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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: sallymaclean on Thursday 09 August 12 04:26 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
I've hit a brick wall with my McClean family from Belfast. I've tried a few of the "pay per view" and "subscription" sites but have had no luck.
Looking for a marriage of Daniel McClean to Sarah Nevin c1820 in Belfast and their children's baptisms from then. I know of a few (dates may be dodgy) William Nevin (1824), Hugh (1825 died 1848), Robert (1831 died 1869) and Mary Jane (not known)
According to burials at Clifton Street Cemetery - Daniel died 1866 aged 86 born Belfast (c1780) and Sarah died 1841 aged 45 born Belfast (c1796).
Daniel was a Publican most of his life and was Masonic Knight. Living at Breda Lodge, Newtownbreda when he died. Many of his descendants (from William) called their homes in Australia "Breda Lodge" after his home so there must have been pleasant memories.
I've been unable to find any baptisms or marriages for any of them and believe they were Protestants.
Any advise or help would be much appreciated.
Many thanks, Sally
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I don't know when and where Daniel McClean and Sarah Nevin were married, but they are listed in the famous Orr Pedigrees, the original handwritten MS of which is in the Linen Hall library in Belfast. I have a copy of the privately-printed book based on the MS which was produced by the American genealogist Ray A. Jones.
Daniel McClean gets into the book by virtue of his mother Janet ORR, who was married to William McClean of Ballykeel. William and Janet's children were:-
Elizabeth McClean, married John Anderson of Ballinafoy.
Daniel McClean (of Belfast), married Sarah Nevin.
James McClean of Ballinafoy, married 1. Mary McIlveen, 2. Constant Peppard, 3. Betty Hyndman.
John McClean.
Margaret McClean, married William Trimble of Ballinafoy.
Sarah McClean.
The ORR side of the family-tree can be traced back to James Orr and Janet McClement, who moved to Ulster from somewhere in Scotland circa 1607. Some of my ancestors are in there too.
Harry
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Hi there Harry
Thank you so much for post, it was Fathers Day here in Australia but I got the best present of all!
I assumed the family had come from Scotland at some stage but had never expected to find out when or how but your little gem gave me such an unexpected bonus. I've had a quick look and there is quite a lot of information about the Montgomery Settlement which I will now study with great interest.
Would I be stretching the friendship by asking you to fill in the names between the original settlers James Orr and Janet McClement down to Janet Orr who married William McClean?
By the way, their grandson (our ancestor) William Nevin McClean emigrated to Australia in 1853 and began using the spelling Maclean for their surname. His eldest son's name was Frederick William Orr Maclean. We had not traced the family back past Daniel so had no idea where the "Orr" had come from but thanks to you, now we do.
With much appreciation for taking the time to post your message, hope the names I'm asking for are not too hard to find.
Sally
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The Belfast Newsletter at the time of Daniel McClean's death confirms that he died at Breda Lodge but describes it as the residence of his son in law Mr William McKeown esq., who is in the same paper on another date described as the chairman of the farmers fairs and markets reform committee.
The same paper announces William McKeown's death at Breda Lodge in 1879 and if you go and look at the PRONI website you can see his will making reference to wife Eleanor. Did Daniel have a daughter Eleanor?
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Hi there Harry
Thank you so much for post, it was Fathers Day here in Australia but I got the best present of all!
I assumed the family had come from Scotland at some stage but had never expected to find out when or how but your little gem gave me such an unexpected bonus. I've had a quick look and there is quite a lot of information about the Montgomery Settlement which I will now study with great interest.
Would I be stretching the friendship by asking you to fill in the names between the original settlers James Orr and Janet McClement down to Janet Orr who married William McClean?
By the way, their grandson (our ancestor) William Nevin McClean emigrated to Australia in 1853 and began using the spelling Maclean for their surname. His eldest son's name was Frederick William Orr Maclean. We had not traced the family back past Daniel so had no idea where the "Orr" had come from but thanks to you, now we do.
