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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Peggy13 on Tuesday 14 August 12 04:57 BST (UK)
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I am told that Martha Carson Boyd held a license at Whitesabbey in 1862. Does that mean she had a pub?
Can anyone tell me more about Martha and her license? Where is Whitesabbey?
Thank you
Peggy
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Hello
Whitehouse District Antrim
William Young born 8th march 1866
father William Young mother Martha Carson Boyd
John Boyd Young born 22nd August 1867
Shankhill Whitehouse Antrim
father William Young mother Martha Carson Boyd
Ellen Victoria Young birth 9 th Jan 1870 birth place Belfast No 7 Antrim
Father William Young mothe Martha Carson Boyd FHL film No 101200
Eveline Martha Young birth 14th November 1878 Dublin irelandfather William Young mother Martha Carson Young Boyd
Whiteabbey was a townland in county Antrim
There is a marriage 1865 of a Martha Carson Boyd to a William 1865 Belfast It is a paid site emeraldancesters. for ancesters from Ulster
The finest Linen fabrics came from around Whiteabbey and Whitehouse, Just google Whiteabbey.
Whiskey distilling in the bushmills area has been traced back to 1494 it was in 1608 a licence to make "Aquavita" was granted to Sir Thomas Phillips maybe she had a licence to distill whiskey??
There was a Hugh Boyd who had coal mines in the 1750s.
Regards Pam
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This is great information, Pam. Thank you very much. I was guessing that because Martha had Carson as her middle name that she is somehow related to my Samuel Carson Boyd line. Samuel Carson Boyd was born about 1780, not sure where, but thinking Carnmoney. His mother was Jenny Boyd nee Carson. His aunt was Isabella George nee Carson. Thanks again. I will look in emeraldancestors for Martha's marriage.
Peggy
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Peggy, this refers to a spirit license, ie. to sell beers / spirits, or to use the vernacular of the time "to deal in spirituous liquors".
The Belfast Newsletter of 1862 confirms the granting of a transfer of such a license to Martha Carson Boyd of Whiteabbey from a Matthew Keown.
Three years later in 1865, a transfer is granted of the license from Martha Carson Boyd to a Victoria Boyd of Whiteabbey, Carnmoney.
The next transfer of the license is granted in 1887, from Victoria Boyd to a William Christie of Whiteabbey.
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The Belfast Street Directory (villages) for 1861 has a Matthew Keown as the proprietor of the 'Belfast Hotel' in Whiteabbey.
The Belfast Street Directory (villages) for 1868 shows a Miss Boyd as the proprietor of the 'Belfast Hotel' in Whiteabbey.
I think there's a good probability that these are the licensed premises in question.
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Interesting. I thought it had something to do with spirits. I also notice that in 1865 Victoria Boyd is from Whiteabbey, Carnmoney. Thinking more and more these persons are related to my Samuel Carson Boyd born 1780, possibly Carnmoney to a Mr.Boyd and Jenny nee Carson. Samuel Carson Boyd took over a wine and Brandy merchant business when his uncle Samuel Carson died in Oxford, England in 1810. then Samuel emigrated to Canada about 1830.
Thanks ever so much.
Oh, I see your new post. Great. So they were proprietors of the Belfast Hotel. Thank you, thank you.
Peggy
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Hi,
I have been looking around and I see John Boyd in connection with the Belfast Hotel in Whiteabbey in 1851.
Peggy
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PRONI have a Will for Victoria Boyd (dated 4 Aug.1890)- "The Will of Victoria Boyd late of Whiteabbey County Antrim Spinster who died 26 September 1890 at same place was proved at Belfast by Ellen Boyd of Whiteabbey Spinster the sole Executrix." Only relative mentioned is sister Ellen Boyd.
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
The registration of her death gives her age and a middle name-
Victoria Elizabeth Boyd, age 52 (born c1838), Oct./Dec.1890 Belfast registration district volume 1 page 251
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1877 & 1880 directories lists an Ellen Boyd, postmistress and a Miss Boyd proprietor of Belfast Hotel-
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1877VD.htm
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/VillageDirectory1880.htm
The directories say Whiteabbey is just over 5 miles from Belfast.
1868 Miss Boyd at Hotel but Ellen is not postmistress-
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1868VD.htm
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Thank you very much, Aghadowey. I did find Victoria's will, also one for a Hugh Boyd, but did not find any for my Jenny Boyd or any Boyd between 1780 and 1820.
Peggy
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... or any Boyd between 1780 and 1820.
There are no pre-1858 Wills in the database- this is explained on the website: The database covers the period 1858-1919 and 1922-1943. Part of 1921 has been added, with remaining entries for 1920-1921 to follow in the near future. What you are looking at for pre-1900 Wills are the entries in the Will Books as the actual Wills/Administration paperwork does not survive.
PRONI have a whole section for their information leaflets (http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/research_and_records_held/catalogues_guides_indexes_and_leaflets/information_leaflets.htm). This one explains about Wills & Probate-
http://www.proni.gov.uk/no.7_-_wills_and_probate__41kb_.pdf
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Thanks again, aghadowey. That escaped my notice.
