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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: LisaGlv on Sunday 12 August 12 13:21 BST (UK)
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I am trying to determine the date of the marriage of my great great grand parents - Edward Hodson born 1841 and Harriet Bridget Colepepper born 1841 Blackfriars London. Their first child [that I have found] Louisa Ann was born in 1865, so I have been looking at dates from up to 4 years prior to this until 1871 when she appears as Harriet Briget Hodson on the census. I cannot find Harriet on the 1861 census but have her on every other one - as Colepepper up to 1851 and then as Hodson from 1871 onwards. I have her birth and death entries but cannot find any record of a marriage - having done searches on both her and Edward. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Lisa
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If there is no marriage then perhaps they didn't marry, not unheard off in those time
Look for variations on Colepepper, although I can't find a marriage even listing on phonetic search
Louisa Maud
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Their first child Louisa Ann was baptised in 1865 in Deptford address given as 7 ST James St, ST Johns Road
Have you searched for Harriet's parents, Frederick Henry and Louisa Emily on 1861 or any of her siblings, I can't help thinking that perhaps Edward was married before he met Harriet or she is miss-spelt
Looks as if father died by 1851, if so did Louisa marry again
LM
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Hi,
The IGI gives 2 marriage dates betweenthis couple 29/11/1863 & 31/7.1864 both in Bromley. However been through the images and cannot see their names. The IGI does not appear to show submitted entries???????
John
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Hi,
Family search has two marriages for Edward & Harriet.
29/11/1863, Bromley Kent & 31/07/1864, Bromley Kent.
Can not see these marriages on freebmd though.
Sharon
snap!!
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That's interesting, I wonder why they are not on line anywhere else, I did wonder what the occupation of the father was, at this moment I can't find Frederick Henry or Louisa Emily, Harriet's parents on 1841, it did occur to me there might be a foreign connection and Harriet had married abroad, but not so as you have found them, I cannot find her on 1861 with her mother either, father was already deceased.
Parents married 1838 Lambeth , Frederick Henry Colepepper and Louisa Emily Thompson
Looks as if you have solved the problem so I will back off
LM
PS father shown on Harriet's bapt as a mariner, Charles St Walworth Southwark
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LM,
Dont back off yet. Are there any rc's with access to the IGI source film 1042456.
John
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A big thank you to all the people that have put time into this. Interesting that there appear to be 2 dates for the marriage - if anyone can come up with conclusive evidence that would be fantastic.
Just a bit of family background for this family. Harriet's mother was called Louisa Emily and her father was Frederic Henry. He was a master mariner for the East India Company. He died in 1848, leaving 5 children including Harriet. By 1851, only 2 children were with their mother - Daughter Louisa was in teh London Orphan Asylum in Hackney; Harriet was in the Merchant Seaman orphanage in Bromley; Mary was in an orphanage in Wanstead, Essex. Frederick and Martha were with their mother.
By 1861, Louisa had remarried and was now Louisa Cavanagh and of the 5 children, only Martha was still living with her, along with a daughter by the second marriage - ELizabeth, aged 8. Of the other 4, I can only find Frederick on the 1861 census - I can find no trace of Louisa, Mary or Harriet, although they all reappear by the 1871 census. A sad story with the children being so seperated in 1851.
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General Register Office
PO Box 2
Southport
PR8 2JD
Tel 0300 123 1837
As the marriage(s) aren't listed other than the IGI the address above is the general registrar, if you write, or perhaps better still ring them they will advise you how to go about ordering the certificate, Colepepper.Hodson,
this will give you an address nearer to 1861 census where you just might be able to find her living with another family, or by another name, interest might also be the witnesses at the marriage
I have just rung Kent register office who advised me this might be the best way to go about it, you must of course tell them they are only listed on IGI, unless anyone else has found them on free BMD's
Just a suggestion, Best of Luck
Louisa Maud
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Found her in 1861!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RG9 450 4 3. The clue was her mother remarrying. Harriet CAVANAGH 19 Barmaid born Blackfriers-A****try shows Blackburn. Have tried to find a marriage of Harriet under the name Cavanagh-no joy.
John
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John, I thought someone had already found the marriage Bromley Kent for Edward and Harriet
Must admit didn't check Cavanagh
LM
PS, I did look at this but it was shown she was born Blackburn which put me off, I have corrected it and it should show up in due course
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The IGI batch number starts with an I which is a bit unusual - does anyone know what that signifies? (I03639-7)
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I don't know much about the IGI, hopefully someone might, what does intrigue me is that they are missing from Ancestry and Free BMD's, if it were me I would get in touch with ONS, might be a register office marriage, I do wonder how they compile the marriages online up to 1921, if these are from the actual ledgers then I don't think anyone can be missed off but you never know, do you ?
Louisa Maud
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I searched on the LDS site for an explanation of Batch I....
Whoever contributed this article doesn't know either !
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/IGI_Batch_Number_Descriptions
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Strange that they are not listed and only shown on IGI
I have found 4 family trees with her name on, her marriage to Edward is there but shown as 2 dates, so whoever these trees belong to hasn't found her marriage, only on IGI it looks like
They were both full age when they married,
I do believe if one orders a cert on line at ONS, doesn't give a reference number, in this case there isn't one, includes as much info as possible, father's name and her rightful surname they will search 3 years, so one could ask for 1863 and 1864 I suppose, if they don't find the relevant information the money I do believe is returned, worth pursuing
Louisa Maud
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It looks as if this has all been gone through before with the same results almost, no actual marriage found
LM
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Here's the earlier thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,503592.0.html
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Here is the source detail on film 1042456:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatalog-search-api%3A8080%2Fwww-catalogapi-webservice%2Fitem%2F334866
It includes the banns book which could explain why there are 2 dates. On the other hand it doesn't appear to include a marriage register. Someone needs to eyeball the original records to get to the bottom of this
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It appears to be St Peter and St Paul Bromley, wonder where these ledgers are kept, wouldn't it be nice if a kind person would look these up for Lisa
Just wish I was in the Kent area, I would do it
LM
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"Microfilm of original records in the Kent County Record Office, Maidstone, and in the Central Library in Bromley.
Central Library call no.: P47/1/9-10, 21-23, 34, 36-37.
The parish church of Bromley is called St. Peter and St. Paul."