With much appreciation for taking the time to post your message, hope the names I'm asking for are not too hard to find.
Sally
I'm glad my info. was of interest. The "Orr Pedigrees" is a great source of information about settler families in Co. Down. It mentions 501 different surnames!
The line of descent from James Orr and Janet McClement down to William McClean and Janet Orr is as follows:-
James Orr and Janet McClement had a son called
William Orr, of Clantinacally (1626-1714) who married Janet Gray. They had a son called
William Orr, of Ballybeen (1659-1730) who married Agnes Boyd (1670-1741). They had a son called
John Orr, of Tullyhubert, who married Mary McKibbin. Their son
James Orr, of Tullyhubert and Ballygowan (b.circa 1728, died 25 April 1803) married Elizabeth Reid (b. circa 1729, died 26 December 1774). Their daughter
Janet Orr married William McClean of Ballykeel, and their son
Daniel McClean married Sarah Nevin.
The only other Nevin I have come across is a minister who was sent to Comber to settle a dispute. My ancestor James Orr of Munlough took one look at him and said, "Are you Nevin the minister? Ye are more like a mountebank!", for which he was made to apologise by the kirk session!
Harry
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Many thanks Gaffy and Harry for the posts.
That's interesting information regarding Breda Lodge being the home of William McKeown. I'm not aware of Daniel having a daughter named Eleanor but it's sounding highly likely. I've only been able to find William Nevin, Hugh, Robert and Mary Jane so far but this gives me another clue to the giant puzzle that is my family tree!!!
Harry, that's wonderful to be treated to 6 generations in one hit! I now have lots of new families to explore but I think I'll have to visit "The Ards" one day to get a real feel for the area. Seems the families stayed close to home for many generations.
Sounds like you have found some little gems like that amusing reference to Nevin the Minister!
Thanks again
Sally
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William McKeown, farmer, is listed at Breda Lodge in the 1861 street directory.
He's also listed at Breda Lodge in the 1877 directory under Galwally:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1877VD.htm
And if you look up Griffiths Valuation under Breda townland in the parish of Knockbreda, you will see him spelled as 'William McKeon', farming 16 acres with the name 'Breda Lodge' against him.
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As mentioned, the Belfast Newsletter of 1879 reports William McKeown's death. It mentions that he is to be buried in Ballylesson. There is a grave in Drumbo Church of Ireland Ballylesson that contains several McKeowns including a William McKeown who died on 13 April 1859 aged 78 - it also contains his wife Eleanor who died on 27 August 1881 aged 60. Given that the Belfast Newsletter reports William's death as having taken place on 13 April 1879 and given the confirmation of his wife's forename, I think the 1859 date from the grave has been mistranscribed (ie. should read 1879) and that this is indeed William McKeown of Breda Lodge, son of Hugh and Letitia McKeown from Newtownards born circa 1801, together with wife Eleanor born circa 1821.
Armed with the details of Eleanor's death, you should be aware that there is a digitised will on the PRONI website for an Eleanor McKeown who died on... 27 August 1881. It confirms that she's from Newtownbreda, mentions sister Mary Jane Lang (I think), sister Jemima McClean and other relatives including some in Sydney Australia. I won't spoil it for you, go look.
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Regarding the Mary Jane Lang reference in the Eleanor McKeown will, the Belfast Newsletter of Friday 17 November 1837 has a reference to an Alexander Lang of Jervis Street in Dublin marrying Mary Jane McClean, the eldest daughter of Daniel McClean of Ann St. in Belfast. The marriage took place in Dublin Presbyterian church on the 9th November. Incidentally, there is a will index entry on the PRONI website for an Alexander Lang, Asst. Inspector GPO in Dublin and living at Ballynafeigh, who died on the 1st June 1879 and it mentions his widow Mary Jane. The will image isn't online, you would need to order it from PRONI.
