RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: bloogy on Monday 13 August 12 12:25 BST (UK)
-
im thinking of offering commemorative BMD certificates as a service. I would make it clear that they are commemorative ONLY and not for official use, as well as link to the official ones on the GRO site. They would be very elegant, on coloured card with floral, decorative surrounds and the details entered in calligraphic writing.
I would love peoples opinions and I have two questions, but all comments would be welcome.
1) is there much call for these?
2) how pretty are official certificates? are they b & w and boring? or good enough to frame?
thanks in advance
tom
-
Why would we want to pay through the nose fees for certificates they are dear enough from GRO
-
It is extremely worrying that you are contemplating offering such certificates without seemingly knowing what an official certificate looks like.
How do you intend to obtain the information to enter on your certificate? Presumably you will need to purchase an official certificate. How do you gaurantee that you have the correct certificate? What experience do you have of reading old handwriting so that your information is correct?
What advantage do your certificates have over for example marriage certificates from the local registry office that can contain the original signatures of the people involved?
What sort of price do you envisage?
-
Hi
A quick google shows that a number of Local Register offices already offer a commemorative certificate service, and the GRO offers commemorative marriage certificates for 25th, 40th, 50th and 60th wedding anniversaries.
Andy
-
Tom, Am I correct in thinking that people would come to you with a particular certificate (be it their child's birth, their grandparent's marriage etc etc) and you would basically set out the information it contains in a decorative way in order that it can be framed?
(I think this is not David's interpretation of your idea ;))
Can you please clarify.
I would advise you to have a look at some certificates so you can see for yourself how they look (google should bring some examples up for you).
I think you might get some interested parties - would these certificates be hand drawn or would you use some kind of computer package? I think with the availability of these things today, that it would not be beyond the ability of many people to produce something half decent themselves using some free art or graphics software.
-
This is a link to what the GRO offers for commemorative certificates
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176276.pdf
Actually I think its a nice idea - would make a great christening / wedding / anniversary / birthday present etc but I do agree that there are a lot of computer packages out there that a person could really design and make up their own so in my opinion it would really have to be handmade and very special
-
2) how pretty are official certificates? are they b & w and boring? or good enough to frame?
Hi Tom :)
Your profile shows a link to your website which contains a wealth of information about marriage certificates - surely you've also seen one?
-
When I married last year, Chester Register Office offered just this service!
I'm sure they aren't the only RO offering this.
-
It is extremely worrying that you are contemplating offering such certificates without seemingly knowing what an official certificate looks like.
How do you intend to obtain the information to enter on your certificate? Presumably you will need to purchase an official certificate. How do you gaurantee that you have the correct certificate? What experience do you have of reading old handwriting so that your information is correct?
What advantage do your certificates have over for example marriage certificates from the local registry office that can contain the original signatures of the people involved?
What sort of price do you envisage?
im familiar with the layout of a marriage certificate, but I dont know whether the copy ones from the GRO look the same, are in colour, or whether the ones ordered from register offices look any different. is there a standard design?
Tom, Am I correct in thinking that people would come to you with a particular certificate (be it their child's birth, their grandparent's marriage etc etc) and you would basically set out the information it contains in a decorative way in order that it can be framed?
(I think this is not David's interpretation of your idea ;))
Can you please clarify.
is behindthefrogs David?
I haven't got that far actually! I just have an interest in marriage and its history, and along with that am quite artistic. So it came into my head to try and put that to use. Now you and behindthefrogs have given me a dilemma.
so, if im correct, I can do these certificates one of two ways:
a) ask for all relevant details, and just copy them over then post it off. cheap, easy, but they have to know the details themselves, and they could also do something as good if they put a bit of time into it.
b) order an official one, then use those details to copy across. a lot more expensive but easier for them.
do you or anyone else have any opinions on these methods?
I see several register offices offer such a service but not all. and the GRO one is £23. so perhaps if I can come in substantially below this it might be a good offer?
-
All GRO certificates including the one that you originally provided with are copies of the register entry and as such have the same appearance and colour. There can be some variance in the way the information is entered on to the certificate which varies from computer printed, through photocopied from the register to handwritten.
