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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: bhunter on Tuesday 14 August 12 21:25 BST (UK)

Title: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Tuesday 14 August 12 21:25 BST (UK): I have a Rosie BRYAN that married Benjamin Babington PEAD in about 1897 but I can't find their marriage on FreeBDM. The 1901 census has Rosie's birth place as London, and the 1911 census has it as Camden Town, London.

I can't find a birth entry for Rosie BRYAN either nor can I find her in the 1881 or 1891 censuses.

Rosie & Benjamin PEAD had at least 8 children - Edward, (Clifford) Benjamin, Denis, Arthur, Phyllis, Gerald, Raymond and Eric.

Thanks
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: Richard Knott on Tuesday 14 August 12 21:43 BST (UK): The nearest I can find for her birth is:

Rosetta Strutter Bryan d Annie Bryan (illeg) b 27 Dec 1876 bap (as Truter rather than Strutter) 1879.

If this is the right one, it may be that her mother remarried so that she is in 1881/91 under her mother's new name.

(And they may never have married).

Richard
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: DORAN54 on Tuesday 14 August 12 21:52 BST (UK): hi,, came across this

pead benjamin babington
of 1 wellesley road wanstead essex died 15 april 1923
administration with will london 5th may
to rosie bryan WIFE OF thomas william bryan

effects £48 .18 shillings
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: DORAN54 on Tuesday 14 August 12 21:56 BST (UK): KELLYS DIRECTORY 1881
benjamin babington pead ,carlton commercial hotel 23 granby st
leicestershire
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:02 BST (UK): Rosie PEAD is 38 in 1911 and 29 in 1901. The birth certificate of her son has her as Rosie PEAD formerly BRYAN.

Benjamin Babington PEAD who died in 1923 is the correct man - thanks. Maybe Thomas William BRYAN is her father or brother. I shall look for him.

Thanks
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:09 BST (UK): Hello,

Free BMD has a marriage: Islington June quarter 1890

possible spouses:
Thomas William Bryan and Rose Vize

regards
heywood
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: DORAN54 on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:12 BST (UK): well the will says wife of thomas william bryan???
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:19 BST (UK): How strange!

I shall look for Rose Vize.

Thanks
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: Sharon01 on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:23 BST (UK): Hi,

Rosie Vize baptised on 07/09/1876 (born 13/04/1872) at Oseney Crescent St Luke.

Parents Alfred Richard Vize (fencing master) & Charlotte.

Abode Georgiana Street.

Also baptised on same day were Harry, William, Ernest.

Sharon
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:25 BST (UK): 1891 1059/26/44

Thomas W and Rose Bryan are living in Hornsey, Middlesex. She is 18 yrs and Thomas is a Solicitor.
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: Sharon01 on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:27 BST (UK): 1881 census has her living with her mother, Edward, William & Ernest at 69 Crayford Road, Islington

RG11/Piece 245/ Folio 22/Page 37

Sharon
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:34 BST (UK): Looks like Thomas William BRYAN is a bit of a cradle snatcher!

Thanks to everyone for the help - all looks like quite exciting!

B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: DORAN54 on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:42 BST (UK): Quote from: DORAN54 on Tuesday 14 August 12 21:56 BST (UK)
KELLYS DIRECTORY 1881
benjamin babington pead ,carlton commercial hotel 23 granby st
leicestershire

very funny set up he's in leicestershire 1881 she's with parents 1891 with the person who is mentioned in the will as her husband??????
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:57 BST (UK): Quote from: bhunter on Tuesday 14 August 12 22:34 BST (UK)
Looks like Thomas William BRYAN is a bit of a cradle snatcher!

Thanks to everyone for the help - all looks like quite exciting!

B

Thomas isn't that much older than Rose. He is 25 yrs - 7 yrs older.
On the other hand,Benjamin is 18 yrs older than Rose.

I can't see Benjamin in 1881 but he is 'married' to Eliza in 1891. I can't find a marriage.
If Benjamin wasn't married previously, and as Rose is married to Mr Bryan that is presumably the reason why there is no marriage between Benjamin and Rose.
Maybe the will would confirm that.
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 14 August 12 23:00 BST (UK): Found him in 1881 with wife Eliza - transcribed as Babing Pind.
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 14 August 12 23:04 BST (UK): Marriage is mistranscribed on Free BMD - Paed

Lancashire BMD has marriage 1880 Benjamin Babington Pead to Elizabeth Fley

Likely death of Eliza Pead (born abt 1847) december quarter 1896 West Ham
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Wednesday 15 August 12 13:46 BST (UK): Eliza HEY (1st wife of Benjamin Babinton PEAD) was previously married and her maiden name seems to have been DENNES - I found the marriage on LDS.