If this is the right Lang, it means that Eleanor McClean McKeown and Mary Jane McClean Lang both lost their husbands within a couple of months of each other.
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William McKeown, farmer, is listed at Breda Lodge in the 1861 street directory.
He's also listed at Breda Lodge in the 1877 directory under Galwally:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1877VD.htm
And if you look up Griffiths Valuation under Breda townland in the parish of Knockbreda, you will see him spelled as 'William McKeon', farming 16 acres with the name 'Breda Lodge' against him.
The Orr Pedigrees book mentions a James McKean of Belfast who married Elizabeth Orr of Ballyalloly, but I don't know if he would be of the McKeon family or not. Some of these spellings are very unstable.
Another prominent McClean was Adam McClean who donated land he owned in the Markets area of Belfast for the building of St. Malachy's church, which at one time was intended to be the city's RC cathedral. McClean himself was a Protestant. I got that from J.C. Beckett et.al. (eds.) "Belfast - The Making of a City" (Appletree Press, 1983).
Incidentally, the spelling McClean is typical of Ulster - in Scotland it's McLean. I think it was Ulster folk who took the McClean spelling to America.
It's fascinating how some people never stir far from their origins, while others emigrate at an early date. Some years ago I was contacted by a Presbyterian minister's wife in Co. Down who is related to me on the Orr side, and her husband's manse is only a few hundred yards from the churchyard where her ancestors and mine are buried. She sent me pictures of some headstones. Yet my Co. Down great-great-grandmother was brought over to Scotland by her widowed mother in the 1830s, so all memory of Ulster ancestors had died out in my family until I did some genealogical research.
Harry
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Regarding the Mary Jane Lang reference in the Eleanor McKeown will, the Belfast Newsletter of Friday 17 November 1837 has a reference to an Alexander Lang of Jervis Street in Dublin marrying Mary Jane McClean, the eldest daughter of Daniel McClean of Ann St. in Belfast. The marriage took place in Dublin Presbyterian church on the 9th November. Incidentally, there is a will index entry on the PRONI website for an Alexander Lang, Asst. Inspector GPO in Dublin and living at Ballynafeigh, who died on the 1st June 1879 and it mentions his widow Mary Jane. The will image isn't online, you would need to order it from PRONI.
If this is the right Lang, it means that Eleanor McClean McKeown and Mary Jane McClean Lang both lost their husbands within a couple of months of each other.
The reference to Daniel McClean of Ann St. ties in with the 1819 Belfast street directory showing Daniel at no. 65 Ann Street.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1819_Alphanames.htm
I just walked past that location within the last hour coming from work. All old buildings long gone now of course, but funny to think that almost 200 hundred years ago Daniel was serving folks at that spot.
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That street directory is a great asset, but frustrating for me as the Mu- section is missing so I can't look up my Murray ancestors. However, Martin's Belfast Directory for 1841-42 lists a William Murray, stone cutter, at 50 Scot's Row and I think he is either my 4 x great-grandfather William Murray, "stonemason", in old age, or his son.
William Murray's son-in-law Archibald Petticrew, my 3 x great-grandfather, was a joiner in Belfast and I like to think that the two men helped to build the expanding city in the early 1800s. Maybe they first met on a building-site?
Harry
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I am extremely grateful to you both Harry and Gaffy for the wonderful bits of information that keep coming. My family is taking shape nicely and the PRONI website certainly has a lot more on it than I thought. I managed to find the will of the spinster sister Jemima who died in 1887. (oddly she bequeathed money to her sister Eleanor McClean McKeown who had died 6 years earlier! - I will read it again and look into that further)
So the family now looks like this
Children of Daniel McClean and Sarah Nevin
Mary Jane (c1819 - aft1887) m Alexander Lang
Eleanor (c1821 - 1881) m William McKeown
William Nevin (c 1824 - 1905) m Marianne Browne
Hugh (c1825 - 1848)
Robert (c1831 - 1869)
Jemima (? - 1887)
My husband's great aunt never married and devoted her life to her Maclean Family History. She provided me with everything she knew. She only knew of William and Mary Jane. I only found Hugh and Robert recently when I found they were buried with their father Daniel in the family plot at Clifton Street Cemetery.
