death.
Here's the link-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1956/04406/4147781.pdf
Patrick died on the 14th and Joseph registered the death on the 22nd, but it only says that Joseph as 'son of deceased' was the registrant. He was not present at the death - his address given as Courtwood, Ballybrittas, Leix.
Edited to Add:
Margaret died on 16 February 1930 – aged 39. Interestingly her husband is described as a soldier but this may be because he was a clerk in the Army(?).
Link-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1930/04923/4336744.pdf
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yes you are correct re Joe not being present at the death.
A puzzle is that Jane is listed at age 48 in the 1901 census but is listed at 61 in the 1911 census
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A puzzle is that Jane is listed at age 48 in the 1901 census but is listed at 61 in the 1911 census
There are several reasons why ages in the 1901 and 1911 Ireland census returns can be inconsistent.
One is age inflation due to the passing of the 1908 Act to pay an old-age pension to people over the age of 70.
Another is that a great many people back then didn't have the same focus on or care about their birth date as ones today do, and therefore didn’t celebrate birthdays.
As a result, many didn't have an accurate knowledge of their age and many ages on 'formal' documents were simply a guess.
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Yes that could be the case.
In reference to Patrick Tracey I think the reference to him being a soldier is incorrect - in the marriage cert he is listed as clerk as he was on Maureen's marriage cert on his death cert the fact that he died in the civilian canteen in the Curragh would all point to him being being a civilian clerk - originally back in 1914 for the British army and later for the Irish Army.
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Haven't read the entire thread so may be repeating info you already have.
Irish Press Tuesday Oct 16 1956
Tracey, Brownstown Curragh Camp..
Patrick, formerly of Derrylea Monasterevan...
Passlands Cemetery (Monasterevan)
Nationalist and Leinster Times, Sat Oct 20 1956
Mr Patrick Tracey a native of......
and a former Quarter Master Sergeant in the Defence Forces died.....
was a former member of the Dublin Brigade, Old IRA....
Mrs Tracey nee Donagher of Inchicooley.....
26 years army service and since retiring 10 years ago he had been attached to the civilian branch at the Curragh Corps of Engineers.
Keeping in mind newspapers aren't always correct, they got my grandfather's military service completely incorrect.
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Sinann
Thank you for this - I have not access to the newspaper archive so this is really useful. This is the first mention of him being in the Old IRA - which is interesting because his daughter, Eileen, married the son of Leo Ring who had fought, with his brothers, in the GPO in 1916. Besides the online archive do you know where I could access the newspapers concerned.
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Hi,
These are the parents of Joseph:
Pat Tracy & Rose Melia
John Tracy b. 7 May 1843 of Mountrice [Lackagh] Sp. John Halogen & Catherine Courtaney?. Monasterevan Parish
Joseph Tracy b. 28 Apr 1850 of Maant? Sp. Martin Casly & Mary Murray. Monasterevan Parish
Thomas Tracy b. 6 Mar 1853 of Mullaighanoe [Mullaghroe Lackagh] Sp. Peter? Dunne & Ellen Carty. Monasterevan Parish
Peter Tracy b. 8 Jun 1856 of Wuanorus [Ummeras Lackagh] Sp. Mick Behan & Jane Farrell. Monasterevan Parish (Note: married Elizabeth Danoher? 12 Jan 1914)
John Tracy & Rose Melia
Margaret Tracy b. 24 Oct 1847 of Miantrice Sp. Andrew Conlon & Catherine Melia. Monasterevan Parish
Joseph's brother Thomas was a member of the DMP, which gives an interesting twist to the Ned Broy connection.
Thos Tracey (s. of Patrick Tracey & Rosanna Melia of Co. Kildare) of Green St Barrack m. Catherine Keane (d. of Patrick Keane & Eliza Campbell of Blanchardstown) of Blanchardstown on 16 November 1882 Wit: Bernard Dunn of Tyrone Place & Mary Keane of of Blanchardstown. St. Mary Pro-Cathedral Parish
Thomas Treacy, full [age], bachelor, policeman, lives Green Street Station, (s. of Patrick Treacy, deceased, labourer) married Catherine Kane, full [age], spinster, BLANK profession, lives Blanchardstown Co. Dublin, (d. of Patrick Kane, deceased, labourer) 16 November 1882 RC Cathedral Dublin Wit: Bernard Dunne & Mary Kane [Dublin North PLU] signed her mark
In the 1911 Census, Patrick was living with his uncle Thomas:
1911 Census
Thomas, Treacy, Niall St., 57, M, Arran Quay Dublin (b. Kildare), widower, Retired D U Police
Mary, Treacy, Niall St., 28, F, Arran Quay Dublin - daughter
Patrick, Treacy, Niall St., 22, M, Arran Quay Dublin (b. Kildare – nephew), Railway Clerk
I have not found Patrick in the Military Archives, but it maybe that his records have not been released yet.
Regards,
Dec
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Hi,
I should have checked this further. Patrick's uncle Peter was married 12 January 1914 in Monasterevin and was also on the same marriage registration sheet:
Peter Treacy, full age, widower, farmer, lives Ballagh [is in Coolnafearagh Monasterevin], (s. of Patrick Treacy, deceased, workman) married Elizabeth/Lizzie Donoher, full age, spinster, private life, lives Inchicooley [Inchacooly Lea Laois], (d. of John Donoher, farmer) 12 January 1914 RC Church Monasterevin Wit: Francis Dempsey & Annie Donoher [Monasterevin Athy PLU]
Regards,
Dec
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Peter Treacy, full age, widower, farmer, lives Ballagh [is in Coolnafearagh Monasterevin]...........
Coolnafearagh townland
https://www.townlands.ie/kildare/west-offaly/monasterevin/monasterevin/coolnafearagh/
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Sorry I don't know if the Newspapers are available any where else.
Margaret is also buried in Yew Tree probably with her parents.
An Eamon Broy mentions a Pat Tracey twice in his Witness Statement
https://www.militaryarchives.ie/collections/online-collections/bureau-of-military-history-1913-1921/reels/bmh/BMH.WS1285.pdf#page=21
and page 23 by the PDF page count.
these are pages 20 and 22 by the typed pages