Thanks
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 15 August 12 14:05 BST (UK): I think this is her marriage from FS: Eliza Dunn (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVWF-7BH)
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Wednesday 15 August 12 16:59 BST (UK): I am now trying unsucessfully to find the marriage of Rosie VIZE's parents Alfred Richard VIZE and Charlotte, don't know her maiden name but she was born in Grantham, Lincolnshire in about 1841.

I did find a marriage for Alfred Richard VIZE in 1839 in London to Mary Hatch BADCOCK with father Edward VIZE. This means Alfred VIZE would have had to have been born about 1820 which fits with a LDS baptism but not with the census ???.

Frustrating!
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 15 August 12 20:19 BST (UK): I think it may well be that Alfred was married to Mary Hatch Badcock and therefore not married to Charlotte.
You will need a birth certificate of one of the children to get her surname.
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Thursday 16 August 12 12:22 BST (UK): Thanks.
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 August 12 13:35 BST (UK): This is speculation and nothing else to support it:

Their first child was born 1862 -St Pancras (I think from memory)

1861 has a Charlotte Thorpe b abt 1836 living in St Pancras - birth place Bitchfield.
Charlotte gives Bitchfield as birthplace in 1871.

You would wonder why she would give her age as younger though in later censuses - especially when Alfred was already much older. :-\
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Thursday 16 August 12 15:46 BST (UK): Alfred VIZE seems to get younger too! I have a LDS birth for him of 1820 but in 1861 he was 35. His death seems to have been 1890 aged 55!

In 1861 Afred is a lodger at 6 Kentish Town, St Pancras but I don't know the name of the people with whom he was lodging.

Thanks
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 August 12 17:45 BST (UK): The family are Findlater, I think and they are on Victoria Road.It looks as though he is simply a lodger. He is unmarried :-\ I wonder where Mary H is?
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: bhunter on Friday 17 August 12 11:48 BST (UK): Thanks.

Seems like Mary Hatch BADCOCK and Alfred Richard VIZE had a son - Alfred Edward VIZE born 1943 in Islington. He and his mother are in the 1871 census in Holborn, Pentonville, St James Clerkenwell, London. Also in 1851 census in Islington.

Can't find them in 1861. :(
B
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: heywood on Friday 17 August 12 13:39 BST (UK): No I couldn't find them either.

I think there was also a daughter Emily Augusta Vize b 1841 who married George Smallman in 1860.
Title: Re: Rosie BRYAN - birth look up
Post by: suevize on Saturday 27 April 13 12:56 BST (UK): ALFRED RICHARD VIZE

Not sure about Charlotte, but Alfred Richard Vize married Mary Hatch Badcock 2 Aug 1839 in Shoreditch. They had three children:
Georgiana Mary Vize b abt Sep 1839 Hackney, m Henry Bradforth 4 Dec 1859 Islington, d abt Apr 1903 Wandsworth
Emily Augusta Vize b abt Sep 1841 Islington, m George Smallman 2 Mar 1860 Battle, d abt Sep 1920 Lambeth
Alfred Edward Vize b 12 Mar 1843 Islington, d abt Apr 1888 Lambeth.

1841 census - Alfred and Mary with baby Georgiana, also Alfred's mother Grace
1851 census - Alfred and Mary with 3 children
1861 census - Alfred "single lodger"; Mary living with son Alfred
1871 census - Alfred living with Charlotte; Mary living with son Alfred

Mary continued to use the name Mary Vize. She appear to be the Mary Vize who died in 1894 in Wandsworth.

There does not appear to be any marriage between Alfred and Charlotte (and in fact several of Alfred's children and grandchildren appear to have made similar arrangements).

ROSIE VIZE

Married Thomas William BRYAN on 14 Jun 1890. They don't appear to have had any children.
There is no evidence that she married Benjamin Babington PEAD as she appears to have stayed married to Thomas - she is named as "wife of Thomas William Bryan" in Ben's will.

She may have married William A MURRAY in 1924?

Benjamin's first wife's name is transcribed in many variable ways. Her maiden name appears to have been DUNN or DENNES depending on whose transcription you use. It is hard to see. Her married name has also been transcribed variably but it looks like "KEY" to me rather than "HEY". Her death was registered in Dec 1896, just before Ben gets together with Rosie.

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