Gaffy, you seem to be have access to a lot of Belfast information such as the Belfast Newsletter. I have seen it on Ancestry but it is not indexed. How are you finding references so quickly???
Your comment about walking past Daniel's old home/pub in Anne Street gave me goosebumps!
I am appreciating and enjoying all the pieces of information that you're both posting and I'm learning so much about the Belfast area.
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The Martin's Belfast Directory which I mentioned before lists 8 individuals called McClean living in Belfast in 1841-42, including a Daniel McClean at 9 Lower Chichester Street.
A James McClean is a ship owner and general merchant, and a Francis Robert McClean is a solicitor with two addresses, presumably work and home. Another James McClean is a flesher and publican.
Harry
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Hi Harry
I'm thinking that the McCleans listed in the directories may be brothers or nephews of our Daniel as the names keep repeating themselves. One James may be the brother you listed in your first post (who married 3 times) and the others may be his sons.
I believe Presbyterians named their children strongly after their family names - I have one great example of that, my Andrew Alexander family from Glendermott Londonderry had 10 children and each one named their first born son after their father Andrew - must have been fun at family gatherings! At least the sons of the female Alexanders had different surnames!
The Adam McClean you referred to is a mystery, that name hasn't come up before but he may be a brother of Daniel's father William named from his mother's side.
The 1805 directory has only these 3 entries for McClean
McClean, S. and A., merchants, (1) Sugar House Entry writing
McClean, William, spirit merchant, 188 North Street - (I believe this is probably Daniel's father)
McClean, Adam, woollen draper, 68 High Street
Is this one of your Murrays from the same directory?
Murray, Timothy, soap and candle manufacturer, 172 North Street (just a few houses from William!!!!)
My great aunt claimed a connection to the Lindsay Spinning Mills of Belfast but she had no hard evidence. Maybe the connection is through Adam as he seems to be in that trade in all references to him.
I haven't found any information on the mill myself but I know the industry was huge at that time, probably just one of many.
Thank you for taking such an interest in my family.
Sally
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Information removed
Daniel's pub at 65 Ann Street (as per the 1819 directory) would have sat right on the corner of Ann Street and Victoria Street, there is nothing there now bar the ugly wall of a large police base (Musgrave Street Police Station). Back then, that end of Ann Street was very much in the thick of the river inlets, with the Blackstaff running off the Lagan parallel to the street 100 yards south and the Farset running off the Lagan parallel to the street 100 yards north (ie. along High Street). All of this is virtually unidentifiable today as the river inlets have long been culverted over, but if you look at this link, there are references to this general area and there's a little colour painting of High Street in particular which would have been done in the first half of the 1800s which gives you a sense of what the area was like - Ann Street ran parallel to this about 100 yards to the right of the painting.
http://niarchive.org/trails/maritime-belfast/
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Hi Harry
I'm thinking that the McCleans listed in the directories may be brothers or nephews of our Daniel as the names keep repeating themselves. One James may be the brother you listed in your first post (who married 3 times) and the others may be his sons.
I believe Presbyterians named their children strongly after their family names - I have one great example of that, my Andrew Alexander family from Glendermott Londonderry had 10 children and each one named their first born son after their father Andrew - must have been fun at family gatherings! At least the sons of the female Alexanders had different surnames!
The Adam McClean you referred to is a mystery, that name hasn't come up before but he may be a brother of Daniel's father William named from his mother's side.
The 1805 directory has only these 3 entries for McClean
McClean, S. and A., merchants, (1) Sugar House Entry writing
McClean, William, spirit merchant, 188 North Street - (I believe this is probably Daniel's father)
McClean, Adam, woollen draper, 68 High Street
Is this one of your Murrays from the same directory?
