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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LizW29 on Thursday 09 August 12 07:01 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to find more information on Sarah Ann Beer who married Simeon Jennings in 1874 in Braidwood NSW. There don't appear to be any other Beers marrying in the area and no information on her parents for her marriage certificate.
The family moved around a fair bit once they were married, had one of their children in Echuca Victoria (Edward Simeon Jennings b. 1876) and others in Wagga Wagga and Albury (NSW). I understand there is a large Beer family in the Maldon area of Victoria, are there also Beers in Echuca? I haven't been able to find a birth record for Sarah Ann Beer in either NSW or Victoria that fits the time bracket.
There is a possible death date for her in 1942 in Hamilton NSW which lists her parents as John and Margaret, but I don't know of any family connections with the Hamilton area. Alternatives are:
- 1961 for Sarah Jennings parents Benjamin and Sarah in Rockdale,
- 1957 parents Joseph and Sarah in Parramatta,
- 1929 Sarah Jennings parents William (83 years) died in Blayney.
- 1938 parent Matthew and Mary Ann in Chatswood.
Her husband died in 1930 in Bankstown, so the Sydney deaths may be more likely.
One Sarah E Beer came as an assisted immigrant on the Parsee in 1859 with her family aged 1, but she would have to be 16 when she married (which is possible?!) (Father Thomas Beer aged 32, mother Sarah aged 35 and siblings Thomas age 8, Mary E 8). Thomas is listed as being a farm labourer from Somersetshire, his wife from Dorsetshire and children from Middlesex. Both parents are identified as being able to read and write and religion CoE.
There is also a Sarah Beer arriving to South Australia as an assisted immigrant in 1862 on the St John Lawrence from Plymouth, a servant aged 19 (so would be 33 when she married) from Calne in Wiltshire travelling with her brother Henry Beer aged 21 listed as a carpenter, also from Calne. This might be a possibility, but I think this family may have moved to New Zealand.
Any information or leads anyone has would be greatly appreciated!
Regards
Liz W
Australia.
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Her husband's funeral notice says he is buried at Rookwood (C of E). You could see if she was buried with him?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16680992
regards,
Ros
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There are probate packets at NSW State records http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au for :
Sarah Annie Jennings who died 16/5/1929
Sarah Ann Jennings who died 6/6/1961
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We can eliminate the Sarah Anne Jennings who died in 1961 as from her death notice she was wife of the late Charles Edward Jennings
regards,
Ros
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Hi,
I had a look on the online Rookwood cemetery records and it looks like she was buried with her husband in 1957, which means that her parents must have been Joseph and Sarah and she died in Parramatta :) Thanks for the ideas, I think I'll order the death certificate and see if that has anything more to go on :)
I can't find any records for births from a Joseph and Sarah Beer but there is a Thomas Beer with father Joseph and mother Sarah Beer who died in 1905 in Lismore who might be a relative.
Cheers
Liz
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For the Sarah Jennings who died in 1957, her death notice does not mention husband. She was the mother of Olga and mother-in-law of Bill
- does this info help rule her in/out?
regards,
Ros
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There were two Sarah Jennings who died in 1957, one Sarah Dorothy Jennings and the one with parents Joseph and Sarah. The interment date for Sarah Jennings buried in the same place as Simeon Jennings was 14 November 1957, is this the same as death notice for this one?
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Yes she died November 13 th, late of Punchbowl in SMH of 16 Nov
regards,
Ros
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Do you know about transcriptions of NSW certs? They cost about $17 and are e-mailed to you. http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
regards,
Ros
(I pm'd the grandchildren's names)
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Hi
This may help
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=monaropioneers&id=I156231
Muss
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Hi,
After receiving a transcription Sarah Ann Jennings (died 1957)'s death certificate it turns out she was Simeon Jennings (b.1851 Braidwood died 1930 Sydney) second wife, nee King and the daughter of Joseph King and Sarah McAliece of Kiama (the King family descends from a Moses King and Mary Wade/Wedd who came to NSW in 1832 from Tyrone, Nthern Ireland).