David
-
I would think that anyone who is interested in this service would probably already have purchased the certificate. It may be an historical certificate or a recent one.
They could then forward a scan or photocopy of this to you depending on how hi-tech you intend to go (having various options might be a good idea).
I suppose if there is a specific certificate they wished to have 'done' but they didn't have the certificate, you could offer to purchase it for them and add the £9.25 to your fee. But as David has pointed out, there may be times when you don't know which is the correct birth, marriage or death to know which certificate to purchase :-\ ....
I agree with baggygenes that you would have to offer a quality product to stand out from the crowd with this - maybe even hand written/drawn in ink on really good paper/parchment, including hand drawn/painted decorative embellishments. (calligraphy style) You could also offer various styles such as illuminated manuscript style, Victorian style, art-deco style, or 'personalised' style etc etc. ;D
This would take it out of the realm of anything that the Register Offices could supply or that most people would have the ability or perserverence to undertake themselves. Time involved would make this very costly I imagine and I don't know if your abilities extend this far. I can't guess at how many people would be interested in anything like this.
A framing service would also be an additional thing you could consider. (Those plaster cast, guilded, framed baby feet - pink for the girl and blue for the boy, come to mind ;))
It is a nice idea, but I think it would have to be something very special and you would have to put some work into marketing this service.
My imagination might be running away with me a bit, but these are just my thoughts .....
-
thank you for that ruskie thats a very helpful reply! you have given me some great ideas.
im going to give it a shot, buy enough stock to do 20 or so certificates and see if they sell.
i'll try it where they supply me with all the details first and see what happens...
-
Good luck with it bloogy! :)
-
Bloogy, why don't you contact your 'local' record offices which supply this service, to see what kind of response they get?
Out here in Oz, these special certificates are available from some Reg. General departments too, for a price, and I think the most popular ones are probably christening / birth ones but I may be wrong. I guess marriage certificates would be a good bet, too, for newly married as well as for anniversaries.
Dawn M
-
Is there not a copyright issue with reproducing bmd certificates commercially?
-
Is there not a copyright issue with reproducing bmd certificates commercially?
I don't know but I would think yes for the form but not for the information on it
-
Afraid I am unable to see the point. For me the whole point of buying a cert is to be sure I am getting the GRO version. What use is someting transcribed into a pretty frame?
-
Afraid I am unable to see the point. For me the whole point of buying a cert is to be sure I am getting the GRO version. What use is someting transcribed into a pretty frame?
Contrary to our beliefs, the GRO and similar don't exist to supply info for family historians!
Many people (living) apparently want to buy these certificates in a memorial presentation, for sentimental purposes.
:P :P :P
And Ray T would be correct - as the information is publicly available (for a price but public nevertheless) it is not copyright. What is copyright is the way it is presented.
Dawn M
-
Afraid I am unable to see the point. For me the whole point of buying a cert is to be sure I am getting the GRO version. What use is someting transcribed into a pretty frame?
Think of it like when people sew birth or wedding samplers. Its just to commemorate a special occasion or special people not for every certificate of every ancestor in your tree
-
there are plenty of sites doing commemorative certificates, family heralds, tartan, all that kind of stuff. so there must be a strong market for it all, I think its very popular in america.
and along with that there are several sites which sell GRO certificates for a profit without telling the customer that they can get them direct from the GRO for cheaper. these sites have not been told to stop doing so, only to stop pretending to be "official" or connected to the GRO in some way.
-
and along with that there are several sites which sell GRO certificates for a profit without telling the customer that they can get them direct from the GRO for cheaper. these sites have not been told to stop doing so, only to stop pretending to be "official" or connected to the GRO in some way.
Technically they are not selling certificates if you read the fine print on Ancestry for example, they are acting as your agent and purchasing a certificate from the GRO on your behalf. Ancestry also states please be aware that there are other certificate ordering services available and that costs do vary In a way it is no different than getting a professional researcher to research your family. You are simply paying somebody else to do something or purchase something you could do yourself.
Whilst the information contained on a certificate is not a problem it might be worth checking with the GRO if you intend using any other part of the certificate such as the logo.
Andy