Murray, Timothy, soap and candle manufacturer, 172 North Street (just a few houses from William!!!!)
My great aunt claimed a connection to the Lindsay Spinning Mills of Belfast but she had no hard evidence. Maybe the connection is through Adam as he seems to be in that trade in all references to him.
I haven't found any information on the mill myself but I know the industry was huge at that time, probably just one of many.
Thank you for taking such an interest in my family.
Sally
Well, through the Orr connection we are all one big family.
My Murray connection is through 3 x great-grandmother Jane Murray who was married to Archibald Petticrew, joiner in Belfast and Orr descendant. He seems to have died sometime between 1832 and 1838 when Jane remarries in Dumfries, Scotland. She ends up in Hawick with her new husband and the children of her first marriage, and sadly she ends her days in the poorhouse in Jedburgh, a widow for the second time. The only good thing about that, from my point of view, is that poorhouse superintendents kept files on the inmates' family background and origins, so there is a very detailed death-certificate telling me that Jane's parents were William Murray, stonemason, and Nancy Howat, something that Jane's own children probably wouldn't have known. There is some evidence that they may have lived in the Ballymacarrett area of Belfast.
Harry
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Sorry about resurrecting an old thread, but I just came across it.
The "McClean's" listed in the 1805 directory Andrew, Samuel, William & Adam, were four of seven brothers who made their way independently to Belfast during the last quarter of the eighteenth century. The other three were John, James & Francis. They were from & born at Shane's Castle.
The solicitor Francis Robert McClean was Adams' son. The two addresses given were his practices, he lived in the family home at 4 Donegal Square South.
I don't know much about William apart from what is listed in the directories, ie he was a spirit dealer and Collector of Taxes. It seems possible he is the father of your Daniel, but he was definitely not from Ballykeel. All became successful merchants and dabbled in real estate, perhaps after establishing himself William purchased the Ballykeel property?
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Hi Sally,
I thought I had posted this reply yesterday but, being new to the site, I must have pushed a wrong button somewhere.
I am descended from Daniel McClean, as a great great great grandson, via William Nevin/Marianne Browne. They had 3 children, Sarah Leila Elizabeth (born in Belfast), Frederick Orr (born in Melbourne, Aus., birthname William De Wilton) and, my great grandfather, Sidney Hugh (born in Sydney, Aus., birthname William Hugh). By an extraordinary coincidence I had lunch yesterday with another of Daniel's descendants, a Richard MacLean whose great great grandfather was Frederick Orr MacLean. It was our first face to face meeting and we, naturally, discussed our families' lineage, which is how I stumbled across your post in this site, searching the net for "Breda Lodge" in Belfast. Sarah and her husband John Charles Lovell owned a Breda Lodge in Croydon, NSW. However, Richard has a much greater knowledge of our Family history than I do and I have sent him a link to your post. You will undoubtedly hear from him sooner rather than later and he may have the answer you were looking for in your original post.
Warren
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Sorry Sally, I just had an email from Richard to say you are his cousin's wife, so you probably know as much as each other.
Warren
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Hi all of you wonderful McClean researchers, I have just stumbled upon you all after receiving an Ancestry message from Richard McClean regarding how I am connected with the family. Well I am the gt gt gt grandaughter of Margaret McClean (1786-1864) and William Trimble.(1787 – 1861) Margaret being the sister of Daniel McClean. (Richard's direct ancestor) Whilst I have a lot of info on the Trimble side of the family I had hit a big brick wall with Margaret's side
So I am very excited to find you all and fill in the gaps, it is going to take hours and lots of cups of tea I feel. I am still amazed at the connections that can develop after just one small contact with someone.