The Sarah Ann Jennings (Beer) I am descended from died in 1913 at Newtown, the daughter of John and Mary S. Beer and is buried in the methodist section of Rookwood cemetery. I think that she is probably the daughter of John Beer and Susannah Deacon from Trowbridge, Wiltshire who had several sons, John Beer b. around 1839 and Benjamin Beer b.17 May 1833 who both came to New South Wales and settled in the Goulburn/Lake Bathurst area. I understand Benjamin came out in 1851 on the 'Kate' occupation farmer/tanner and sponsored John's arrival in 1862 on the 'Coldstream' (occupation blacksmith). There is a Sarah Jane Beer b.September 1852 in Melksham, Wiltshire (Trowbridge is in the same are) who I think must be my ancestor.
John Beer (junior) sponsored Mary Ann Deacon and Harriet Deacon to immigrate to NSW in 1863 on the 'High Flyer'. I think Mary Ann Deacon may have had a child to him and was trying to get him to 'do the right thing by her'? They married in 1864 in Goulburn and had a number of children including Emily Jane b.1865 (married George Shoemark 1883 Goulburn died 1949 Goulburn (was the postmistress at Lake Bathurst for 50 years), Albert b.1875, Walter b.1877, Anna M b.1868, Oswald Havelock b.1870 died 1893, Arthur A b.1872 died 1941 Marrickville,and George W b.1878 died 1884 – all born in Goulburn. John Beer died in 1903 at Lake Bathurst aged 62 and his wife Mary A Beer died in 1891 aged 50.
I understand Benjamin Beer married twice, firstly to a Rhoda Jones in 1858 in Yass (surviving children James Beer b.1860, Joseph Beer b.1862, Alfred H. Beer b.1863, Jabez b.1865, Obadiah b.1867, Arthur Benjamin b.1869, Frederick William also 1869, Evangeline R b.1872, Fanny Benedicta b.1874 and Rhoda S b.1877). Rhoda Jones died in 1877 in Goulburn and Benjamin remarried in 1878 to Sarah Ann Charles (also in Goulburn) children John Ebenezer Beer b.1879, Ethel Florence b.1880, Edith May b.1883, Elsie Mary Rose b.1885, Ruby A. E b.1887 and Ada Lucy Vivian Mercy b.1890. Benjamin Beer died 16 December 1916 in Manly, NSW.
Other children of John Beer senior and Susannah Deacon (Rachel b.1828, James b.1832, Ann b.1835 and Martha b.1837) appear to have stayed in Trowbridge. John Beer senior died in 1870 and Susannah died in 1868, both in Trowbridge.
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Hi Liz,
The Sarah Jane BEER registered at Melksham in 1852 appears on the 1861 census with parents Thomas and Elizabeth.
I can't see any Sarah in the household of John and Susan on any census.
Debra :)
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QUOTE
I think that she is probably the daughter of John Beer and Susannah Deacon from Trowbridge, Wiltshire who had several sons, John Beer b. around 1839 and Benjamin Beer b.17 May 1833 who both came to New South Wales and settled in the Goulburn/Lake Bathurst area. I understand Benjamin came out in 1851 on the 'Kate' occupation farmer/tanner and sponsored John's arrival in 1862 on the 'Coldstream' (occupation blacksmith). There is a Sarah Jane Beer b.September 1852 in Melksham, Wiltshire End QUOTE
Firstly your Benjamin came on the same ship as my GGGrandfather Kate 1851.
Do you have a copy of the Passenger manifest?
Secondly I am aware of a fairly large family named Beer who's family has been in this (Port Stephens/Newcastle) area for many generations.
Neil
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Sorry, I'm a bit lost here :-\ Please correct me if I have missed something.