Peggy
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Griffiths Valuation for this area is virtually contemporary with the period when Matthew Keown gave up the license for the Belfast Hotel.
If you search for all residents in Whiteabbey village (search for 'white abbey', ie. with a space between the words) you will see Matthew Keown with several properties together (references 77 / 78 / 79) which the valuation would indicate are more substantial than surrounding properties - part or all of these are likely to be the Belfast Hotel.
There are two Boyds listed, a John (reference 60) living in a seemingly ordinary house and an Andrew Boyd in a more substantial property which is the very next entry (reference 80) to the Matthew Keown listing. This initially seemed like too much of a coincidence, however when I glanced at the (quite long) will for Andrew Boyd of Whiteabbey (he only died a few years later) I could see nothing to tie it in to the whole Martha Carson / Victoria Boyd story - go look at it yourself on the PRONI website.
So the proximity of Andrew Boyd might be co-incidental after all. Boyd is a common enough surname in the wider Carnmoney parish area...
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Hi,
Martha Carson BOYD married William YOUNG on 30 Jan 1865 at Carnmoney Church of Ireland. Martha's fathers name is John
Margaret
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Thank you very much, Gaffy and Margaret. I did wonder if Martha's father was John as he had the Belfast Hotel in 1852 according to Lennon Wylie. I was trying to track the Hotel even further back but couldn't find it. I am also wondering if Matthew Keown is related to the family somehow.
I am going to go read Andrew's will now. and also look at the Griffiths Valuation. Thanks for the heads up.
Peggy
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I need some help in finding the Griffiths Valuation for Whiteabbey in 1861. Can't seem to get into proper area.
thanks
Peggy
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Try this link Peggy:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=46316&county=Antrim&barony=Belfast, lower&parish=Carnmoney&townland=<b>White abbey</b>
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Hi Gaffy,
I found the page which also has John Boyd on it. I see Andrew Boyd and others as occupiers with Hugh McCalmont as Lessor - does that mean landlord? Hugh is mentioned in Andrew's will. Then I see James Smyth and others as occupiers with Andrew Boyd as lessor.
Thanks for your help
Peggy
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Hi Peggy, I throw it open to the readers here - was lessor effectively landlord in Griffiths Valuation?
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I googled lessor. In the case of a rental apartment, the lessor is the landlord. So probably the same in Griffiths Valuation.
Peggy
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The term used in Griffith's Valuation is actually immediate lessor- which means the person the occupier paid rent to but many properties were sublet so it's not always easy to know who actually owned the property.
It is explained on the Ask About Ireland site under Griffith's Valuation- see here (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/understanding-the-valuati/immediate-lessors/).
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Thank you Aghadowey. Learning all the time.
Peggy
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I was wondering if this thread is still alive?
My 3rd great-grand father Matthew Keown is mentioned in the transfer of the Whiteabbey hotel.
He married Jane Boyd [nee Hay].
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I am still interested in the Boyd family. Do you know who Jane Boyd nee Hay was originally married to, her parents, and her first husband Boyd's first name and his parents. I am thinking she may be connected to my Boyds.
Peggy
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Hello Peggy,
Thanks for your reply.
I know very little of Jane Hay Boyd. She says her father is Samuel Hay a Smith [no mention of being deceased] on marriage certificate and that she is a widow aged 40 and a Publican at Whiteabbey. Married Co Antrim. [United church] She was 25 yrs younger than Matthew.[experience shown, that could be rounded up or down by either party to make it respectable!!]
I have trawled records for her birth, marriage and death even a 3rd marriage to no avail. Jane was still alive in Oct 1867 when Matthew passed away. That's it! hope you have a connection to get some clues as to where to search from here.
Kaz
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Martha got the license in 1862 from Matthew Keown, and then relinquished it in 1865 when she married William Young. Martha's father was John Boyd who is likely the John Boyd who had the license for the Belfast Hotel in 1852. Could Jane be Martha's sister? When was Jane born approx.? Martha born abt 1840. When was Jane age 40? When did she marry Matthew?
Peggy
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Jane was 40 in Aug 1855, so would be circa 1815. oops Janes father was Samuel according to her marriage!
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I made a mistake too. Jane was married to a Boyd, so couldn't be Martha's sister. Martha's mother? I wonder when Martha's father John died. 1855ish? Then Jane remarried to Matthew Keown and he took over the pub. Just a theory that needs investigation.
You did say before that Jane's father was Samuel Hay.
Peggy
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We have that John Boyd married Jane Hay on Oct 1, 1837 in Carrickfergus as per Belfast News. Would anyone have that marriage to find John's father?
Also, John was alive in 1852 but deceased before Aug 1855 when Jane remarried to Matthew Keown. Can anyone find John.s death in Whiteabbey in that time frame?
Thanks for any help.
Peggy
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Thank you very much, Gaffy and Margaret. I did wonder if Martha's father was John as he had the Belfast Hotel in 1852 according to Lennon Wylie. I was trying to track the Hotel even further back but couldn't find it. I am also wondering if Matthew Keown is related to the family somehow.
I am going to go read Andrew's will now. and also look at the Griffiths Valuation. Thanks for the heads up.