Please also let me know if I can assist with the Trimble clan
Vicki
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Hi Vicki. Daniels father's (William McClean) family plot is in Old Rashee cemetery, Co. Antrim. details at
http://www.doaghancestry.co.uk/churches-graveyards/rashee-old-graveyard-co-antrim/
and
http://www.discovereverafter.com/plot/156447
regards John
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Thanks for that John, I will take a look
cheers
Vicki
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Hi, Vicki,
If you have been in contact with Richard McLean I don't know what else I might be able to add, not knowing how much info he has given you. I am descended from Daniel via his grandson, Sydney Hugh McClean and I am therefore Richard's second cousin once removed (I think). I noted with interest your mention of the Trimbles and I have a couple of photos in my computer files showing Ethel Trimble, Mrs Rutter (her sister) and Margaret Trimble, noted as the late Pesey Trimble's daughter, a chap identified only as "me" and Ellen. "Me" looks like someone in another photo identified as John B Kinship. I've absolutely no knowledge of these people and would appreciate your information. I have numerous photos of someone's time in Ireland and would be happy to email them across as I have difficulty with this website.
regards, Warren McLean
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Vicki,
as a P.S., you might want to check out my reply to Sally above. Warren
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Thanks Warren. Done that!!, Ive read and re-read all the posts, great stuff.
I am not familiar with the Trimble names that you mention, but haven't got my tree open in front of me so will get back to you if I find some in common. I would love to see your photos, how do I send you my email address privately from this site??
I am now trying to work out how far removed as cousins you and Richard are from me, I'm sure that will have me in a complete muddle before the evening is over ;D
Vicki
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Greetings to all from Australia. I have come into this conversation on a slightly different line - William Trimble and Margaret McLean. I am trying to find evidence of their marriage as I have a distant connection to one of their sons, William. They are the parents of William Trimble 1819 - 1890 and Robert Trimble 1824 - 1899. Robert Trimble is quite well known as Colonel Robert Trimble, Judge of the Native Land Court New Zealand but they both ended up there.
William's (1819 - 1890) married Mary Ann White in 1843 at Tyrone and although his death certificate does not give his parents names, his obit says he was born near Belfast 1819. Brother Robert's death certificate has more info thankfully - Parents William Trimble and Margaret Maclane and also says he was born near Belfast. So I ma thinking the Trimbles are Belfast based and the McLeans are Tyrone based.
I did find this newspaper entry -Margaret Trimble relict of the late William Trimble died at Strabane aged 78 years June 12 1864 The Belfast News-Letter (Belfast, Ireland), Wednesday, June 15, 1864; Issue 32804 There seems to be a lot of men called William Trimble around at that time so I am not sure it is her although the link to Tyrone seems to substantiate it and it looks like Vicki agrees.
I thought perhaps Vicki and I should swap notes?
regards
Lyn
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Hello People interested in the McCleans of Belfast, Resurrecting this old thread, as I was so overjoyed to find it and want to thank you all. Plus I have a tidbit of extra news.
I'm a great great great granddaughter of Daniel McClean. His son William McClean came to Australia and the name was changed there to Maclean. When William died, whoever did his death certificate, put his occupation down as "Surgeon, Belfast". This has caused a lot of dire searching because as I now know, Daniel was in fact a publican. Surgeon in those days was possibly what we know as a barber these days - so we've been heading down a lot of fruitless rabbit holes, until I saw these posts from a few years ago.
What I've been able to do is follow the entire circle to the probate where money was inherited through Daniel's daughter to William's descendants in Australia (of whom I have a better knowledge). This was a profound connecting of the dots. So thank you all for your contributions.
What I'm writing about today is to let anyone who is interested know, that I found a newspaper article - a death notice of 5 March 1830 - where it appears Daniel lost a young son of 10 years of age to an illness of "decline". Could have been any number of illnesses that we now have modern treatment for. Anyway just thought I'd put that here in case anyone needs to update their records.
The notice was via the British Newspaper Archive, and appeared in the Belfast News-Letter of Friday 5 March 11830