Your ancestor is Sarah Ann JENNINGS, died 1913 in Newtown with parents listed as John and Mary S BEER. You originally asked for information about a Sarah Ann JENNINGS who was the wife of a Simeon JENNINGS. The information given in the transcript of the death certificate for Sarah Ann JENNINGS died 1957 showed her parents as Joseph and Sarah KING of Kiama, so can we conclude that she is nothing to do with your ancestor Sarah Ann JENNINGS.
So are you now trying to find information about your Sarah Ann JENNINGS? Do you have some evidence that she is the daughter of John and Susan(nah) BEER of Trowbridge? Seems to me that it's possible that her parents are not that couple at all. Do you have her death certificate? What was her husband's name?
Please set me on the right track :-[
Judith
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Judith,
Simeon JENNINGS married firstly to Sarah Ann BEER in 1874 at Braidwood, and she died in 1913 at Newtown.
Simeon JENNINGS married secondly to Sarah KING in 1914 in Sydney (his first name is indexed online as "Eimeon").
The existence of the two Sarahs only came to light when Liz purchased the death cert for the second Sarah and found that she was Simeon's second wife.
The first Sarah, Sarah Ann BEER, is Liz's ancestor.
Sarah Ann BEER/JENNINGS' death cert should hopefully show her mother's correct maiden surname, but it can be a bit of a gamble.
I don't know where the marriage took place, but The Society of Aus. Genealogists have filmed the church registers for St Andrews Anglican at Braidwood and the registers should have her parents' names.
http://catalogue.sag.org.au/fullRecord.jsp?recnoListAttr=recnoList&recno=42620
Anglican Archives
http://archive.anglican.org.au/community.cfm?sid=16&ssid=96
JM's post about missing information on marriage certs in NSW
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
It is also a good idea to contact the Monaro Pioneers Database on the link given by Muss to correct the information that they have posted.
Debra :)
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it makes sense to me now!!
Thanks, Debra. :)
So, we still have no actual evidence of Sarah BEER's parents' names? With luck her death certificate may also show how long she had been 'in the colony', her age and even her place of birth.
Sorry to be so dense regarding this one! :-[
Judith
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I have today sent a email to the file controller of the Monaro Pioneer database to correct my own family file. It is surprising that some facts dont come to light unless through strange methods. I never thought that my family would be on just such a database. Worse to find that it was incorrect :o
I hope the OP gets to right her family file as well.
Thanks for jogging me into action Debra and a big thanks to Muss for supplying the link ;D
Neil ;)
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Hi
Just checked part of my family, that was also incorrect
Muss
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IF the NSW BDM is correct with the parents of Sarah A Jennings/Beer parents John and Mary beer then I may have them in the 1861 Census.
They are at.
36, Upper William Street
Parish Marylebone
District Marylebone, St John, London, Middlesex.
Head John L Beer b1824, Cordwainer, Wife Mary b1826, John J b1847 errand boy, Sarah b 1851, Catherine b1853, Elizabeth 1855 and William b1861.
As with most of these census birth years they all seem wrong.
In the 1871 census they are at,
Benjamin Street
Parish St Sepulchre Middlesex
District Holborn, Saffron Hill, London, Middlesex.
John and Mary young William who is now 14 years old b 1857??, also is new children Annie 1864 and Frederick 1870.
I cannot find them on 1881.
Neil
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Hi
On First Familes 2001 there is John Beer and his wife Mary Ann Gar(r)ard arriving 1840 on the James Pattison John died 1885 Mary Ann died 1868 Marrickville NSW
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/search.html
Muss
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I am beginning to think that there is a long way to go to sort out this family!
I think there are a lot of Beer relatives in the Goulburn area including the Grandfather and Uncles and Aunts of Sarah Beer born in London to John and Mary Beer, along with a high number of Cousins. :P
My research for what it is, ::) points to the parents of John Beer c1824 coming out first c 1845 then the Grandson John J Beer coming c1863 then the rest of the family c1872. :o
I believe John Beer the father of Sarah ran a shop in the Goulburn area went broke around 1886 and died around 1904. Sarah's Mother Mary Ann died Kiama 1891.