Peggy
Peggy:
This is a very old thread and I'm not sure if you ever made a connection between Martha and Andrew Boyd, but just to let you know, as far as I am aware, the Andrew Boyd from White Abbey, who's will you found, was probably my 3x GG. He was a Land Steward for Hugh McCalmont of the Abbey Lands and his son John was a prominent Belfast Architect. I have never been able to confirm the maiden name of Andrew's wife. There was a marriage between Andrew Boyd and Mary Hunter in Carnmoney Parish in 1818 but I haven't been able to confirm that was my 3x GG or another Andrew Boyd. My 3X GG died in 1866 at the age of 75, so he was born about 1791. If you learned anything more about him that you think might be of interest to me, please let me know, especially if you found a connection to Marth. I can also tell you that there was a work connection to a Hugh Boyd, which may be the Hugh Boyd mentioned in this thread, since there was also many mentions of Hugh Boyd and Andrew Boyd both working as Land Stewards for the Abbey Lands, so that may or may not be helpful to you or others.
Steve Redmond.
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I just found an article from 1857 in which Martha Carson Boyd was involved in a court case regarding assault on James Downey. When she was called as a witness, she said she was a daughter of Mrs. McKeown, owner of the hotel in Whiteabbey.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t5d/
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Sorry, that should say Mrs. McKeown.
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You're able to edit your post within 24 hours.
Just highlight 'Keown'. click the Strikethrough button and add after it McKeown.
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I have been thinking about the 1857 newsarticle in which it is reported that Martha Carson Boyd's mother is Mrs. McKeown. This is only true if her parents were John Boyd (as per her marriage to William Young in 1865) and Jane Hay. John and Jane Hay were married in 1837 in Carrickfergus, and John Boyd must have died before 1855 when Jane remarried to Matthew Keown aka McKeown.
So when Martha got the license in 1862, it was from her stepfather Matthew. Makes sense.
We need John's marriage to see if it names his father, or his birth abt 1810 (same time frame as Samuel Carson Boyd's son John but I don't think it is him) or his death 1852-1855.
Another possibility is that John and Jane separated.
Presuming John died, perhaps there is a record of his death, or a newspaper notice or writeup.
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If Martha Carson Boyd was 25 when she married in 1865, she was born abt 1840. Sister Victoria was age 52 when she died in 1890, as per her death certificate so born abt. 1838. If I have found the correct death of Ellen in 1913, she was age 66 so born abt 1847.
Does this mean that Jane Hays mother was Victoria and John's mother was Martha?
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I have just learned that Ellen Boyd died in South Africa in 1928, age 84-86 so born 1842-1844. So she is youngest daughter, with Victoria the oldest and Martha in the middle.
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If you are related to Boyd’s from Whiteabbey, I wonder if you have done any DNA testing. If we compared our DNA results we could establish whether your Boyd ancestors were related to mine. My 3X GG Andrew Boyd spent most of his life in Whiteabbey and was a Land Stewart for the Abbeylands Estate of the McCalmont family.
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I am related to Samuel Carson Boyd and Mary Lawson of Kilbride. I do not know if I am related to Martha Carson Boyd of White Abbey. Having said that, I have done my DNA with ancestry and with Family Tree DNA.
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I am also on Ancestry and FTdna under Stephen Redmond. You can check my name to see if there’s a match. If there is you can let me know by private message.
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Personal e-mail addresses aren't allowed on the RootsChat forum. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc. This type of information should be exchanged via personal message.
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Would anyone have access to the marriage record of John Boyd to Jane Hay October 1, 1837 in Carrickfergus to see if his father is mentioned? I can’t find a record of his death either 1851 to 1855.
Thank you kindly
Peggy
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Hi Peggy, just reading your post that we connected with a few years back.
Jane Hay and John Boyd, parents of Ellen Boyd, I have Ellen Boyds death certificate, she died a spinster, aged 66, in 1913 Belfast. witness niece Ellen B McGuffin. Cheers Suzy
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I thought that was Ellen‘s death in Belfast in 1913 until I was showing the death in South Africa in 1928. Ellen from South Africa has a will in which the beneficiaries are the children of her sister Martha Carson Boyd Young. So I am thinking the South Africa death is the correct one.
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Here is the link to Ellen’s Will in South Africa. She names her parents as John and Jane Boyd.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2517051
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Well great find! Pity some of the others hadn't died where they give so much detail! Wonder who this other Ellen belongs to? I have almost given up on ever finding my Keown links after Matthew.
Thank again Kaz
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I found the marriage of John McGuffin to Ellen Boyd Wilson in 1901 and she was born 1869 to William Wilson and Eliza Boyd, who married in 1845, her father James of Ahoghill. So Eliza Boyd was a sister to Ellen Boyd who died 1913 at age 66 so born 1847ish.
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I found Ellen Boyd in 1911 on Park Road living with John McGuffin and his wife Ellen Boyd nee Wilson. Ellen Boyd was 64.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t5o/
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Here is Ellen age 54 in 1901 on Park Road with sister Mary Jane age 60 and niece Ellen Boyd Wilson.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t5p/
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Thank, for sharing this information, Peggy.