There is more to do!
Neil ;)
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Neil, could you please post the
Household schedule number:
Piece:
Folio:
Page Number:
for the 1861 census entry?
I cannot get them to come up on the search although I saw that family the other day, when it did come up ::) ??? >:(
Cheers, Judith
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My Census search on Genes Reunited does not show these Judith? I dont have ancestry!
On the bottom of the original page it has Ref ....RG.. 9.. 88
It also has John Snr Birth place and Mary's as Ireland ???
Neil
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IF the NSW BDM is correct with the parents of Sarah A Jennings/Beer parents John and Mary beer then I may have them in the 1861 Census.
They are at.
36, Upper William Street
Parish Marylebone
District Marylebone, St John, London, Middlesex.
Head John L Beer b1824, Cordwainer, Wife Mary b1826, John J b1847 errand boy, Sarah b 1851, Catherine b1853, Elizabeth 1855 and William b1861.
As with most of these census birth years they all seem wrong.
In the 1871 census they are at,
Benjamin Street
Parish St Sepulchre Middlesex
District Holborn, Saffron Hill, London, Middlesex.
John and Mary young William who is now 14 years old b 1857??, also is new children Annie 1864 and Frederick 1870.
I cannot find them on 1881.
Neil
I doubt that these are the same family - different places of birth and the 1871 John BEER is a brass finisher not a cordwainer, who is still in London in 1881.
I would even question whether the surname is BEER on the 1861 entry. (RGD9 Piece 88 Folio 63 Page 41) Looks like REES to me.
The John BEER who arrived as a single man in 1863 is as Liz has detailed in her previous post - from Trowbridge, Wiltshire, son of John and Susan, brother of Benjamin and Mary Ann (married surname LONG). The Mary Ann BEER who died in 1891 was his wife.
The John BEER who Muss mentioned arrived in 1840 on the James Pattison, aged 30, from Ilminster, Somerset, wife Mary (m.s. GERARD), children John, George and Harriet.
Debra :)
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Oh well i tried ::)
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Hi,
Thank you for all the suggestions and responses - apologies for lack of clarity in earlier posts as well. Someone else outlined the scenario correctly from my understanding:
My ancestor Simeon JENNINGS (b.1851 Braidwood died 1930 Sydney) married twice:
1) Sarah Ann BEER in 1874 in Braidwood.
2) Sarah Ann KING (daughter of Joseph KING and Sarah Macleice) married 1915 Sydney. Sarah Ann KING died in 1957 and is buried with Simeon JENNINGS at Rookwood (same grave). I wasn't aware of the second marriage until I got a death certificate transcription for Sarah Ann KING, as both wives had the same first names!
Simeon JENNINGs and Sarah Ann BEER had children in Braidwood and Wagga in NSW and Echuca in Vic (including my g-g-g grandfather Edward Simeon Jennings b.1878).
Sarah Ann BEER (died 15 February 1913 in Marrickville NSW and is buried in Methodist Section Rookwood Cemetery. Her parents' names are listed on the NSW index as John and Mary S. I'm waiting on her death certificate at the moment to find out what her mother's maiden name was and whether she was born in England or Australia. I was hazarding a guess that the BEER family in the Goulburn/Lake Bathurst region were her relatives given the location, but on second thoughts it is probably best to clarify through the death certificate.
I'll let you know when I get the death certificate for Ms Beer and if there is any joy about her ancestry! The Goulburn Beer family are quite interesting in their own right, apparently distantly related to a Sir Henry Havelock who fought in Indian military campaigns in the early 1800s.
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I am currently working on Sarah Ann Charles who married Benjamin Beer at Goulburn in 1878 if anyone is interested. His father was Thomas Beer son of John Beer of Wiltshire.
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I am tracing some Deacon families from Trowbridge, Wiltshire, who may be related.
Mary Ann Deacon born Trowbridge in 1838 had a son John Henry Deacon before March 1864. John Beer born 1840 Trowbridge, parents John Beer and Susanna Deacon, came out to New South Wales late in 1863 on the "Coldstream". John paid for Mary Ann Deacon and her son John Henry to come out to NSW, and they married in 1864. John Henry was known as John Henry Beer on later records so it appears he was John Beer's son.
John's brother Benjamin had come out earlier, in 1851, and paid for John to come out.
Their sister Mary Ann Beer married Simeon Long in 1855, and they came out to Victoria in 1856, Mary Ann died in 1895 at Macorna, and Simeon married Mary Emma Ovenden in 1896.
I would like to hear from anyone who has more information on the Deacon connections (I have quite a bit on the children of John Beer and Susanna Deacon, and their marriage date in 1826 in Trowbridge).
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Hi RayHayes
Is there a Sarah BEER among the children of John and Susannah?
It would be nice to know what was on the certificate that LizW29 was hoping for but I see that she has not logged in since October.
Judith
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Hi Judith,
Not that I have found, not in the 1841 or 1851 or 1861 census records.
John and Susanna married on 25 Dec 1826 at Trowbridge.
From the census records I have;
Rachel c 1828
James c 1829
Thomas c 1832
Benjamin 1833 - Came to NSW
Mary Ann 1835 - Came to VIC
Martha c 1838
John 1840 - Came to NSW
Births/baptisms for that period are not in the IGI, and I don't have access to those records, but if there was a Sarah I would have hoped to see her in one of the census records.
Regards Ray
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Hi,
I've been offline doing other things for the last couple of months, but have received Sarah Ann's death certificate. Just to make things more confusing, her maiden name on the death certificate is not Beer at all, but Moore (father John Moore, gardener and mother Mary Susan Moore) from Kingsbridge, Devonshire. Estimated birthdate for Sarah Ann Moore is 1849, and suggested arrival date in Australia was around 1865?
I think the family lived in Plymouth, John Moore was born in South Pool, Devon and working as a master gardener in 1861, other children Elizabeth, John and Bessey Moore).I can't find any record of the Moore family coming to Australia in the 1860s, census records (apart from Sarah) suggest they remained in Plymouth.
So either she came out with another family, married briefly to someone called Beer before marrying Simeon Jennings in 1874? Beer may have been a corruption of Moore in the first place!
So looks like she wasn't related to the Wiltshire Beer family after all :( A cautionary tale in checking primary sources first. Any leads on the Kingsbridge/South Pool Moore family would be greatly appreciated (hopefully this is the right one this time!)
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This may be her birth reg. and will give her mother's maiden surname
Births March Quarter 1849
MOORE, Sarah Ann
Kingsbridge
Vol. 9
Page 425
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
In 1851 she may have been a boarder, aged 2, with George PER(R)ATON, wife Harriet and children at South Milton, Devon. Parents deceased perhaps?
HO/107
Piece: 1875
Folio: 377
Page Number: 7
Maybe put a post on the Devon board first to see if anyone has access to baptisms for Kingsbridge.
Debra :D
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I think the family lived in Plymouth, John Moore was born in South Pool, Devon and working as a master gardener in 1861, other children Elizabeth, John and Bessey Moore).I can't find any record of the Moore family coming to Australia in the 1860s, census records (apart from Sarah) suggest they remained in Plymouth.
I don't think this is your family. If you have a look at the previous census in 1851 the children all have the middle initial "P" which you will find on FreeBMD stands for PERRING. Sarah is "Sarah J.P." and this is her birth:
Births December Quarter 1846
MOORE, Sarah Jane Perring
Plymouth
Vol. 9
Page 402
Debra :D